Hellfire Citadel Mythic Progression Thread

[stym]

Addons are a simple comfort. You heavily underestimate what players can do if you think addons are anything more than that. The WoW community isn't suddenly crippled on beta when addons don't work. Performance goes down a little, mostly because people have to adjust to the change in UI more than anything else.[...] timers [...] are simple comfort (and/or already have some warning in the base UI), nothing a simple clock and a bit of common sense can't do.

I'll trust you on that one, but I'm pretty bad at multitasking and rely quite heavily on DBM during my first few tries on any given boss (when I'm used to the boss I hardly pay any attention to them anymore).
I would, however, be very badly crippled without TellMeWhen to track buffs, debuffs, dots and what not.

Of course I'm not the one soloing raid bosses without a gross level difference, so you would know better.

[Wilderness]

The main author of DBM thinks addons are indispensable and everyone should play with them? He also thinks it's fine if addons are that powerful? What a surprise. No conflict of interest at all here

Outside of a few exceptions(raden assist and that kind of stuff), addons are a simple comfort. You heavily underestimate what players can do if you think addons are anything more than that. The WoW community isn't suddenly crippled on beta when addons don't work. Performance goes down a little, mostly because people have to adjust to the change in UI more than anything else.

The only thing that truly sucks in the base UI is their implementation of raidframes. Everything else is totally unnecessary and you really don't need to look at db/bigwigs timers to play bosses correctly. Back when I used to raid I disabled most of them anyway because they're just unnecessary clutter for the most part. The few timers remaining are simple comfort (and/or already have some warning in the base UI), nothing a simple clock and a bit of common sense can't do.

I agree with what you're saying to a certain extent, but I think you're only considering what higher end players could do without addons. A large majority of the normal, heroic, and even mythic raiding population would have a much harder time without timers and basic boss mod stuff.

The disparity between just mythic raiding guilds (even between Method/Paragon and other very very good guilds) is part of the problem. There's just a wide level of skill even between the top 50 guilds, let alone world 400 guilds (who still full clear mythic before the next tier). You can design everything around the middle of that population, hoping that the lack of initial gear will make it challenging for the top guilds. You could design it to be crazy hard, and plan nerfs (or even have the stacking buff/nerf that they've done before released over time). Or you can make a mechanic or two like wrought chaos that's going to be challenging but that will be made easier (not easy, but more manageable) once those first few guilds have figured out how to handle it either through positioning or addons or both. I'm not saying any of those design approaches are right or wrong, but the issue with the last one is that it can become somewhat of an arms race between challenging mechanics and addons that help with them. That's what we're seeing with wrought chaos and I'm not the biggest fan of that personally.

[Roshar]

As MysticalOS pointed out, removing the addons would also require removing some of the most complicated and hard to deal with mechanics. If you want to return to Vanilla bosses that are essentially one-trick ponies and snooze fests where the only thing that matters is your gear and how well you execute your rotation that's certainly a valid opinion, but that's what would happen.

If you keep the bosses as complicated as they are right now but remove any addon like weak auras or DBM/Bigwigs, the bosses would not be unkillable but they would certainly be extraordinarily frustrating for even the best players and the race would last a horribly long time.

The comparison with wallhack was also a little ham-fisted. the API is provided by Blizzard, who understand exactly what it can and cannot do. if they are unhappy with some aspects of it they can change it.

I've not raided in FF14 but from what I've read the raids there, especially the Extreme versions, aren't one trick pony snoozefests (FF14 has no addon support). So if SE can accomplish that and their playerbase can succeed, so can Blizzard and WoW's playerbase.

[antelope591]

Personally I thought it was pretty awesome seeing an addon like that in Method's video then from scratch taking it even further to move up in the world rankings. Adds another layer to the world first race and shows a lot of ingenuity outside of slamming your face against the boss until it falls. There's a difference between something like AVR doing all the work for you and a guild creating their own addon.

[Deleted]

If Limit raided as much as old blood legion, they would have easily gotten US first this tier. Midwinter is seriously slacking this tier.

[Kuruption]

If Limit raided as much as old blood legion, they would have easily gotten US first this tier. Midwinter is seriously slacking this tier.

Probably has to do with roster issues since some left for Blizzard, some have had their CPU die, etc. Kinda hard to prepare for that shit.

[CloudedInSanity]

I would want a balance/middle ground between vanilla bosses and mechanics overload bosses

Sadly I don't think this will happen. It seems like Blizzard is trying to take out all difficulty of playing a class whether it be DPS or Healing, and then turning fights into mechanic overload to compensate. Unfortunate really, cause then we get fights like Mythic Archimonde (which let's be honest seeing lazer beams everywhere looks f'ing cool) that have silly amounts of mechanics.


Also, does anyone else feel that HFC was designed from the top down? IE, it honestly feels like fights were first designed in Mythic, and then mechanics were stripped from them to create Heroic/Normal. I get this impression look at fights like Xhul, Fel Lord, and Gorefiend.

