Resto Shaman 6.2 Information & Discussion Thread

[Koor]

Heya guys, i do have some serious problems with mana and i don't really know how i can fix that. I'm currently 10/13HC, so not very far, ~1200 spirit, using darmac's unstable talisman (mythic) and chew toy (mythic wf), 4t17 (2m+2hc) and spirit in all pieces (+ shadowmoon obv) and in most of the fights i find myself completely oom 3-4 mins in.

I've been actively playing resto shaman, even at hardcore level at some point, since the very start of TBC, and never before i found myself in such situation where i go oom so quickly. For example, in a fight like Gorefiend, where shaman really shine, i go completely oom during the first "stacking phase" and i'm not really doing anything special... i only drop HR, keep at least 2 RT and spam chain heal. Fel Lord Zakuun is also another fight where i go oom quite early... I know my EB up-times are not really awesome and i'm trying to work on that, but if any of you could give a check at my armory and logs (which i can't link cause i'n newbie on forum) and give some some tips i'd be eternally grateful.

My shaman is Aniz on Al'Akir EU.

Thanks.

For Gorefiend:

1. Try conductivity instead of rushing streams. During the Feast of Souls phase the entire raid is stacked for a long time. That would save you mana since you'll have to cast less healing rains for the same uptime.

2. Raid cooldowns were interleaved nicely, though it seems there was a slight overlap of power:word barrier and your healing tide. It would be nice if power:word barrier can be used when no other raid cooldown are used to cut down on the expensive spell casts while it's up.

3. You can cut down the number of chain heals while raid cooldowns are up (use weakauras to see when they are). For example, when saving mana there is no need to spam chain heal while tranq is up, since the druid tranq is so strong (did 42% overheal on your log), that those chain heals you casted during it are a mana waste since the tranq would have healed the extra damage anyway.

4. During the stomach phase, you used healing surges on the NPCs, which costed you a lot of mana. Use riptide and healing waves instead to save mana, it's OK if you don't heal them to full before they go out, since our spells aren't efficient when they are close to full HP (due to our mastery bonus to low HP). Even if you heal them only to 75%, they will get out with 25% HP, then the DPS can finish them outside.

5. In between the feast of souls phase, there is time to use the channeled draenic mana potion instead of the normal mana potion, that will give back more mana.

For fel lord:

Now that our T17 4-set was nerfed, a style I found to work well there is glyphing chain heal for the 25 yards jump range instead of 12.5, and speccing into echo for the double unleash. In a spread fights, this makes chain heal jump more efficiently, and during the 3 seconds in which we can't cast chain heal, we can use unleash, which will buff the next chain heal by 30%.

This counters some of the theoretical HPS loss of that glyph, and also gives slight mana savings, since it buffs chain heal by 30% but costs 24% of chain heal's mana. In practice depending on the fight glyphing chain heal may not even be a HPS loss, since during those 3 seconds delay if the raid HP goes down (but is still safe from dying), we get higher mastery bonus on the next empowered chain heal.

Also, keep running BRF for the spirit trinkets from blast furnace or blackhand, they are still useful to have for some fights.

[Canibehealz]

Thanks for speedy response.

No problemo, I happened to be browsing at the time!

snip
My shaman is Aniz on Al'Akir EU.

Thanks.

Echoing Shadohw, you definitely want to improve EB uptime. Not only is it useful because of its massive spirit buff but its also 2 seconds every 12 that youre not casting spells that cost mana extending your mana pool that little bit more. Channelled mana potions are almost a key to victory on a lot of encounters. Again, this brings around that not only are you regenning more mana from a use of a channeled potion, but youre also not casting for those 10 seconds. Try to get your EB/RT/HST on cooldown before you stop to drink and be sure to try and communicate it to your other healers so they know that youre out of commission for a few seconds. You should always try to plan the potion use for when there is lulls in healing and try to coordinate it with your other healers so they can drink as well.

