[FFXIV][Spoilers] Heavensward Story

[Katchii]

Also, legacy characters didn't just inherit the title, they *are* those heroes.

Story wise, I think everyone is really a Warrior of Light, Legacy characters just got more of a nod to that fact in the form of a tattoo on their back because they actually played in 1.0 which was before the calamity.

I think the Warrior of Light is becoming akin to a primal. Primals are a physical representation and embodiment of their "worshipers" will, just twisted. We are already a physical person chosen by Hydaelyn, so we don't get twisted, so we should be able to use the power of the aether and the peoples hope and prayers to actually do good things.

[Madruga]

Only one minor complaint I had about Heavensward story is that the Ul'dah situation was solved kind of easily. I was expecting we would have to storm the Syndicate with the help of Ishgard and would need to purge Lolorito from power. I do realize, however, that the way the whole thing was settled left us right in the middle of the Syndicate influence, we kind of reached some sort of "truce", and Lolorito will certainly cause more trouble again in the future, so it was a satisfying development.

Also, I hope we don't find every single Scion. 2.55 ending was kind of dramatic, and finding out that Nanamo didn't die was already a bit anti-climatic, after such a huge probable death toll... It would be engaging to discover someone won't make it, maybe Tancred. We need to bear some scars of all the Before the Fall scenarios.

That said... Y'shtola really rocks now!

[Lathais]

nevermind, I r dumb, this is the spoiler thread lol.

[Cattleya]

Only one minor complaint I had about Heavensward story is that the Ul'dah situation was solved kind of easily. I was expecting we would have to storm the Syndicate with the help of Ishgard and would need to purge Lolorito from power. I do realize, however, that the way the whole thing was settled left us right in the middle of the Syndicate influence, we kind of reached some sort of "truce", and Lolorito will certainly cause more trouble again in the future, so it was a satisfying development.

Also, I hope we don't find every single Scion. 2.55 ending was kind of dramatic, and finding out that Nanamo didn't die was already a bit anti-climatic, after such a huge probable death toll... It would be engaging to discover someone won't make it, maybe Tancred. We need to bear some scars of all the Before the Fall scenarios.

That said... Y'shtola really rocks now!

I feel like getting rid of Thancred now would be pointless, might as well have offed him at the praetorium in that case.

Now, Papalymo on the other hand..first time he's been in real danger, and who even likes that guy?

[Aberrict]

Here are the two questions at the forefront of my mind after finishing the Main Story Quests:

Who is the Warrior of Darkness?

It appears to be the Generic Hyur from the cutscenes and cinematics. I didn't expect him to be an actual in-game character and the wording used, "you and yours." We have our counterpart, who fills the role of being his Scions? Our Scions? Grabbed as they floated through the Lifestream and forcefully converted to the Darkness?

Where are the last two of Midgardsormr's seven children?

Five are known to us: Bahamut, Nidhogg, Hraesvelgr, Ratatoskr, Tiamat. Where are the other two? What are they doing?

[Remilia]

Where are the other two? What are they doing?

Having fun, I don't know. Can probably look at some older FF games and start guessing?

There is the dark counterpart to Hydaelin (I butchered that spelling I know it). I know the dark crystal has a name, I don't remember what it is cause he only gets mentioned like, twice.
Like how we're a servant of Hydaelin and chosen as a Warrior of Light, I imagine the opposite is true for Warrior of Dark.

[Cattleya]

Here are the two questions at the forefront of my mind after finishing the Main Story Quests:

Who is the Warrior of Darkness?

It appears to be the Generic Hyur from the cutscenes and cinematics. I didn't expect him to be an actual in-game character and the wording used, "you and yours." We have our counterpart, who fills the role of being his Scions? Our Scions? Grabbed as they floated through the Lifestream and forcefully converted to the Darkness?

Where are the last two of Midgardsormr's seven children?

Five are known to us: Bahamut, Nidhogg, Hraesvelgr, Ratatoskr, Tiamat. Where are the other two? What are they doing?

I'd have thought the ascians are the counterpart of the scions. As for the actual identity of the new warrior of darkness, I guess we'll find out in a patch, wonder if it's someone we know, or some new unknown.

