Edmonton cyclist denied entry to bike shop ‘based on gender’.

[Beery Swine]

No, it categorically is not.
Principle - Please learn the word.
Heard the phrase - Justice is blind? - Also, you haven't said the magic words yet, but lets just cut them off here, Social justice, Is bastardisation of 'justice' it is in fact an antithesis to justice, it is like an Illiberal democracy - Bad, Just categorically bad.

What you mean like . . . nope, can't say it, even if it is my own country. Never know when the mods will decide to enforce the rules.

[Venant]

Geeze this reminds me of the time they wouldn't let me into a nightclub because it was cross dressers night.

Didn't we figure out segregation is bad decades ago, now people want to name new 'protected classes' and begin segregation all over again?

[Deleted]

Sounds like discrimination, but that's crazy, it's impossible to discriminate against white cis males!

As a TransCanadian Attackhelicopter myself I think we count as non binary and I feel still excluded.

[Sylv_]

It was their night, and John is a cock.
Cry, baby. Cry.

If it was not "their" night, and he was barred, then it was a legit bullshit rude act.
People are so fragile and sensitive these days.

I am a mega-angel-kin-non-binary-sandal-shoe-androg. Special snow flake alerts here.

[Beery Swine]

Geeze this reminds me of the time they wouldn't let me into a nightclub because it was cross dressers night.

Didn't we figure out segregation is bad decades ago, now people want to name new 'protected classes' and begin segregation all over again?

Some people are more equal than others.

Johnson is a cock.

It sounds better like that.

[THE Bigzoman]

To me that is a legal absurdity, because the moment they'd force people to sign a membership slip, to a women only club, before they can get stuff everything would fine again from a legal and, for some people, justifiable point of view. It's an extra almost pointless adminstrative hurdle. Either way it seems from what they're explaining on the site that they are trying to get the resources and volunteers together to provide an outside shop stand for men while the safe space program is active... So they are working on it. (It seems they prefer that solution over an administrative one).

But even if they weren't working on it... We seem to agree with eachother for about 96% (pun intended) but I err on the side of letting them have their safe space program (with my own justifications which I've tried to explain over the past few pages). In the end it's a non-issue and it seems perhaps most people, when they are in a good mood instead of contrary, seem to agree with eachother.

I think we're pretty much on the same page, except for a small wrinkle.

Not necessarily. If it's a club or membership, it's entirely a private thing that isn't open to the public. Only members get to enter the shop at X time is perfectly fine.

[Post]

It was their night, and John is a cock.
Cry, baby. Cry.

If it was not "their" night, and he was barred, then it was a legit bullshit rude act.
People are so fragile and sensitive these days.

I am a mega-angel-kin-non-binary-sandal-shoe-androg. Special snow flake alerts here.

Again someone takes that weird stance of "oh boo hoo your poor feelies!" while defending someone who is so fragile they can't even handle being in the same building as men. Pretty clear show of bias.

[Deleted]

Sigh, we are still on about this, do you guys truly not understand that "positive discrimination" is not the same as taking someones rights away??
Because this is all that there is to this, taking the rights away of men to favor woman.
Want your little club, thats fine, but you can not discriminate to whom you sell your merchandise. If you do not want to have anyone els there you simply close the shop.

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You don't think that the distinction between private and public is very arbitrary?

"Sign this membership slip before you purchase! Sorry dude, women only!"

vs.

"Sorry dude, women only!" - The result is the same...

So the rest of the days this shop would be closed? This shop would only be opened on those Sundays? Because that is what you would have to do, you can't just ban people 1 day a week, it is all or nothing.

[Deleted]

That is true. But the program quite literally spells out the word: "transgender". I imagine it keeps others at bay already. And if anyone still is being a douche they can still tell them to leave.

Yeah, this program is not about hatred of men, No.

It all comes down to a fundamental disagreement on certain principles:
I don't mind the concept of positive discrimination, because I don't believe in slippery slope fallacy that it'll be used for other things eventually and then we'll be back to the Holocaust...

It is not a fallacy, the exact road to the holocaust is known - Step by step.
- you are straw manning us saying this will lead to the holocaust.

I can see the program having merit and according to the comments on the site, there are quite a few very happy people. That said I wouldn't mind observing or getting to know more details of how the programs at the workshops work out.

Yes, the KKK though the jim crow laws were good too, Are you for fucking real?

The community centre definitely seems convinced that they are in compliance with local laws, and from my own education on law, I must agree with them that they definitely have 'wiggle room', up to the point of being allowed to deny service 24/7 to men if they wanted.

They are not, and their rationale following the charter is nonsensical - it does not meet the exemptions - There is no hindrance to female bikers.

That is their perogative within the legal confines of positive action.

This is not actually positive action, it is negative towards men, that is not the same thing.

Secondly, being upset over this all seems really petty.

