Justice for Hungary

[Deleted]

How droll. They simply don't deserve their land back then.

Why?
Because Romanians can backstab better?

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The one to blame here is your country for being on wrong side of the war. Just like with Germany, Italy, Japan, Bulgaria... in WWII etc

Like i already said Hungary was forced because of the Dual monarchy.

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Stop worrying so much about ethnicity. Start thinking more about how to make your current country great, not what someone did a hundred years ago.

Well Hungarys problems are largely because of Trianon and Communism......

[Deleted]

Why?
Because Romanians can backstab better?

You propose to perform an even greater unjust act against the ethnic majority? And the racial sterotypes and xenophobia doenst help your case.

We had all those backstabbing story after WW1 here too in germany and of cource they are mostly bullshit trying to hide the shamefull loss.

[Aeula]

Why?
Because Romanians can backstab better?.

No, because they're too weak to claim it for themselves, if one needs to beg for something they think is their's then they don't deserve it.

[Deleted]

Or how about Hungarians move to........Hungary?

Hungarians leave this country at a rather alarming rate, especially lately. Technically those in Romania might come here, as the living standards are somewhat better (if I recall correctly). But considering that the current governments is against immigration, even that looks fishy.

[Deleted]

You propose to perform an even greater unjust act against the ethnic majority? And the racial sterotypes and xenophobia doenst help your case.

We had all those backstabbing story after WW1 here too in germany and of cource they are mostly bullshit trying to hide the shamefull loss.

No Romania changed sides several times throughout the war so its not comparable with the situation in Germany post-WW1.
Also Romania actively discriminates the Szekely people in those regions.
Forcing them to become Romanian and abandoning their old heritage.

[Reeve]

Well Hungarys problems are largely because of Trianon and Communism......

And as long as you're thinking backwards like that, they'll continue to be. Worry about how to improve your country, not about historical wrongs.

And stop worrying so much about ethnicity. Ethnic solidarity/conflict/pride, etc. causes a lot more problems than it solves.

[Puupi]

The Szekely are natives to those areas so why should they move?
Transylvania was always controlled by Hungarians or Cuman rulers.

But, SURPRISE, it hasn't been controlled by Hungarians for 100 years.

Finland lost Karelia to USSR in WW2. How did we leave it to them? Empty. We relocated over 420k people to other parts of Finland (11% of whole population). One day we will have Karelia back one way or another. And how will we have it back? Empty.

[Deleted]

And as long as you're thinking backwards like that, they'll continue to be. Worry about how to improve your country, not about historical wrongs.

And stop worrying so much about ethnicity. Ethnic solidarity/conflict/pride, etc. causes a lot more problems than it solves.

Before people can go to the future the past needs to be accounted or bad things might happen.

[Deleted]

Well Hungarys problems are largely because of Trianon and Communism......

Nah, it has more to do with widespread political corruption. And not only now in Fidesz, but even in MSZP beforehand.

[ringpriest]

Hungarians were a minority in all areas that they lost. It was right that they lost those areas.

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That's stupid. They should have fought better. Or further, they shouldn't have STARTED the war.

As I understand it, the Hungarian revanchist position revolves around the points that #1) their surrender was predicated on having a negotiated peace, and were instead presented with a fait accompli treaty, and the related, #2) that regions would be allowed true self-determination (i.e. voting to see which country they wanted to be part of) and instead the Entente powers just drew some (arguably ignorant) lines for new borders and called it good.

None of that makes the Austro-Hungarian Empire (or its successors states) good or "right", but they do appear to be valid criticisms that went unaddressed for the better part of a century because: WWII and Cold War.

To a great extent it doesn't matter who "started the war" (or to a much lesser extent, even who "won" it) - if you end up with a peace that isn't acceptable in the long term to both sides, you're just banking the coals for another war. This was known at the time, and the victors pushed it through anyways, and the world has been suffering the effects ever since: WWII, instability in the Middle-East, and more were all heavily influenced (if not out-right caused) by how WWI was concluded. This was a mistake that American and the Allies generally did not make after WWII (sadly, the bitter sort of lessons taught by war tend to only last a half-century or so).

The other alternative to a just peace is to do what Rome did to Carthage, but that is far, far harder (both logistically and morally) and does its own sort of damage to the nation that inflicts such a "peace".

[Deleted]

One day we will have Karelia back one way or another. And how will we have it back? Empty.

How shoud that happen? :X

[Deleted]

But, SURPRISE, it hasn't been controlled by Hungarians for 100 years.

Finland lost Karelia to USSR in WW2. How did we leave it to them? Empty. We relocated over 420k people to other parts of Finland (11% of whole population). One day we will have Karelia back one way or another. And how will we have it back? Empty.

I know about the situation in Karelia.
I also know about the situation in Mari/Komi and Perm.
But the problem is relocating them would end the Hungarian presence and culture there.

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Nah, it has more to do with widespread political corruption. And not only now in Fidesz, but even in MSZP beforehand.

Well most of them happens in post-Soviet/Communist countries so i account this too.

[Reeve]

Before people can go to the future the past needs to be accounted or bad things might happen.

Nonsense. There's still a bunch of ethnic Germans living in France (Alsace/Lorraine). Do you think they were better off when France and Germany were fighting over that territory for centuries? Or now that France and Germany have decided to set aside their differences and move on?

Do you think that if Japan continued to hold a grudge against the US for Hiroshima/Nagasaki, or the US for Pearl Harbor, they would have been able to become the massive economic powerhouse they are today?

Societies are almost always better off when people can put their grudges behind them and move forward together.

[Deleted]

Nonsense. There's still a bunch of ethnic Germans living in France (Alsace/Lorraine). Do you think they were better off when France and Germany were fighting over that territory for centuries? Or now that France and Germany have decided to set aside their differences and move on?

Do you think that if Japan continued to hold a grudge against the US for Hiroshima/Nagasaki, or the US for Pearl Harbor, they would have been able to become the massive economic powerhouse they are today?

Societies are almost always better off when people can put their grudges behind them and move forward together.

The population snd region of Alsace is pretty small and is not really that comparable with the situation in Transylvania (Also French dont discriminate the natives in Alsace)

[Mister K]

It's not like some of the land was redistributed to Hungary from the Slavs (Slovaks and the Czechs) *cough* lets not forget about that ey?

[temp2021ph]

There are no borders. Just in your mind.

[Puupi]

How shoud that happen? :X

Plenty of options. Most likely through diplomatic means eventually. We had a great opportunity to take back Karelia when USSR fell down, but our sheep president Koivisto shat in his pants and did nothing. Russia is bound to fall sooner or later, then we will grab Karelia. Just have to patiently wait.

[Reeve]

The population snd region of Alsace is pretty small and is not really that comparable with the situation in Transylvania (Also French dont discriminate the natives in Alsace)

The US threw Japanese Americans in concentration camps during WWII. We then continued to discriminate against them for a while after. Ask Japanese Americans if they were better off continuing to gripe about past atrocities, or if they were better off pushing through the discrimination and hatred to make their way towards their future.

[Bakis]

Also this was the reward for the Hungarians after defending Europe against the Ottomans and Mongol Empire?

Np, you are welcome. Glad you could be at our service.

[Mayhem]

Serbs killed a prince, Austria-Hungary started a war. Maybe you shouldn't have joined Austria with a dual monarchy.

Uhm, yeah. There´s little choice left when the heir to the throne is assassinated. I mean you have to show your strength, you can´t just shake it off as if it was nothing.