6.2 Holy Preliminary BiS

[ceddya]

I have no idea how but the first time I did it came up as 6.something. It still feels pretty weird. I imagined PoM would be proccing a lot more, especially with the 2piece. Anyway: Not from personal experience, but according to Bnet forum posts it just duplicates the heal, which is so underwhelming.

Ugh, that would be a 10% buff to PoM then? That's pretty awful seeing as the current 2-piece is an 80% bonus when there's heavy damage.

Although, the rumour mill has it that Holy Priests are due for some buffs. Here's hoping!

[Thirteen]

Ugh, that would be a 10% buff to PoM then? That's pretty awful seeing as the current 2-piece is an 80% bonus when there's heavy damage.

Yup, that's exactly what it is. Again, this is from forum reports, not my own experience. But just... Why? What sense does it make for tier x 2-piece to be SO much stronger than tier x+1 4-piece.

[VelvetRealm]

So in the end, the 4pc isn't worth it for Holy is the result? Take the Helm/Gloves non tier pieces instead and just go with 2pc tier on the chest/Legs/Shoulder?

[Deleted]

So how about http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=124519/r...of-war&bonus=0 ?

[Deleted]

So in the end, the 4pc isn't worth it for Holy is the result? Take the Helm/Gloves non tier pieces instead and just go with 2pc tier on the chest/Legs/Shoulder?

For full mythic BiS, correct.

At heroic or lower ilvl it's almost too close to tell, since the stat gain from dropping set pieces is smaller. I'd be inclined to say it's worth taking 4pc until mythic but the difference should be too small to really notice overall.



@6thumbs.
I can't think of a single situation that will be better. I'd rather have a non-upgraded darkmoon card equipped.

[Thirteen]

I'd rather have a non-upgraded darkmoon card equipped.

Twisting Nether is significantly better.

[nacktarn]

l like your spreadsheet in overall but the only thing that makes me wonder is why Versatility is so high compared to other secondary stats? 90% people thinks its a shit stat and on your stats value thing makes it to compete even with multistrike

[Deleted]

l like your spreadsheet in overall but the only thing that makes me wonder is why Versatility is so high compared to other secondary stats? 90% people thinks its a shit stat and on your stats value thing makes it to compete even with multistrike

Not sure which tab you're looking at but versatility is quite far behind multistrike in all of them that I can see.
That said I do value versatility higher than many people seem to. Largely because that's what all the data seems to suggest (from mylliors spreadsheets and my own). The reason I'm confident in valuing versatility 'relatively' high is due to the other benefits. It's a consistent stat for healing, there's no RNG factor so no reason to artificially devalue it based on it's ability to save lives, secondly it does have defensive benefit. Worth noting that the value I gave it is PURELY it's HPS value from all the data I can find (and make), adding the defensive benefit would increase it further. Nonetheless it seems a good reason not to reduce the value simply because other people don't 'like' it.

The opposite can be said for mastery, people seem to value this stat quite highly whilst personally I certainly don't 'like' a heal that lands 6 seconds after I intended to heal them, regardless the stat weights are my best effort to be as accurate as possible taking into account some of my own personal logs and a theoretical maximum hps using the tools I have available.
It's been a while since I've reviewed my stat weights and will be overhauling them at some point 6.2 as some of the unknown pieces begin to fall into place, will mostly be looking to see how the new tier affects various over healing amounts and any changes the set bonus or trinkets might bring.

There's no doubt that these stat weights are a 'best guess' rather than something more concrete like you might expect from DPS sims. This is partly down to no real support from SimC, but even if there was it would be a near impossible task to accurately measure ALL scenarios, healing is just too variable and inconsistent. I've found the best ways are either to take a specific log and analyse it in detail (or a sample of logs) or to aim for a theoretical max, a kind of 'infinite damage to heal' type scenario.

It might be presumptuous of me to suggest a BiS list for the community, I do believe that everyone should make their own, find their own stat weights etc etc. People heal differently, they're in different types of guilds, doing different content, with different co-healers. I was actually hoping for more 'how about this instead?' replies in this thread (with reasons ofc!)

You are ofc welcome to change the stat weights and make your own BiS list ^^

[Thirteen]

Ran the stat weights on wowhead again, and came up with sth slightly different from what I had before:

Head: Pious Cowl
Neck: Locket of Unholy Reconstitution
Shoulders: Mantle of the Eredar Lord
Back: Cloak of Hideous Unity
Chest: Pious Raiment
Wrists: Pristine Man'ari Cuffs
Hands: Satin Gloves of Injustice
Waist: Demonbuckle Sash of Argus
Legs: Leggings of the Iron Summoner
Feet: Bloody Dagger-Heeled Pumps
Finger: Ring of Foul Temptation
Trinket: Demonic Phylactery
Trinket: Unstable Felshadow Emulsion
2H: Edict of Argus (612.92 score)
MH+OH: Gavel of the Eredar + Gibbering Madness (611.9 score)

Weights:
1.00 Int
0.91 SP
0.60 Spirit
0.58 Multistrike
0.55 Haste
0.50 Vers
0.48 Crit
0.35 Mastery

[Deleted]

Ran the stat weights on wowhead again, and came up with sth slightly different from what I had before:

Head: Pious Cowl
Neck: Locket of Unholy Reconstitution
Shoulders: Mantle of the Eredar Lord
Back: Cloak of Hideous Unity
Chest: Pious Raiment
Wrists: Pristine Man'ari Cuffs
Hands: Satin Gloves of Injustice
Waist: Demonbuckle Sash of Argus
Legs: Leggings of the Iron Summoner
Feet: Bloody Dagger-Heeled Pumps
Finger: Ring of Foul Temptation
Trinket: Demonic Phylactery
Trinket: Unstable Felshadow Emulsion
2H: Edict of Argus (612.92 score)
MH+OH: Gavel of the Eredar + Gibbering Madness (611.9 score)

Weights:
1.00 Int
0.91 SP
0.60 Spirit
0.58 Multistrike
0.55 Haste
0.50 Vers
0.48 Crit
0.35 Mastery

Good catch on the bracers, not sure how I overlooked those but they are better than what I had listed even with my own stat weights. Odd itemization for sure.
Otherwise it looks exactly like I had posted ^^

I'm still not a fan of the leech trinket, our druid picked it up yesterday so I'll keep my eye on it and may change my mind.