As Koor said, unless you have the regen to support use Surge as much as you did you really can just limit yourself to Wave. When the adds pop from the stomach sub 30% it gives a dps boost to a few classes like Spriest and Destro lock for Deaths and Shadowburns so I always try to move on from them when I heal them to around 70% or so. And there is certainly no need to fill with Chain Heal when the raid has a major cooldown like Tide or Tranq rolling. Maximizing throughput with little mana cost is all about setting yourself up ahead of time. Make sure to have multiple Riptides out before Feast starts and make sure to refresh them on cooldown even during feast. A good time to do this is during major cooldowns. Before your Ascendence use, make sure a fresh Rain is down, RT/HST on cooldown and Earth Shield up then pop it and go hard. I've been pushed out by people 3-4 healing and with much higher gear (or tier pieces) than I have but at the time this parse was a Rank 6 World parse and I feel I did the Feast phase fairly well. Remember, communication is key along with spell selection. Weave in those cheaper spells when you can to save mana for when you really need it.

As I'm at work atm I can't look over your logs extensively, but if I get some time later I'll see if I can find any other areas of improvement that haven't been mentioned. I still have some updating to do before pushing a new BiS list though so it may not be tonight.

Good luck and happy Chain Healing!

[Deleted]

Thank you very much for your suggestions guys, i really appreciate it.

[Deleted]

So i've received the Unstable Felshadow Emulsion trinket (leech one) and had chance to test it as the only one in raid using that trinket.

Warcraft logs can be found by searching for "Integra" guild on Ragnaros-EU realm. 06-07-2015 Monday is the day raid happened. Sorry for lack of direct link, unfortunately cannot post those yet on MMO-Champion ;/

What do you guys think? Is the several million healing over the fight worth trinket slot?

Canibehealz, i've seen on previous page you wanted to collect some material regarding this trinket so there you go. I've also read your theorycraft post on cactar (recommend it to everone, a good read, just google "cactar lwlol t18 resto shaman") and while You point out that this trinket might have some potential, i'm wondering if you managed to get some more data and perhaps could recommend what fights it could be worth using it on.

Gorefiend and Velhari seem obvious, but other than that? I'll just add that the other trinket i'm using is warforged Goren Soul Repository, but i also have the Ironspike Chew Toy available to me (both are mythic).

[Rainingblue]

Non that some weeks are gone since 6.2 went out, what do you guys think of 4pcs t18? Could it be a good choice to remove EotE for 5% extra haste since riptide are placed from chain heals too?

[Houselol]

Another log from our Mythic Iron Reaver kill. This is with two leech trinkets in the raid (monk has a normal, I have a heroic version), and a combined 7.81 million raid healing. I don't see myself dropping the trinket it anytime soon, I'm sold that it's BiS for this tier along with a Phylactery.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=143924

[Canibehealz]

snip

Thanks for the log information, I'll have to go over it and take a look.

In regards to if the trinket is worth the slot, it certainly is on MOST fights. Any time where we need burst on demand healing we're unlikely to use the leech trinket but the only fight where I can see that being the case is probably Kormrok. Gorefiend the trinket is the most powerful because the raid is constantly in danger. Velhari is less so because it may LOOK like super effective healing but its not because the life totals are capped. It doesn't register as Overhealing but it essentially is.

Its likely our BiS trinket paired with Phylac on every fight except Kormrok.

Another log from our Mythic Iron Reaver kill. This is with two leech trinkets in the raid (monk has a normal, I have a heroic version), and a combined 7.81 million raid healing. I don't see myself dropping the trinket it anytime soon, I'm sold that it's BiS for this tier along with a Phylactery.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=143924

Thanks for the log House, Im on a quick break from work (its really brutal these last 2 weeks. I really hate when extra long shifts line up with content releases lol. I'll take a peek when I get some time, but Im pretty certain you are correct. Phylactery is an autoinclude because the spirit equiv easily makes up for no 4p17 and the leech effect is just SO powerful from UFE.

Non that some weeks are gone since 6.2 went out, what do you guys think of 4pcs t18? Could it be a good choice to remove EotE for 5% extra haste since riptide are placed from chain heals too?

