6.2 First Impressions

[DravenCarey]

First of all I'm not sure if this should go into the 6.2 buffs/nerfs post but I figured I'd throw it here and let others decide. These are my first impressions from a few hours of testing specs/set bonuses/class trinket.

- Video Version (much more informative w/ some video of my DPS testing etc):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=154rU1mykVU

- As expected, going into the patch we'll see Affliction > Destro > Demo for current gear. These are the numbers I had on target dummies in my live server gear (if I wasn't playing Grim of Service I didn't use Doomguard):

Aff w/ SBH+Sup: 38.4k
Aff w/ Serv+Sup: 35.5k
Demo w/ Serv+Serv: 30.2k
Destro w/ Serv+Serv: 36k
Destro w/ CR+Sac: 36.5k

For comparison on live servers with Demo Serv/Serv I do ~35.1k under the same time window.

- Destro T18 2p w/ ServServ results in mana starvation

- Destro Serv/Serv ~= to CR/Sac

- 4p T18 Demo seems like one more thing to keep track of (maintaining the 25% demon buff will likely become a core aspect of playing Demonology well). Something of note is that the buff is not applied when the ability is cast, but when the ability hits its target - so you'll need to start factoring travel distance with your cast timing in order to maintiain this buff. Also, the RNG of generating MC procs can really be a pain. I fairly frequently found myself forced into Meta to CW just so I could get another SF cast in to maintain my buff (to avoid this we may have to hardcast SF in caster form without the decreased cast time so we can keep our HoG charges which also did decently well).

- Demonbolt played surprisingly well! With the 4p T18 bonus having that you should be casting Soul Fire every 12ish seconds it synergized very well with Demonbolt which uses SF to build DF to dump on Demonbolt. Simply make sure you always sit on your last Molten Core charge so you can be sure to maintain 100% uptime on the buff. For me, it slightly outperformed Serv/Serv (by about 2k with DB + Supremacy).

- Demo's AoE nerf is stiff, but not game breaking. With decent RNG you'll still be competative at Burst AoE.

- With the T18 2p bonus, Destro with CR + Sac plays VERY nicely I expect this is going to be the go to setup for Destro.

- Casting Chaos Bolt with 3 stacks of Backdraft if you have the T18 2p bonus doesnt cause CB to become an instant cast it will simply reduce the cast time by about .4 seconds (for me it went from a 1.3 second cast time to a 0.907 cast time).

- The Class Trinket for Destro was really quite underwhelming. It didn't seem to do much (at all) for my DPS despite its remarkably annoying 10 second duration (this becomes hell, if not impossible, to manage on multi target fights). However, it does work with Fire and Brimstone to spread the debuff (so this may be something notable in AoE situations).

- The Class Trinket for Demo gave me a SIGNIFICANTLY higher number of imps/molten core procs (I counted 12 imps at one point while testing on the target dummy), however, it didnt' affect my DPS by all that much (definitely made maintaining the 4p bonus a bit easier though). With the increased MC procs and imps i had significantly more Demonic Fury (which was frequently spent on touch of chaos just to dump it).

- The Demo 2p T18 bonus looks like it would heavily favor Servitude/Supremacy however even with what could be called quite possibly the best RNG possible (consistnent flow of DF/MC procs/Trinket procs at the right times) Serv/Sup BARELY outperformed Serv/Serv when Serv/Serv had mediocre RNG. I wouldn't expect too much from Supremacy this patch unfortunately.

- Looking at how the Class Trinket plays out for Affliction I ended up doing slightly more DPS when using SBH but slightly less DPS when I used Serv+Sup. My DPS with the trinket and t18 4p was pretty much identical to my DPS without the trinket and using Servitude + Sup, just with the added distraction of having to do more DoT maintenance and refreshing. As it currently sits for single target DPS I don't expect much out of this class trinket for Affliction. I got consistently smoother gameplay without it and very similar results. This could very well change in an AoE setting since our DoTs will put out their full duration of damage in a shorter amount of time (maybe this will pair well with cataclysm?).

- Because of the amazingness that is our 2/4p T18 Bonus I found it more useful to forgo hardcasting my DoTs (to refresh them) during my DS burn and instead just used SB:SS since I had a plethora of Soul Shards and I had no need for them since Haunt was 100% uptime during this period. On the whole I was getting about 77% uptime on Haunt (throughout the duration of a test with some pulls going upwards of 90%) and around 48% uptime for Dark Soul (with it going upwards of 60% in some tests).


