How should conflict be introduced within the Alliance?

[theun]

Dwarves had a potential to bring internal conflic, but then High Chin appears and saves the day. All praise King Varian!

On more serious note I have 3 ideas:

- For worgen to act on thier own, and try to retake the Gilneas, they could blame Varian for doing nothig in this regard, and take a chunk of people to fight on their own.

- For night elves to have people trying to dethrone Tyrande and Malfurion, with Maiev to be the one who initiated it. Night elves are desperate to get fresh blood and end their stagnation. There are many things from the past that haven't been adressed yet. And it would be great opportiunity to get some flash on old dirts.

- for gnomes to get unique hero. Someone who is not so goodie, someone who would made a mess just to get some gain from it. Perhaps seeing Aliance in small chaos would help him achieve something he wanted, perhaps to find something he was looking for. Maybe a copy of Millhouse Manastorm, but I'd like for him to be less a comic relief and more someone who could actually be creepy.

These are my ideas. Feel free to elaborate xD

Problem with 2 of those are, they've been done not too long ago.
The Night Elves trying to dethrone Malfurion were Staghelm and the NE who followed him in worshipping Ragnaros in Cataclysm.
You could have another group try again only without any outside influences but then what advantages would they have? The rest of the Alliance sure ain't gonna stab Malfurion in the back.

And the Gnomes, Thermaplugg was that Gnome. What was such a big deal about Thermaplugg was that he was the only Gnome who harbored selfish desires to take power in a race whose society had always valued trust and teamwork above all else. And from Gelbin's story he has not too long ago been dealt with. I don't see them pulling another Thermaplugg character in so soon.

[Ramz]

Problem with 2 of those are, they've been done not too long ago.
The Night Elves trying to dethrone Malfurion were Staghelm and the NE who followed him in worshipping Ragnaros in Cataclysm.
You could have another group try again only without any outside influences but then what advantages would they have? The rest of the Alliance sure ain't gonna stab Malfurion in the back.

And the Gnomes, Thermaplugg was that Gnome. What was such a big deal about Thermaplugg was that he was the only Gnome who harbored selfish desires to take power in a race whose society had always valued trust and teamwork above all else. And from Gelbin's story he has not too long ago been dealt with. I don't see them pulling another Thermaplugg character in so soon.

I had on my mind more subtle approach. Nothing revolutionary, but something that would slowly build up, like lifespan of 2 expansions. And I haven't meant the gnome like Thermaplugg, something that isn't entierly evil, but someone who has his own agenda. With Night elves, it can also slowly build up, nothing radical that have to happen right here and right now. I believe that good story takes time to establish certain things.

[Deleted]

The problem is that conflict already exists in the Alliance, but Blizzard usually doesn't put it in the light until some patch when all if fixed instantly.

Let me give you a few examples:
-gnomes, you had the idea of them trying to retake gnomeregan, no nothing about that until you got a patch where they retook the door mat. Then nothing again.
-night elves, you had Fandral that wanted a return to old night elf ways... suddenly he did, and was killed in 1 patch. Now there's Maiev... but where is she? nobody knows, probably we'll get it in 1 patch and end it for her too.
-as for conflict between races, check worgen vs humans humans didn't want Gilneas into the Alliance because Gilneas left the old Alliance. Awesome, a chance to create some conflict! No, Varian and Genn went hunting and it was fixed, then everyone was friends with everyone, no regular human ever blamed Gilneas for leaving the Alliance, no Gilnean ever blamed humans for letting the orcs live. See, this is not normal. You can still squeeze a few individuals here and there complaining how the other side sucks or something.
- there's also things that were toned down to make a race fit in the Alliance more. For example night elves. Not particularly xenophobic as some say, but extremely territorial and nationalistic, they were "our land for our people" kind of civilization. You could still see remnants of this in Classic, where 2 human paladins sat at Maestra's Post and talked about how hard it was to adapt and make the night elves accept them. Yet suddenly, everyone's welcome in night elf lands! There's gnomes building machines of war, there's worgen running rampart etc.
"But it's a war" - indeed it is, do you remember in WC3 when Garithos allied with Sylvannas and when they were done he was like "well, thanks for the help, now get the fuck out", yea, this is how I imagine night elves to be, not particularly racist, but "my land for my people, others get out even if they're allies, it's ok to visit, but not to encroach on it". Blizzard could work a whole on this angle... but they made the night elves accept everyone and be complacent and submissive to Varian to further his character.