Echo is still powerful and you should still always cast RT on cooldown regardless of tier bonus. Its a super efficient heal and still helps to maximize your High Tide synergy on as many people as possible, which is the goal. This is especially true because of the 2p. You negate half the effectiveness of the 2p18 if you drop RT down on your priorities. Any time there is consistent movement or a second SLT is needed in the raid for any reason, which is plenty in HFC, Echo will be perform amazingly. I could see Echo not being used on a couple fights, but its pretty powerful.

[Cheze]

the problem I have with the leech trinket is that even though the raw total healing seems to be pretty high, the amounts involved are so small that they'll hardly ever make a difference in 1) whether somebody lives or 2) whether you have to heal them anyway. If trinket leech (hypothetically) heals somebody by a couple percentage points here and there it almost certainly doesn't cause a change in what heals you actually cast.

although it's likely better on fights where people are taking sustained damage for long periods (gorefiend)

[Ashardis]

I'm sorry to do this, but I'm feeling really lost with resto shaman atm and not alot of time outside wow to research much.

Our usual raid set up is 1 disc, 2 holy pallies, a 4th healer sometimes holy priest, sometimes druid, and then me as 5th healer.
Competing with absorbers is killing me with frustration and boredom, and I'm brought along purely for CD use. I feel less use than a parachute that opens on impact :-/
I went crit/haste for mythic brf and was regularly behind the pallies and dics.
I've followed your post here (and your blog) and gone mastery/haste for hc progress, but I'm even further behind the absorbers than before. I totally get hps numbers don't indicate a healers ability, and I've argued that case for many years, but fact of the matter is, most people looks upon them as an indication of skill and performance, and judge me to be lacking.
For the time I have available, I'm trying to research what I can from forums, and logs to see what I can change/improve, but I also have a 4 and 2 yr old to run after all day :P

My gear is in transition from previous crit/haste spec going to mast/haste, which obv isn't helping Ashardos
the only logs we have atm are from Ask Mr Robot

I'm really not enjoying raiding anymore, but I love my shaman too much to drop, and I've healed since Molten Core :P

[Deleted]

Thanks for the log information, I'll have to go over it and take a look.

In regards to if the trinket is worth the slot, it certainly is on MOST fights. Any time where we need burst on demand healing we're unlikely to use the leech trinket but the only fight where I can see that being the case is probably Kormrok. Gorefiend the trinket is the most powerful because the raid is constantly in danger. Velhari is less so because it may LOOK like super effective healing but its not because the life totals are capped. It doesn't register as Overhealing but it essentially is.

Its likely our BiS trinket paired with Phylac on every fight except Kormrok.

I'll admit You surprised me there. On your Resto BiS list you didn't rank that trinket highly so i was wondering if it will get used at all other than on Gorefiend and was more of a niche pick.

Tonight we also killed Mannoroth on HC (self-praise: world-wide rank 2 execution guild rank, my jaw dropped!) so you might have more material to work with, again guild Integra on Ragnaros-EU (6th and 7th July). i don't think any of the other healers will be getting that trinket any soon, but should that change i'll be sure to update you on it!

Another question i have is if you have any way of seperating trinket's leech healing out of player's personal leech healing coming from gear.

[Deleted]

I've followed your post here (and your blog) and gone mastery/haste for hc progress, but I'm even further behind the absorbers than before. I totally get hps numbers don't indicate a healers ability, and I've argued that case for many years, but fact of the matter is, most people looks upon them as an indication of skill and performance, and judge me to be lacking.

As long as you let yourself be judged by (for this purpose) useless people there is nothing anyone can do to help you. Surely you can lower your performance by going crit/haste to better fit their metrics, but why would anyone in their right mind go out of their way to underperform to fit in with shit (shit on a playerskill and if they put you down for your performance on a human level) players?

Resto shaman is not the class for you. No I don't care if you want to hear it.