I intended to do this as a video but my mic wouldn't get recorded... I may update this post when/if I get that video made. Until then, enjoy!

[Shadowswann]

Thank you for the feedback

[Morath]

Thanks for you first impressions.

[Deleted]

This is a good post with information and experience that blizzard can use. You should post it on the official forums IMO if you haven't already.

[Brusalk]

- The Class Trinket for Destro was really quite underwhelming. It didn't seem to do much (at all) for my DPS despite its remarkably annoying 10 second duration (this becomes hell, if not impossible, to manage on multi target fights). However, it does work with Fire and Brimstone to spread the debuff (so this may be something notable in AoE situations).

This is because it doesn't increase Chaos Bolt's damage. See: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17345676807#1

[Deleted]

Really great post with some interesting points.

Glad to see Serv being an option for destro if it can compete with CR. Not a huge fan of serv to begin with, but I prefer it to CR.

the affliction points really surprise me though - SB:H is really close to serv? The trinket not making much of a difference? Those seem to be pretty contradictory to what a fair few people were saying in the previous 6.2 thread (I distinctly remember people saying the class trinket was very strong for affliction and dismaying since it resulted in a worse playstyle).

[Gaidax]

If Destruction trinket will get fixed to work with Chaos Bolt, it will shit all over affliction just about everywhere.

[Deleted]

Really great post with some interesting points.

Glad to see Serv being an option for destro if it can compete with CR. Not a huge fan of serv to begin with, but I prefer it to CR.

the affliction points really surprise me though - SB:H is really close to serv? The trinket not making much of a difference? Those seem to be pretty contradictory to what a fair few people were saying in the previous 6.2 thread (I distinctly remember people saying the class trinket was very strong for affliction and dismaying since it resulted in a worse playstyle).

Remember that these tests were done on a target dummy and we don't have any logs to analyse and compare. Not attacking OP but we can't know if RNG was involved or anything really.

The Affliction comments run contrary to most of the discussion we've had here, certainly in my opinion Affliction single target with the 4pc and class trinket is a contender for top boss damage, and I don't see Serv / Serv competing with CR + GoSac the way the set bonuses are set to play out.

[Octa]

If Destruction trinket will get fixed to work with Chaos Bolt, it will shit all over affliction just about everywhere.

Yeah, 70% of your damage getting the trinket buff would just be out of this world.
It's like that by design to buff non-CR destro specs, doesn't make sense to design it that way if that isn't the intended purpose. (which is fucking stupid, btw)

[DravenCarey]

Thank you all for the feedback! I have gotten my mic working and I intend to include a video for this which will be MUCH more informational (these were just my quick little notes to myself). Certainly check it out and I can address a lot of these comments in more depth

[MycantrumX]

For those with a good amount of time spent on the ptr, I have a question regarding Glyph of Dark Soul with Affliction for 6.2. Given that the class trinket shortens our DoT durations and that Drain Soul can extend Dark Soul with the tier bonus, is the Glyph of Dark Soul more viable with Affliction now? Since you would only have to refresh once even with lucky tier bonus Dark Soul extensions, would this give us a higher Drain Soul uptime? Just a thought I had recently and wanted to know if anyone had messed around with it?

[Deleted]

I'm not sure I understand your question?

[Deleted]

I suppose it would make sense if you couldnt extend the duration of dark soul past a fixed treshold (like past 20 seconds and you are wasting refresh procs during the first 1-2 seconds) and glyphing DS is unaffected, but if munching exists and its the same with or without glyph then you better run without

[MycantrumX]

I'm not sure I understand your question?

I am wondering if GoDS is more viable now for Affliction. Would we get more Drain Soul uptime due to less DoT refreshing -> more Dark Soul from the tier bonus? It is something I need to test out myself, but I was wondering if anyone had tested its viability yet?

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I suppose it would make sense if you couldnt extend the duration of dark soul past a fixed treshold (like past 20 seconds and you are wasting refresh procs during the first 1-2 seconds) and glyphing DS is unaffected, but if munching exists and its the same with or without glyph then you better run without

I understand your logic here. I think I am still going to pursue this. I think with proper planning and skill, it may have a higher threshold for DPS. Unglyphed would be more forgiving to wasted globals.

[Deleted]

Considering the tier bonus does exactly the same thing for both unglyphed and glyphed I still don't really understand your question (perhaps I'm missing something really obvious).

With both Glyphed and Unglyphed Dark Soul you still refresh your DoTs at exactly the same time.

