Seeking any useful advice and suggestions for raid leading

[Deleted]

The context for anyone interested:
So for 6.1 I ended up the guilds co-raid leader, we hadn't really done anything meaningful even on our backwater server since around Dragon Soul. BRF was initially a massive disappointment as well, up until about 6 weeks ago. Circumstances changed which meant I was put in complete control of sorting the raiding and the raid team, quickly organised a merger with another guild and since then we've gone from 2/10 mythic to 7/10 mythic. With 6.2 looming we called it a day on pushing for progress instead focusing on trying to round out the gear level of the raid team a bit, try to focus on getting those we can mythic weapons etc. A main reason for this is, as a raider I can get to grip with Maidens & Blast Furnace, but to actually get the jobs sorted and dished out correctly even with more effort and reading up than I'd like to give to the game I couldn't draft up a plan for my raid team.

I never had any aspirations to be a raid leader, but sadly so far I haven't been able to find someone who will take it from me. I've had a severe disadvantage when its come to effectively researching fights, and even getting an overview of other classes. Only ever bothered with a hunter, I can play it passably at mythic level and I never fucked up too much on movement. So that impacted the choice an enormous amount, I had no idea just how to pick the best from what I had available for the fights.


The Guild:
The guild is a very casual set-up, there's about 40 raiders in total and we raid mythic 3 nights a week. Everyone knows there's no commitment to that or rather punishment if you're unavailable, those who need to do X/Y/Z can without much concern about it negatively impacting us or their future raiding chances. There are plenty of options and I attribute this in part to bridging the many areas in which I'm lacking.

I currently have a considerable amount of officers who help piece together the jigsaw. With 7 or 8 people assigned various different jobs that I just basically act as the central conduit for.


The Important Part!
I know that what I need help with most is getting a grip on healing classes/compositions that work well and tanking set-ups. My DPS whores will generally tell me if they're particularly well suited to something that enables them to pad but I know in some cases I'm probably using the wrong classes in the wrong places there.

Also the tools a raid leader uses, I've recently gotten my hands on a weakaura that shows combat resses, who's is available, who's using them and such which has been helpful. I tend not to know what specific cooldowns are useful in which situations to call for, and while people can call for them themselves, some of the raiders will generally only react to me specifically calling for something.

The other thing I can generally do with some guidance on, is how to focus on managing a raid and still focusing on personal performance. I noticed as we got further into BRF Mythic and I had to do and call more, like on Kromog and Thogar my own performance individually was suffering. I suspect this is just an acquired skill that takes time to develop, but its frustrating when you make a mistake while being mid-sentence telling someone to stop making their current mistake.

[Deja Thoris]

Sounds like you are doing more than fine.

A few addons can help with raid cooldowns. Hermes for example shows whats available and you can learn where each one or useful or...

Delegate: Find a likely healer candidate and get them to work it out and call it out. They watch the healthbars anyway and understand damage patterns better than you.

In fact, "delegate" would be my advice for lots of stuff.

[Johnny Chimpo]

If you're worried about your understanding of a fight's mechanics and you're not pushing for World/Server firsts, then Warcraftlogs is your best friend.

Go there & search for raids of roughly your item level, then look at the top Speed & Execution kills.

Once there you can learn so much about a fight by looking at how the "best" kills handled it. How many healers did they use? Which classes were DPS'ing which mobs, how many were assigned to which jobs, what boss abilities did the most damage, when were CDs used, what order were things killed in, what got interrupted or dispelled, etc., etc.

You can even visit those guild's calendars and look at fights leading up to their first kill for even more useful data on what DIDN'T work - when they were wiping, what killed them?


Before each progression fight I raid lead, I usually study 15-20 fights in order to see what works.


One benefit of doing this, is it makes it really hard for people to argue with you or question your choices. Not that it's always a bad thing to have people question you, but when you come equipped with a ton of evidence that this strategy works for raids of our item level then it puts to rest a lot of the arguing and second-guessing that can happen between pulls. "Maybe we should use less healers. Maybe we need more people in balconies." etc., etc.

It also just fills me with more confidence. If you just go in blind or having watched a few videos/read guides, it's really hard to be confident in your choices. Especially when you consider how different the guilds in the videos you watched might be from your own. Like the classic Fatboss syndrome where they open every video saying "This encounter's really easy!" it's like yeah no shit it is, for your guild... doesn't mean it will be for the average setup.