[Canibehealz]

the problem I have with the leech trinket is that even though the raw total healing seems to be pretty high, the amounts involved are so small that they'll hardly ever make a difference in 1) whether somebody lives or 2) whether you have to heal them anyway. If trinket leech (hypothetically) heals somebody by a couple percentage points here and there it almost certainly doesn't cause a change in what heals you actually cast.

although it's likely better on fights where people are taking sustained damage for long periods (gorefiend)

The benefit once you get a couple people in the raid with the leech trinket is that you can effectively heal less and have more mana longevity. It actually has a negative impact on healer overhealing and stuff until you get used to having it. But basically I stop casting heals when the raid is at 90% health because I know they have leech healing to do and I can go back to conserving my mana for phases that need it more.

I'll admit You surprised me there. On your Resto BiS list you didn't rank that trinket highly so i was wondering if it will get used at all other than on Gorefiend and was more of a niche pick.

Tonight we also killed Mannoroth on HC (self-praise: world-wide rank 2 execution guild rank, my jaw dropped!) so you might have more material to work with, again guild Integra on Ragnaros-EU (6th and 7th July). i don't think any of the other healers will be getting that trinket any soon, but should that change i'll be sure to update you on it!

Another question i have is if you have any way of seperating trinket's leech healing out of player's personal leech healing coming from gear.

I surprised myself really, as I didn't have a lot of time to test trinkets on the PTR which is why Ive been looking for contributions from healers with it. I knew it would be a lot of healing, but never anticipated in the area of 8-10 million on some encounters. I think theres going to be some magic number of exactly how many trinkets are good in each raid and on which classes, but that's remained to be seen so far. We currently have two, mistweaver and holy paladin, and if we get a third its sort of a toss up on who should get it between me and our resto druid. It also depends upon the encounter mechanics on how many and on which classes you want them. That's why the list has suggested three trinkets for the longest time. Also of note, the list has not been updated. Work has been insane and that combo'd with raiding 3 raids (Main M-Th, Alt F/S and Mount Farm on Sun) I have just been too busy to update the last few days with further trinket evals and crafted upgrades.

Currently there is no way to quickly look at a log and say "my trinket did this much healing" because of leech from other sources. Its pretty safe to assume a healthy chunk of it on a log is from the trinket though, upwards of 90%.

I'm sorry to do this, snip

As long as you let yourself be judged by (for this purpose) useless people there is nothing anyone can do to help you. Surely you can lower your performance by going crit/haste to better fit their metrics, but why would anyone in their right mind go out of their way to underperform to fit in with shit (shit on a playerskill and if they put you down for your performance on a human level) players?

Resto shaman is not the class for you. No I don't care if you want to hear it.

Now now, Erzengel, be nice. :P
As a healer you can never let yourself be measured on raw throughput alone unless tested to the limits of your class. Something like 3-4 healing a 25-30 man raid on Gorefiend Heroic in the first few weeks would be a raw HPS test. You don't play a shaman to deal with average damage. You play a shaman to deal with sustained aoe, burst aoe and utility. Don't let people judge you based on raw HPS. Let them judge you based on your play. If youre missing HSTs, RTs, ES and don't use the right spells then they can judge you. Shamans do not shine in content that the raid overgears or overheals.

In a progression raid, a shaman is brought to keep the raid stable in moments of dire need. When the raid screws up something, a shaman is the best healer equipped to come back from it. And a LOT of the time we are brought to raids simply because of our multitude of cooldowns and toolkit. Progression on Kormrok Mythic last night on my stream as an example. We have 5 core healers, one of each spec except Holy Priest (because who brings those when you can bring something better, sorry Jak!), and we sat the druid and monk and 3 healed it because that's typically what progression kills had to beat the 5:10 "enrage" where he does mechanics at the same time and virtually wipes your raid. We use a paladin with 1.5m wings and my HTT and Asc alternating. No other healer can put out the aoe throughput that a Shaman can in those situations. Monks are severely limited to 10 yard range for Breath of the Serpent every 1.5 mins and druids can use tranq and tree but will have a harder time than a shaman. For ease, we benched them and ran with me a disc and a paladin. As a shaman you are there half the time for your cooldowns and if your cooldowns get healed over, or doubled up on, youre going to severely reduce the effectiveness you bring to a raid. I'm not as versed with AMR logs but if you get some WCL parses going I can try and help point out places where you could improve. PM them to me and we can chat. If you want, you can even run your own. Its fairly easy to do as well. PM me if you need assistance there.