Can you be more specific about what planning and skill you think will allow for a higher threshold.

[MycantrumX]

Considering the tier bonus does exactly the same thing for both unglyphed and glyphed I still don't really understand your question (perhaps I'm missing something really obvious).

With both Glyphed and Unglyphed Dark Soul you still refresh your DoTs at exactly the same time.

Can you be more specific about what planning and skill you think will allow for a higher threshold.

Due to the reduced duration of our DoTs from the class trinket, you'll have to refresh them during a Dark Soul burn. My thought is that because you would only have to refresh once during the glyphed DS versus 2-3 times during the unglyphed DS, you would have a higher percentage uptime of Drain Soul on the target.

This would result in more relative chances for a set bonus proc to extend your Dark Soul with the unglyphed than the glyphed.

My theory follows along the same thought process as using GoDS with CR Destruction as it will allow you to get out more buffed Chaos Bolts over the course of a fight since you spend less Dark Soul time doing maintenance like reapplying Immolate or rebuilding embers for more CB before DS ends.

For Affliction you would, in theory, do less maintenance during Dark Soul (reapplying DoTs) and more time casting Drain Soul over the course of the fight.

[DravenCarey]

Hey MycantrumX, I think I get exactly what you're saying and I had the exact same thought when I was doing my testing on the PTR! If I'm not mistaken you're suggesting that by using the shorter duration DS (with the possibility of extending the duration with the Tier 18 bonus) that you could essentially end up getting a longer (collective) Dark Soul uptime correct (through the higher percentage of Drain Soul uptime during the Dark Soul buff)? And if that's you're question I did give that a look too! What I found was very disappointing however. I gave this a look with the class trinket and what I found was (all tests were done with SB:H + GoSup unless otherwise noted):

- Due to the nature of RNG and the very real chance of NOT getting many T18 2p bonus procs using Glyph of Dark Soul in conjunction with the Class Trinket is a DPS loss. On average I would get about 45% uptimes on Dark Soul (4p t18 + class trinket and no GoDS) however once I started trying GoDS it was frequently in the low 40's (~42%) uptimes - even when I had some pretty decent RNG. I mostly attribute this to the more frequent refreshing that must be done to maintain our DoTs - and with those extra casts comes the loss of valuable Drain Soul channeling time which we need to extend our already shortened duration for Dark Soul.

Now, that was all I had really tested and called it a wash with GoDS being pretty much balls and therefore not useful. However, I got the idea that this might not be the case had I not been using the class trinket. So, I went and gave that a shot and here's what I found:

- When pairing GoDS with the T18 4p + my Live trinkets I was able to boost my Dark Soul uptime to ~56% (a non-negligible boost) however this type of result should not be expected in all situations (I had done tests with Servitude + GoSup where my uptime was only 45% and other SB:H + Sup tests where it was only 50% so it really comes down to how lucky you can get).

- Now, none of this is really all that useful unless you know what the uptime for DS is when unglyphed so looking back through the attempts I found that on average I'm getting about ~42% uptime with Dark Soul unglyphed.

So all in all my impression of this Glyph as a DPS boost is to expect a solid return on this glyph choice! It routinely raised my DS uptime by about 10% (hey maybe I just got lucky a number of times?) and as a result gave me a much higher Haunt uptime (going from ~70% to ~90% uptime!) which of course culminated in about a 3-4k DPS boost . This will likely hold true and be a strong trinket on single target fights (or fights where you can solely focus on one target for the duration of DS) and become rather useless when there are multiple targets in which you must maintain DoTs on. Additionally, due to the increased frequency of casting your DoTs while DS is active (if you have the Class Trinket) you can expect this glyph to strongly diminish in value when/if you obtain that trinket. Hope this helps someone

- - - Updated - - -

Updated the first post with a link to the audio/video I took for this post. It's rather long (over 30 min) but quite informative. Enjoy

[Deleted]

CB does benefit from increased crit chance, it increases its damage. The trinket is 15% buff for CB, which is amazing for CR destro.

It's just bugged currently. Once it works, Destro will be singificantly higher.

[Gaidax]

CB does benefit from increased crit chance, it increases its damage. The trinket is 15% buff for CB, which is amazing for CR destro.

It's just bugged currently. Once it works, Destro will be singificantly higher.

Certainly hope so, I am really a Destruction junkie, dem chaos boltz of doom. <3

[Avikur]

really good video, hope you continue to make them