[Styxxa]

I would recommend a tighter core of officers - perhaps one of the tanks, a healer, and a ranged dps (kind of like captains of the various roles). Each of those officers can help plan encounters in those respective areas - and help you lead them when the time comes (i.e. calling stuff out). I know our healing captain has set up a chat channel for our healers and they're always discussing rotating cooldowns and other shenanigans between pulls with minimal disruption to the raid. Also, there really is an art to calling things out - I've found that if you're calling timers out, you're doing it wrong. Everyone is capable of watching their own timers. Rather there are certain intricacies that you need to call out - whether it's movements/positioning, prioritize dps on a particular target, other individual responsibilities etc.

I've found a Facebook page and a website really goes a long way in keeping everyone connected and on the same page. With respect to tactics, MMO-C is really my best friend. Lots of discussion here during progression and you can pick up some real gems.

And in game, you might want to check out Exorsus Raid Tools - should have everything you're looking for with respect to raid leading - including breakdowns of every class/spec/talents, and all sorts of useful shit.

Best of luck.

[Johnny Chimpo]

I've found that if you're calling timers out, you're doing it wrong.

Eh, disagree.

Yes, everyone has their own timers, but people tunnel, get distracted, make mistakes, etc.

Nothing wrong with short call-outs like "bombs in 3" or "watch breath."

Simple 2-3 word reminders of upcoming abilities give people time to snap out of it, check their positioning and prepare. There's no reason not to do this. It doesn't really take away from your ability to make other kinds of call-outs.

Preventing a mistake before it happens will always be better for progress & morale than chiding someone after it happens.

[Turtletroop]

Biggest and most important addon for raid leaders... Exorcus Raid tools. Shows all CDs in raid by name and time left till it is up again.

[Deleted]

Eh, disagree.

Yes, everyone has their own timers, but people tunnel, get distracted, make mistakes, etc.

Nothing wrong with short call-outs like "bombs in 3" or "watch breath."

Simple 2-3 word reminders of upcoming abilities give people time to snap out of it, check their positioning and prepare. There's no reason not to do this. It doesn't really take away from your ability to make other kinds of call-outs.

Preventing a mistake before it happens will always be better for progress & morale than chiding someone after it happens.

Kind of agree but I have to make 1 remark.

Don't let it become a norm. within in a guild to a point where they expect it everywhere, because what will start to happen is that they get too comfortable and lose all reasonable focus on responsibilities. One thing that is certain is that you won't be able to call out everything and it will be even more annoying on you and the team when that happens. This will also bring out the really weak spots in your raid at times. And if patterns repeat themselves too much for certain individuals then take it up with them directly 1-on-1. Make it serious though and start looking for a possible replacement to trial at the same time, it bolsters people up.

[Styxxa]

Eh, disagree.

Yes, everyone has their own timers, but people tunnel, get distracted, make mistakes, etc.

Nothing wrong with short call-outs like "bombs in 3" or "watch breath."

Simple 2-3 word reminders of upcoming abilities give people time to snap out of it, check their positioning and prepare. There's no reason not to do this. It doesn't really take away from your ability to make other kinds of call-outs.

Preventing a mistake before it happens will always be better for progress & morale than chiding someone after it happens.

He mentioned his raiders were literally relying on him to call things out and that his performance was suffering as a result. Both of those situations can be improved. You will go crazy calling out everything that people can just watch for themselves and your performance will suffer because all you're doing is watching timers yourself. It's a slippery slope to go down.

If you still want everything called out - then again, assign certain people to watch certain things so you're not the only one calling everything. But still... maybe it's just me, but I generally like to have voice communication pretty clean and clear - only necessary talking. So up to you I guess.

[Kanadei]

And if patterns repeat themselves too much for certain individuals then take it up with them directly 1-on-1. Make it serious though and start looking for a possible replacement to trial at the same time, it bolsters people up.

This feels like problematic advice. He says they have a casual group, I don't think throwing threats around is particularly productive in that environment - especially if you are only recently in charge and your authority is somewhat questionable.