If we look on the Horde side, what makes them interesting is that Blizzard did not do these things:
-the Warsong have not listened of Thrall several times
-there's guys like Saurfang or Vol'jin openly threatening the warchief for they dislike his rule
-the forsaken were not toned down, merely made to hide their things. They didn't stop using the plague or raising the dead because Garrosh told them so, they just didn't do it as openly for all other races to see... while Garrosh was in charge.
Things like this. So, overall, conflict exists in the Alliance, it's just ignored. Look at the perfect example, the dwarves... they have these 3 clans that mostly hate one another... but they work together perfectly besides that scenario (which was made again to further Varian's plot)? What? No! It shouldn't be like that. I'm not saying that they should fight at every corner, but some NPCs expressing disdain towards those "filthy" black dwarves... sounds like racism, doesn't it? Makes you wonder, are they right or wrong. I still remember how, when I got to the first Alliance base in Hellfire there's this dwarf that was talking about how the Alliance lost the high elves and got these "weird purple elves". These things should be still presented, these show that the population doesn't get along like 2 peas in a pod.

Some conflicts that could be developed:
-night elves having Maiev return, only to have a cadre want her back yet again as she preaches of how the night elves lost their traditions and now use their armies to help the Alliance while Ashenvale burns - this is something that could actually be realistic, for I doubt night elves who have lived using the same principles for 10k years are ok with mages, letting other races trample their forest, getting their armies to go in places they have no care about etc and Tyrande and Malfurion would be forced to accept Maiev yet again to not create civil war.
-humans having some believe that humans are better than other races, this could create a whole deal of conflicts
-dwarves having their racial tensions brought back to light
-worgen having Crowley return to not being so friendly with Genn now that the war is over and the worgen - human conflict I explained earlier
-draenei having a faction start the idea that they should also learn fel magic for you can only fight fire with fire
-gnomes complaining that other factions are weak because they don't chose leaders only on merit, as they do and the other races bringing up the subject of them still not having conquered Gnomeregan
etc.
It's easy to create conflict, the issue is also sustaining it, not pushing it, resolving it in one patch and never talking about it again.

[Krazzorx]

Could always have Kul Tiras too create human conflict.

[Littlepwny]

Kul Tiras.

[Octavius]

Yeah, Kul tiras + Jaina + revenging Admiral proudmoore ghost.

[Moonstream]

I had always seen night elves as almost a separate force. With they're, basically, own "alliance/horde" grouping with dyrads, hippogriffs, cenarius, ancients. They just seem so ancient and powerful to just run around doing the bidding of some human sitting in a fort on the other side of the world. I mean, these are the people that live in a giant tree, with a leader and portion of the population being 10 thousand years old. Yet they all the sudden just willy nilly do whatever the human king says.

I mean they are part of the alliance, but it always seemed like (in the books, until the later ones anyway) they were or should be a separate force. An example of when they did this correctly, in my opinion, is the battle of hyjal. When first there's the alliance base, then horde, THEN night elves along with all their own allies of nature.

If there were any struggle in the alliance, I would like to see it more with the night elves. The old Tolkien alliance always did have the mistrust and "sibling" rivalries between the High elves, dwarves, and humans. But the Grand Old Alliance, to say, doesn't quite seem the same thing as the alliance we have now. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it was always one of my favorite lore related areas...the interactions between dwarves, elves, humans when they were their own realms and weren't all melded into a faction.

[Matius]

I had always seen night elves as almost a separate force. With they're, basically, own "alliance/horde" grouping with dyrads, hippogriffs, cenarius, ancients. They just seem so ancient and powerful to just run around doing the bidding of some human sitting in a fort on the other side of the world. I mean, these are the people that live in a giant tree, with a leader and portion of the population being 10 thousand years old. Yet they all the sudden just willy nilly do whatever the human king says.

I mean they are part of the alliance, but it always seemed like (in the books, until the later ones anyway) they were or should be a separate force. An example of when they did this correctly, in my opinion, is the battle of hyjal. When first there's the alliance base, then horde, THEN night elves along with all their own allies of nature.

If there were any struggle in the alliance, I would like to see it more with the night elves. The old Tolkien alliance always did have the mistrust and "sibling" rivalries between the High elves, dwarves, and humans. But the Grand Old Alliance, to say, doesn't quite seem the same thing as the alliance we have now. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it was always one of my favorite lore related areas...the interactions between dwarves, elves, humans when they were their own realms and weren't all melded into a faction.

Night Elves were badass in WC3. Now they wouldn't survive without Wrynn... Such bad writing...

[Octavius]

Yeah. And they nearly lost the war against the orcs, even if they have ancients, hippogryphs and so on. And now they don't survive without the humans.

[Zulkhan]

Night Elves getting weaker after WC3 is a consequence of the lost immortality though, which also brought a loss of vitality and vulnerability to illness or the elements.

When Night Elves battled against the Horde in Cataclysm, Cenarius, the Ancients, hell, even Malfurion, the Cenarion Circle and the Guardians of Hyjal were all busy in dealing with Ragnaros and the Twilight's Hammer. Even in the past the Ancients intervened in the aid of the Night Elves to deal with very important matters, not just at every random occasion.