[Deleted]

Now now, Erzengel, be nice. :P

For aeons the forces of the elements have shaped the flow of time and space, long before the first human set foot on this unlikely creation called earth, long before the books of history were written by steel. And they will be there after the last echo of the war drums that constitute the heartbeat of the battlefields, the last silent witness of gnomish technology overgrown by grass, long after the human species is but an anecdote - a whisper in time.

Fire, the chaotic force of destruction, the epitome of boundless energy. Water, the calm force of creation, only rarely showing its destructive potential. The earth, supporting and nurishing, everything comes from the earth and returns in due time.

Fascinated by the eternal cycle of genesis and disintegration, several of the self-proclaimed higher races have sought to decipher their secrets on their quest for deeper understanding, and in their effort to manipulate the world to fulfil their desires. From the dawn of the era of alchemy to the downfall of the era of magic.

Fast forward a few centuries all this knowledge is lost in the chaotic meanders of time. Forcibly replaced by the teachings of Good and Evil. Darkness and Light.

Erzengel representing evil, the spirit of malevolence, lurking in the darkness waiting for its time to strike, sensing your every weakness. Cold and remorseless, it is yearning to cause suffering, never being able to feel content.
Canibe representing good, the spirit of benevolence, the support for the weak, hoping to flourish itself by creating happiness and strength in others.

This interpretation couldn't be further from the truth. It is simple, it gives direction in a world too complex to fully grasp. Still it is wrong, it leads astray everyone who seeks knowledge and understanding, it overs comfort over growth.
In reality it is but the forces of the elements that seek to shape this world - to this day and beyond;
Erzengel the incarnation of fire, purging what has been and shall be no more, devouring weakness to make room for strength and knowledge.
Canibe the incarnation of water and earth, soothing, washing away the vestiges of the past, planting the seed to grow in aspiration of having it return as something better and stronger than it was before.

As long as there is balance between the elements there is motion, there is evolution, a new beginning for every end, a beautiful eternal order underneath all of the chaos.


tldr: plz no one ban me for swearing and being direct.

[Deleted]

Damn Erzengel i can only quote Tommy Viseau from the room: "What a story Mark!"

After yet another night of testing the leech trinket, i can safely say which fights seem to be really well crafted in its favor. Please note that those below are describing my Heroic fights in a 15man raid group. The trinket will be even better for bigger raid sizes. Our healing setup for bosses up to iskaar was Druid-Shaman-Paladin. We also had Disc priest helping on Iskaar and Zaakun

Really good on:

- Hellfire Council leeching for 7,1m. Trinket strenght aside from aoe healing comes from healing people being debuffed by mark of the necromancer (constant ticking dmg). Our balance druid managed to leech for 1,36m over the course of the fight!

- Gorefiend - that's a big one, 9,24m total leeching done. Not much to say, 2nd phase of this fight is perfect for that trinkets effect and during its peak time with bloodlust it can make or break the healing. Also worth noting i went inside gorefiends belly 2 times that kill so p1 leeching could probably be slightly better as well.

- Zakuun total of 4,02m leeching (4m39s long fight). Last 30% of boss raid is constantly taking dmg, the trinket is further empowered by likely using tide in that phase, resulting in easier healing for some time after you tide. The last bit is still to be tested though, some people report totems don't count as effective healing thus don't provide the leech effect. We were 4-healing this fight with a disc.

Possibly good on bosses:

- Kilrogg. Total leeching wasn't that impressive sitting at 3,85m, however people i was assigned to go into portal with, managed to heal for quite a lot, 970k for the dk, and 630k on mage, so it makes healing inside less hectic and more managable. I went into 2 portals.

- Iskaar Total of 3,72m leeching. After each focused blast, raid can heal itself more easily + people with the debuff lasting until topped off can help in healing themselves. 4-healing this fight with disc.