A feminist complaining someone is being petty - Really, i know you have been trying for a long time in this thread, but that may take the prize.

Even if it is outrageous discrimination (in your opinion!),

It is.

for a few hours, during closing hours, every 2 sundays

0.001375% of the time women's voting rights are restricted - its basically nothing, and you are just being petty.

, while another shop is open nearby... Uh, come on now.

6th time, Separate but equal - This is NOT a refuge.

If it had been me though I'd had helped out the guy instead of rubbing the rules into his face. I'm not fond of such stringent abiding of rules.

You seem unable to grasp the concept actually.

If this program or it's organizers at any moment would show that they're doing this all while perpetuating an idea of being dicks towards guys,

Read your first fucking line - They are arguing for a safe space for Transgendered people - then assuming all males are transphobic and asserts that women can never bee transphobic - This is 100% nothing but being dicks to guys.

And people being upset about guys not being sold stuff to during the program? Well, sure you might have a point there,

No, this all we are upset about - apart from the program being retardedly sexist and idiotic -We are done.

but I err more on the side of let them be if it helps women and transgender people.

Women and transgendered people do not have the same needs, Don't conflate them.

They are even working already on getting the resources together to be able to provide an outside stand that will be able to service guys while the program is active. Let it not be said that this community center has bad intentions. So let's not go and remotely compare it with anti-gay bakeries...

/facepalm.

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To me that is a legal absurdity, because the moment they'd force people to sign a membership slip, to a women only club, before they can get stuff everything would fine again from a legal and, for some people, justifiable point of view. It's an extra almost pointless adminstrative hurdle.

Those - as you call them - Legal absurdities - are important.

But what would be the difference? Nothing bar it being more in line with laws people can agree with, the outcome is still the same. So talk about making a problem out of nothing.

Im going back to this one, because it was a better representation of your point.
You see, those arbitrary legal distinctions exists for a reason, Usually a good one, and in this case, yes its a good one.
It separate what is public, and thus Must service equally - and what is not, and may choose to have its own rules.
No matter that the outcome is the same, The legal distinction remains important - Because the law is designed to be Consistent, and not open to interpretation in regards to the outcomes - becasue an inconsistent arbitrary justice system, is neither a system, nor justice.
If you dont understand this, it is just patently obvious that you do not understand law.

[Deleted]

So you don't really mind what is happening, you just want to make sure they are in accordance with arbitrary law.

Okay then. Works for me, whatever makes you happy.



OUTRAGEOUS DISCRIMINATION!!! (unless there are private membership slips)

Still waiting on you to explain why/how they are being discriminated against, i have seen no such thing. So the whole point of being able to do that is taken away. And as for this ludicrous assumption, he is not saying that law is arbitrary, he is saying that IF you have an arbitrary justice system it would not be a system, nor would it be justice. That means that the law isn't arbitrary, you want it to be, but it is not.

And read my last post again please, just because you have made a card doesn't mean that you can suddenly discriminate, it only implies that you can't be open the remainder of the days. If you have to be part off the club you will always have to be part off the club in order to be able to shop there. Stop making up stupid shit.

[theostrichsays]

You guys smoke crack to stay up and argue on this thread? Davillage with 371 posts, and a couple others with 160+ posts.

[Deleted]

So you don't really mind what is happening, you just want to make sure they are in accordance with arbitrary law.
Okay then. Works for me, whatever makes you happy.

No, as I said, i find the program sexist, retarded, and pointless - But if it is a private club, it can be just as much of those three things they like, just like say the KKK.

OUTRAGEOUS DISCRIMINATION!!! (unless there are private membership slips)

Just - sigh.
- A private organisation is bound by different rules than a public organisation - What part of different rules for different subsets do you not understand?

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I think you guys are just making this up as you go. Therefor I asked some legal experts to look into this thing. Just need to wait until they explored all legal angles on this.

It is very simple, the store and the workshop are legally distinct entities - never mind who is operating them and where.
Having the store part closed and having the special workshop part on Sundays is perfectly allowed.
But that is predicated on the Store part being closed to the general public.

[Deleted]

I think you guys are just making this up as you go. Therefor I asked some legal experts to look into this thing. Just need to wait until they explored all legal angles on this.

Look, i'm not the one here trying to make up reasons as to why discrimination is okay, nor am i the one trying to circumvent laws that are made to prevent exactly that. You are just trying to rationalize something you know is wrong, and you are doing a lousy job off it as far as i am concerned. You have given no reasons as how and why they are discriminated against in the first place, it actually can be contra-productive for the participants if they really have problems with men, as i've said, echo chambers are not helpful with real problems.
But that is not the problem, any private club may be a lousy club, it may even be harmful to you if you choose to be there. But The store isn't a private club, and if it were are private club they would only be able to service members of that club.