We can't close this thread yet, US race is not over!

[rhodes_aos]

The thing with this new design is that players give to much importance to competition in dmg meters...

Then we cant have set roles that take some dps out of the shining spots during fights like it was in classic / bc... Like Locks banishing adds, priests MCing stuff and whatnot...

Mechanic wise we can have interesting fights, with lots of different things going on, and having to split attention not only to dps down another big add.. But then, ppl wont top logs and the whining starts.

[Deleted]

Personally I thought it was pretty awesome seeing an addon like that in Method's video then from scratch taking it even further to move up in the world rankings. Adds another layer to the world first race and shows a lot of ingenuity outside of slamming your face against the boss until it falls. There's a difference between something like AVR doing all the work for you and a guild creating their own addon.

Awesome seeing addon that autopilots you through the fight? And if you think this is the first time guilds make addons for fights you are truly mistaken. If I remember right old Paragon hunter, Kruf, used to do a lot of addon work for them back in ICC/Cata.

[Ratatosk]

Tjeez, one tweet about the expansion at Gamescom and you let this thread die. I'm disappointed.

[Tofimaster]

Tbh HFC felt boring for me, if new expansion happens to be Eye of Azshara, those raids will be HYPE as fuck, should differ vastly from ogres/orcs/demon bosses that we saw so many times. Basically any raid not including orcs or demons would be great and refreshing.

[Deleted]

Tbh HFC felt boring for me, if new expansion happens to be Eye of Azshara, those raids will be HYPE as fuck, should differ vastly from ogres/orcs/demon bosses that we saw so many times. Basically any raid not including orcs or demons would be great and refreshing.

I hope it's that Vengeance of Viscidus mentioned earlier in the thread

[Orionid]

Looking for anyone who has experience on Mythic Gorefiend..

My guild's current issue seems to be add control. We're getting too many constructs come up with too high of health, and having a number of deaths due to Hunger of Life hits and splash explosions. I've heard of guilds sending down additional DPS at certain times to help get as many adds as possible low if not dead while inside the belly. Anyone's guild do this? If so, what classes do you send down and what specific times and why? If you can also provide logs I'd greatly appreciate it!

[The Yeti]

Looking for anyone who has experience on Mythic Gorefiend..

My guild's current issue seems to be add control. We're getting too many constructs come up with too high of health, and having a number of deaths due to Hunger of Life hits and splash explosions. I've heard of guilds sending down additional DPS at certain times to help get as many adds as possible low if not dead while inside the belly. Anyone's guild do this? If so, what classes do you send down and what specific times and why? If you can also provide logs I'd greatly appreciate it!

Just FYI, this topic is for discussing the mythic progression race, not the fight mechanics themselves. You may not get the answers you are looking for here (and I cannot comment because I haven't done Mythic Gorefiend, but GL!)

If you do get the answers, that's great! Again, GL with progression!

[Deleted]

Pretty clear that Vereesa said that the addon played a (significant) part in the Method win but what he didn't say was that it was the main or only reason they won. Someone asked for a bit of insight in the differences in strategy etc and that's what he stated. Even if it does sound a bit salty, he followed it up with a post explicitly stating (in bold, no less) Method was better in all aspects in the tier (execution, DPS etc) regardless of the addon after the thread exploded with nerd rage.

That addon was genius and it must have saved a lot of time. That's the advantage of having someone with the out of the box thinking along with the skill that the guild has. End of the day, Method won, fanboys gonna fanboy and post with salt. At least it brought their raiders out of the shadows of the thread. Still a bit of a chip on the shoulder for a couple of Method players even with the recent tier wins? Will keep them hungry for more wins if nothing else.

[Orionid]

Just FYI, this topic is for discussing the mythic progression race, not the fight mechanics themselves. You may not get the answers you are looking for here (and I cannot comment because I haven't done Mythic Gorefiend, but GL!)

If you do get the answers, that's great! Again, GL with progression!

ahh, my bad, thank you!

[antelope591]

Awesome seeing addon that autopilots you through the fight? And if you think this is the first time guilds make addons for fights you are truly mistaken. If I remember right old Paragon hunter, Kruf, used to do a lot of addon work for them back in ICC/Cata.

where did I say it was the first time a guild did this? It was a good idea then and its a good idea now. Perhaps Paragon needs to get back to experimenting more outside the game considering their wipe difference vs method the last few tiers.

[rhodes_aos]

Current status for world 5th from what i saw in wowprogress (considering those from top 10):

This reset:

Limit and Midwinter are 12/13
Pwnanza is 11/13
REM, AFK R and that chinese guild havent even started yet.

[Deleted]

http://gyazo.com/3566f64646de736a54d288902d0855e2

[zenga]

If only 1 dude quotes you out of context it's basically a lost battle trying to explain it, no matter how much sense you make. It's just a snowball effect where the next dude quotes only parts of the next dude, etc ... regardless of context.