- - - Updated - - -

He mentioned his raiders were literally relying on him to call things out and that his performance was suffering as a result. Both of those situations can be improved.

When I was tanking and raid leading heroic I definitely felt that calling things out impacted my performance. Eventually I ended up giving away all the call outs outside of phase changes or tank mechanics to other people.

[Deleted]

I do try to keep the call outs as short and sharp as possible to make sure people do react, but on a fight like Thogar for example I could almost do with some kind of raid spectator mode. If I miss the beat on a single call its pretty much a wipe there. I think for 6.2 having a few others to call things out should definitely be an idea. Our biggest challenges came on the fights like hans/frans where calling the movement for two separate groups of people just wasn't possible.

Exorsus Raid Tools is an add-on I have, but I'm not using it anywhere remotely close to its full potential, so that gives me something to read up on in the build up to 6.2.

Talking directly to raiders is a bit of a problem because for the majority of the last 4 years or so I've been the laid back, make jokes/have a laugh kind of raider. Once progress was over in the final tier of content I'd usually disappear into the ether for a couple of months so it'd be quite a shift to take a more stern approach to things now.

[Deleted]

I've been a raid leader at various points of the game since TBC.

Back in TBC there was ONE VOICE on TS. The Raid Leader's. They called everything and other people followed orders.

Now there is too much for one person. Too many mechanics to call, they come too thick & too fast. DELEGATION is the order of the day.

Get one of your vocal healers to arrange healing cooldowns. Have the tanks install an addon like Hermes or Exorsus and configure it so they can see CDs like pain supression etc. so they can call for those when they need an external def CD (external means not one of their own CDs).

[Deleted]

Eh, disagree.

Yes, everyone has their own timers, but people tunnel, get distracted, make mistakes, etc.

Nothing wrong with short call-outs like "bombs in 3" or "watch breath.".

My view is that it should be targeted. If you are calling out every event, then there will be constant chatter and something important may be lost (other raiders sometimes need to say stuff). However, if it's an event where you know people are being caught out, then announce those ones.

[femur68]

For Raid CD's, I highly recommend this weakaura set this guy put together a few months back and posted to reddit. This thing imo kicks the crap out of addons like Hermes, since it's incredibly dynamic and accurately tracks multiple charge CDs like Spirit Link Totem and Paladin hands when they take Clemency.

http://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments...a_is_finished/

[Deleted]

For Raid CD's, I highly recommend this weakaura set this guy put together a few months back and posted to reddit. This thing imo kicks the crap out of addons like Hermes, since it's incredibly dynamic and accurately tracks multiple charge CDs like Spirit Link Totem and Paladin hands when they take Clemency.

Exorsus Raid Tools allows you to do that easily as well.

[Johnny Chimpo]

My view is that it should be targeted. If you are calling out every event, then there will be constant chatter and something important may be lost (other raiders sometimes need to say stuff). However, if it's an event where you know people are being caught out, then announce those ones.

Sure.

It's also something that can be tempered over time. Once a pattern is established then you can stop making certain calls and focus more intently on your own performance.

I usually make it a point to say this to my raiders like, "Okay guys, I think we got the bombs down. I'm going to stop calling those out so please watch your feet." Of course, that speaks to not letting it become a habit. If people rely 100% on your voice, then once you stop making the calls things fall apart. I've definitely run into this in the past.


I also move from individual call-outs to general reminders. Like Dreadwing at first I would call out each breath & conflagration and now I just say "Dreadwing watch breaths & dispels!" when the phase starts.


At the end of the day, I err on the side of too many rather than too few. Nothing bugs me more than a raid leader sitting silent through an entire pull, then rattling off a laundry list of mistakes people made after a wipe... it sucks for morale, and it doesn't help kill the boss. Mistakes are almost never a lack of understanding, they are usually a temporary lapse in attention or focus.

[Deleted]

I did have a chat with the officer team last night and said for 6.2 we'll split up more calling jobs depending on the fight to give me a bit more freedom to focus on what I'm doing.

We do use angry assignments as a guild-wide requirement for an in-game notepad its just much easier to keep each fights list of important things there and swap names around as & when they're needed. But should I push all the raiders to be using weakauras too? There are some who don't see its usefulness not just for tracking their own things but also for the bundles often made for the fight mechanics.