[Thirteen]

Good catch on the bracers, not sure how I overlooked those but they are better than what I had listed even with my own stat weights. Odd itemization for sure.
Otherwise it looks exactly like I had posted ^^

I'm still not a fan of the leech trinket, our druid picked it up yesterday so I'll keep my eye on it and may change my mind.

Hah I know right? Apparently wowhead has a search-by-stat weight [link with my weights] option that I just found out about, and when I found them I was like "wait what this exists?"

[Deleted]

Hah I know right? Apparently wowhead has a search-by-stat weight [link with my weights] option that I just found out about, and when I was them I was like "wait what this exists?"

The worst thing is I'm actually wearing the heroic version.... /hides

[Myllior]

For the wrist slot, I think it's fair to say that there are multiple options that are practically identical; i.e. using your weights Red puts the Powder-Singed Bracers 4.70 PP ahead of the Pristine Man'ari Cuffs (382.71 vs. 378.01), whereas increasing Versatility's weight to 0.5 (so using Thirteen's weights) puts the cuffs ahead of the bracers by 2.94 PP. Still, it's a more meaningful increase than when I use my weights (with the higher Mastery value); in that case, the bracers, cuffs and wristguards are only separated by 2.15 PP between the best and worst of the three.

Hah I know right? Apparently wowhead has a search-by-stat weight [link with my weights] option that I just found out about, and when I was them I was like "wait what this exists?"

I cannot thank you enough for finding this! I assume it can also be run on the PTR item database; it'll save so much time!

[Deleted]

For the wrist slot, I think it's fair to say that there are multiple options that are practically identical; i.e. using your weights Red puts the Powder-Singed Bracers 4.70 PP ahead of the Pristine Man'ari Cuffs (382.71 vs. 378.01), whereas increasing Versatility's weight to 0.5 (so using Thirteen's weights) puts the cuffs ahead of the bracers by 2.94 PP. Still, it's a more meaningful increase than when I use my weights (with the higher Mastery value); in that case, the bracers, cuffs and wristguards are only separated by 2.15 PP between the best and worst of the three.

Indeed. That closeness isn't just for bracers either. As I mentioned in the original post of the thread, there are a lot of options that have very similar results - largely due to our preferred stats appearing on the lower ilvl pieces, things like the belt, bracers, choice of offpiece and even weapon (edict vs voidcore) are relatively tiny differences, especially when compared to what other specs are looking at (disc for example has mostly very clear BiS items with the only real options coming from spirit vs non spirit items).

Since I haven't been playing Holy this tier I've not put as much effort as I would have liked to regarding making new stat weights and updating this BiS list. Looking at the original post I think it could definitely use some tweaking.

[Deleted]

Question - Been gone for a while and all, but how is mastery worth less than both crit and versitility on gear? I get why it can be valued less than haste if you aren't using direct heals enough (I'm assuming renew + coh spam is still the normal holy heal style?) but versi and crit both being better just blows my mind.

Largely due to the amount of healing coming from renew and largely due to the overhealing nature of mastery.
It is a good question though and at this point the holy stat weights really deserve a full review, maybe I'll get to it this week D:

[Thirteen]

Sure, sure, heretic.

[Deleted]

Few questions since I'm trying to catch up on all the priest stuff that may have changed since I last played.

*Jhaz-healing would likely go by a slightly different stat weighting correct?
*Would weights change based on the rate of progression? e.g. if you guild is progressing faster than they are gearing, would mastery be more valuable since it wouldn't be as likely to overheal?
*Would weights changed based of talent choice? e.g. If you use SoL, would mastery be increased to any notable degree, since you would have the free flash heals and as a result, the free serendipity charges (assuming you used them for actual healing, and not for the sake of using it)?

yes to all of those questions

- - - Updated - - -

Sure, sure, heretic.

http://i.imgur.com/gBPYwyil.png

I KNOW. It's a sad sad time. I could probably still be playing holy right now, but once I pick up 2set, holy is just going to be left in the dust with no chance of keeping up. Thought I may as well learn the fights in the spec I'll be playing for mythic progression.

That 6% haste is just no competition for a 258% strength penance (resulting in 20%+ healing increase for disc :/). balance.

[Thirteen]

Taking a look at Stone of the Elements on a hypothetical 10minute fight:

170 spirit (with Channeled Pot)
351 versatility
510 int (1870 for 15s, 55s ICD)

The int - if my calculations are correct, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong - is huge. Prophecy of Fear Mythic is +525 int. Compared to Demonic Phylactery (with spirit valued at 1067 [source] *), the weights come up as 908 (Stone) vs. 1709.96 (DPh M), with spirit valued at 1.02. Obviously the value of spirit isn't constant (the more of it you've got, the less its valued), so this will only apply at low spirit values. Comparing it to Iron Reaver Piston M (int/crit/haste statstick), the numbers come up as 908 (Stone) vs. 854.42 (IRP) - this also includes the "inflated" value of spirit.

Take from these calculations what you will. Personally I think it's very worthwhile to take Stone of the Elements, and if you find yourself swimming in spirit because of it, you can swap an item that's got spirit for one that doesn't (like Choker of Forbidden Indulgence).