[Octavius]

OK, I know that, the same is with chimaeras and stone giants but in cata there were ancients helping the elves and they were fighting cover ashenvale, their sacred land, so We can assume they were fighting with all their strenght for it... And still they were losing hopelessy, and only saved the day without much explanation. I think it's an evidence they are object of bad writing since cata at least.

[Eats Compost]

Internal conflict is a dumb plot to try and introduce in WoW because the delivery does not support it at all. The whole Garrosh thing was silly to begin with for the same reason.

Arguments and squabbling? Sure. Trying to build up to a faction leader being a raid boss? Irredeemably clunky.

[Zulkhan]

OK, I know that, the same is with chimaeras and stone giants but in cata there were ancients helping the elves and they were fighting cover ashenvale, their sacred land, so We can assume they were fighting with all their strenght for it... And still they were losing hopelessy, and only saved the day without much explanation. I think it's an evidence they are object of bad writing since cata at least.

With "ancients" you mean the huge trees? Because as much as dangerous they can be, fire and siege weapons can bring them down without too much efforts, especially if you target them from afar.

Reasons why Night Elves look bad in WoW are others, mostly the fact that they have become the "good High Elves" of the Alliance, maybe is the consequence of them breaking isolation and meeting other cultures but in WoW Night Elves seem to have lost all their "savagery" shown in WC3. In Cataclysm nothing awfully bad happened, people forget that Night Elves didn't just confront the Orcs but the Horde in general, Tauren warriors and Goblin engineers supported the Orcish invasion, plus Ashenvale is very much near to the core power of the Horde (Barrens, Durotar, the conflicts in Stonetalon and Azshara) where Night Elves were pretty much isolated from their allies, with Theramore attempting to support them by marching through Mulgore but failing.

[Daswolfen]

How about something like this...

Anduin's ship goes missing after leaving Exodar to return home. Varian Wrynn, out of his mind with worry, orders the Alliance to scour Azeroth to find him. His wrecked ship is located with evidence of Night Elf involvement. King Wrynn, questions Tyrande about it and discovers that Malfurian has sensed something stirring in the Emerald Nightmare and is unavailable. She denies involvement in Anduin's disappearance and is offended that Wrynn would even suspect the Night Elves of involvement. This leads to some tension between the Night Elf leadership and the rest of the Alliance.

Valen arrives in Stormwind and tells Varian that he can feel where Anduin is located, but something is preventing him from going there and Anduin is in great peril. He tells him he can feel him in the mountains of Western Tristfall. He gives the king a crystal that will lead him to his son. Varian assembles some of his greatest heroes (feeling sending a military unit will provoke the Forsaken, choses to send a small unit of trusted and powerful heroes) and heads off to find Anduin. The crystal leads them to the Whispering Forest and they discover a group of Night Elves attempting to sacrifice Anduin. The Night Elves are under the influence of the Emerald Nightmare and while rescuing Anduin, Varian catches a fleeting glimpse of Malfurion steping into a portal to the Emerald Dream. Anduin is rescued and while recovering tells his father and Valen that Malfurion has been corrupted by the Emerald Nightmare and was behind his abduction. Valen senses that something is not quite right with Anduin but Varian ignores him.

Varian demands Malfuion and Tyrande come to Stormwind to explain. When they arrive, they are upset at being summoned but deny any involvement in Anduin's disappearance and the attempted sacrifice. Malfurion says the Emerald Nightmare is stirring and he needs to return to find out what is behind its awakening and to try to keep it contained. He and Tyrande leave and that night, Varian Wyrnn is attacked and slain by Malfurion. Anduin becomes king and demands that the Night Elves turn over Malfurion for trial or there will be war between the Night Elves and the rest of the Alliance. The Council of the Three Hammers, Gelbin Mekkatorque, and Genn Greymane all support Anduin's claim, but Valen councils that something is not right and will not participate in any attack on the Night Elves. Aysa Cloudsinger and the Tushi Pandaren also express their concerns and will not condone any action as well. Valen leaves vowing to find out what has really happened.

Skipping ahead to the resolution, Anduin has been corrupted by N'Zoth and is really his agent to foster chaos in order to attempt to break free of his prision. Malfuion is innocent and did not kill Varian Wyrnn. Once the old god is dealt with, and Anduin's corruption is purged, he is still King of the humans, but won't be the leader of the Alliance. Instead, a council is formed to lead the Alliance consisting of all the leaders of the Alliance and the Dwarves, Gnomes, Worgen, and Draenei take the forefront of the Alliance.