- Socrethar 3,6m leeching (was 4,06, however 475k came from construct healing which is our monks leech gear) (4m38s long fight). By having healing rain constantly heal your group, as well as spot healing people with gifts the trinket is working quite nicely. I'm not entirely sure though if this fight is that well suited for its uses.

- Xhul'thorac - 4,15m leeching. Aside from the last phase doesn't seem to be much to heal really and i'd guess the on-use crit trinket is better for last phase too since mana doesn't seem to be of problem on that fight.

- Iron Reaver - 3,19m leeching. In theory it looks promising, a lot of constant dmg going on with the fire debuff as well as blitzes and artilery strikes exploding. My performance on that fight was really bad. Considering we were using 15 people i should've used glyph of chaining which i didn't, so i'd expect the result to be higher in a real thing.

The losers:

- Hellfire Assault - I won't go into detail, this fight is trival on heroic to consider spending analysis time on it. Anything you go with will make you succeed. I guess it could be different story if you were the only person healing it

- Kormrok - As CanIHeal has stated above, this fight requires on demand healing with burst dmg coming in. There's very little of constant dmg going on. This trinket is probably the worst of all on the fight, so unless you're really mana starved i don't recommend using it on this encounter.

That covers all of 10 heroic bosses we did yesterday, i will come back with an update after Tyrant and Mannorth tonight (Archimonde still on progress, sowwy!). Feel free to discuss above analisys.

If you'd like to see the logs for yourselves look for Integra guild on Ragnaros-EU Server. Raid was carried 8th of July 2015.

[Ushra]

I finally got the heroic leech trinket and two piece last night. We are now gonna be double leech in mythic. Some of the numbers I'm seeing so far is pretty absurd.

Logs are private but similar to the above, it's pretty obvious where this trinket is excellent. Kilrogg and council (especially mythic) are hidden gems.

[Alienz]

What I'm curious about is what procs Resurgence now. Does the riptide from our 4 piece proc it? and does the trinket spread riptides proc resurgence? If both of them do, that sounds like a LOT of mana back. And obviously, our 4p and trinket benefit from our 2p crit chance, correct?

[Canibehealz]

What I'm curious about is what procs Resurgence now. Does the riptide from our 4 piece proc it? and does the trinket spread riptides proc resurgence? If both of them do, that sounds like a LOT of mana back. And obviously, our 4p and trinket benefit from our 2p crit chance, correct?

4p Riptide behaves like a normal Riptide. It benefits from all normal Riptide buffs, including 2p. The initial heal is granted when the 4p applies a Riptide and yes, you do gain Resurgence from it. You do not gain Resurgence mana from the trinket spread.

[Gardiff]

What I'm curious about is what procs Resurgence now. Does the riptide from our 4 piece proc it? and does the trinket spread riptides proc resurgence? If both of them do, that sounds like a LOT of mana back. And obviously, our 4p and trinket benefit from our 2p crit chance, correct?

Just as a side-note, in addition to the above, make sure you don't glyph riptide as that will cause the 4 pc spawned riptides to not have the full up-front heal (at least that is how it was on the ptr)

[Checksmix]

idk if anyone has thought of this. But Tyrant phase 2 ALL healing done is 100% effective (on logs).

Would that make cloudburst good?

[Canibehealz]

idk if anyone has thought of this. But Tyrant phase 2 ALL healing done is 100% effective (on logs).

Would that make cloudburst good?

Hey Checks! Long time, hope youre well. As you pointed out, its only on logs is the healing effective and speccing CBT would nerf the effectiveness of both T17 and T18 sets and the synergy they provide with High Tide. I haven't got the time from work to give you a proper mathed out response, I suppose its theoretically possible that CBT+CotE combo'd with Ascendance would maximize your throughput in that phase but youd be overhealing much more than youd be by running the standard High Tide and just maintaining your usual casting rotation. Its not ACTUAL effective healing, its just mere meter padding. I don't see any cases where having even more overhealing during that phase will prove to be effective.

You have to remember that not only does High Tide increase the number of bounces you get with Chain Heal, but it also removes the healing reduction on bounces, and that's a pretty significant factor as well.