[Karrosene]

Im actually tired of seening HvA content. Wanna see some cooperation between the two since you know killing each other while trying to slay beings with power equal to gods isent the best strategy. Dosnt need to be soon but would like see a progression of some sort to that.

- - - Updated - - -

"power equal to" more compared to gods but whatever

[Krazzorx]

Im actually tired of seening HvA content. Wanna see some cooperation between the two since you know killing each other while trying to slay beings with power equal to gods isent the best strategy. Dosnt need to be soon but would like see a progression of some sort to that.

- - - Updated - - -

"power equal to" more compared to gods but whatever

While I'd love HvA to actually be a Cold War, what wouldn't shock me is if there's a fair amount of "Orcs (or humans) are Kill on Sight, lore be damned!" fans who want faction conflict at all costs.

[Arrashi]

How about something like this...

Anduin's ship goes missing after leaving Exodar to return home. Varian Wrynn, out of his mind with worry, orders the Alliance to scour Azeroth to find him. His wrecked ship is located with evidence of Night Elf involvement. King Wrynn, questions Tyrande about it and discovers that Malfurian has sensed something stirring in the Emerald Nightmare and is unavailable. She denies involvement in Anduin's disappearance and is offended that Wrynn would even suspect the Night Elves of involvement. This leads to some tension between the Night Elf leadership and the rest of the Alliance.

Valen arrives in Stormwind and tells Varian that he can feel where Anduin is located, but something is preventing him from going there and Anduin is in great peril. He tells him he can feel him in the mountains of Western Tristfall. He gives the king a crystal that will lead him to his son. Varian assembles some of his greatest heroes (feeling sending a military unit will provoke the Forsaken, choses to send a small unit of trusted and powerful heroes) and heads off to find Anduin. The crystal leads them to the Whispering Forest and they discover a group of Night Elves attempting to sacrifice Anduin. The Night Elves are under the influence of the Emerald Nightmare and while rescuing Anduin, Varian catches a fleeting glimpse of Malfurion steping into a portal to the Emerald Dream. Anduin is rescued and while recovering tells his father and Valen that Malfurion has been corrupted by the Emerald Nightmare and was behind his abduction. Valen senses that something is not quite right with Anduin but Varian ignores him.

Varian demands Malfuion and Tyrande come to Stormwind to explain. When they arrive, they are upset at being summoned but deny any involvement in Anduin's disappearance and the attempted sacrifice. Malfurion says the Emerald Nightmare is stirring and he needs to return to find out what is behind its awakening and to try to keep it contained. He and Tyrande leave and that night, Varian Wyrnn is attacked and slain by Malfurion. Anduin becomes king and demands that the Night Elves turn over Malfurion for trial or there will be war between the Night Elves and the rest of the Alliance. The Council of the Three Hammers, Gelbin Mekkatorque, and Genn Greymane all support Anduin's claim, but Valen councils that something is not right and will not participate in any attack on the Night Elves. Aysa Cloudsinger and the Tushi Pandaren also express their concerns and will not condone any action as well. Valen leaves vowing to find out what has really happened.

Skipping ahead to the resolution, Anduin has been corrupted by N'Zoth and is really his agent to foster chaos in order to attempt to break free of his prision. Malfuion is innocent and did not kill Varian Wyrnn. Once the old god is dealt with, and Anduin's corruption is purged, he is still King of the humans, but won't be the leader of the Alliance. Instead, a council is formed to lead the Alliance consisting of all the leaders of the Alliance and the Dwarves, Gnomes, Worgen, and Draenei take the forefront of the Alliance.

Things like this really make me wish there was official MMO-champion fanfiction contest.

[Lady Dragonheart]

I don't really envy the majority of the Horde fractured and mostly hypocritical politics... I've tried to play Horde many many times, and much of it is so broken and retconned, that I can barely stand it...

[wowaccounttom]

title reminded me of this video -- it was made a looooong time ago..

[Talen]

Destinas summed it up perfectly.
The only conflict we may see would be related to sub-classes and my vote goes to Dark Irons. Otherwise, the Alliance has no reason to hate their own.

Pretty much.

There is **some** potential for conflict as the NElfs, Stormwind and Dwarves are all strong, independent, powerful nations with established histories. But there are also strong ties and values between all the Alliance races.

It would be difficult - for example - for anyone to pull a Garrosh in the Alliance. If Varian got too big for his breeches, for example, the others are far more capable of reining him in or kicking him out of the Alliance. or leaving it. They're far more capable of standing on their own.

What does need to happejn is much less focus on the humans. Each Alliance race has their stories that are being ignored.

Jarod, for example, should become Supreme Commander of the Alliance and Varian needs to drop his high King title.

But right now.....there is no obvious source for conflict within the Alliance. That would require growth and development so as to not feel forced.

EJL