Remilia: The dark counterpart's name was Zodiark.

As for the remaining two children of Midgardsormr...well, we can only guess, but Shinryu seems like a decent guess to me for one of them.

(it's okay to not use spoiler tags, right? the thread's marked heavensward spoilers, after all)

[Madruga]

I'd have thought the ascians are the counterpart of the scions. As for the actual identity of the new warrior of darkness, I guess we'll find out in a patch, wonder if it's someone we know, or some new unknown.

Remilia: The dark counterpart's name was Zodiark.

As for the remaining two children of Midgardsormr...well, we can only guess, but Shinryu seems like a decent guess to me for one of them.

(it's okay to not use spoiler tags, right? the thread's marked heavensward spoilers, after all)

I hope so, because in my last post I heavily spoiled a lot of key stuff lol.

I bet we will still see the 2 remaining children of Midgarsorm in this expansion. Yeah, Shinryu would be a good guess. And I was surprised to discover Bahamut is actually one of the 7. Bahamut seems so... much more kickass than Midgarsorm lol.

And we will certainly find more about the Warrior of Darkness, perhaps in next patch. It does seem the Hyur from the cutscenes, but I don't think it is him... He is a representation of the Warrior of Light, that being us, in the cutscenes... When we see him escaping from Ul'dah in the Heavenward trailer, it is actually us escaping... When he decides to be a DRG to face the Horde, it is us doing it. Well, I am still a BRD, but the most efficient dragonkillers in the lore are indeed the Dragoons, so it is a indication of us going the most efficient way to face an enemy, even if just temporarily.

Maybe it is... Tancred! (Dunno why I want him to die so much, don't ask =D )

[Faroth]

I hope so, because in my last post I heavily spoiled a lot of key stuff lol.

I bet we will still see the 2 remaining children of Midgarsorm in this expansion. Yeah, Shinryu would be a good guess. And I was surprised to discover Bahamut is actually one of the 7. Bahamut seems so... much more kickass than Midgarsorm lol.

Bear in mind, we've never seen Bahamut the dragon, son of Midgardsormr. We've only seen the resurrected, altered into a primal by way of ritual guided by Ascian influence Bahamut.

And we will certainly find more about the Warrior of Darkness, perhaps in next patch. It does seem the Hyur from the cutscenes, but I don't think it is him... He is a representation of the Warrior of Light, that being us, in the cutscenes... When we see him escaping from Ul'dah in the Heavenward trailer, it is actually us escaping... When he decides to be a DRG to face the Horde, it is us doing it. Well, I am still a BRD, but the most efficient dragonkillers in the lore are indeed the Dragoons, so it is a indication of us going the most efficient way to face an enemy, even if just temporarily.

I was surprised in game they didn't use the player model for the Warrior of Darkness.


The thing I didn't like about Heavensward story is the explanation of the Primals being essentially nothing more than a figment of imagination and misguided or blind faith given physical form. Regardless of real life religious beliefs, I much prefer fantasy worlds wher demi-god like beings are definitely real and their own thing. Plus it felt a little like "if you believe in yourself enough, you can become a Primal!" I suppose Iceheart had the faith and belief of her followers, plus Hydaelyn's blessing, to allow her to become her imagination's vision of Shiva?

Yet at the same time, it feels like the Ascians offering a way to resurrect the slain Bahamut only for him to become a primal of fury seems somewhat counter to the notion of it being a matter of faith-given-form.

Either way, I really didn't like Hrasvelgar's explanation of what the Primals actually are.

[Deleted]

I was surprised in game they didn't use the player model for the Warrior of Darkness.

I believe however, it'll come down to it being you
As for the reason why they didn't take your model, I can't say either, maybe it'd way to awkward if you see yourself in a bunny suit on the moon? Who knows, would destory the atmosphere for sure.

[Lathais]

Bear in mind, we've never seen Bahamut the dragon, son of Midgardsormr. We've only seen the resurrected, altered into a primal by way of ritual guided by Ascian influence Bahamut.



I was surprised in game they didn't use the player model for the Warrior of Darkness.


The thing I didn't like about Heavensward story is the explanation of the Primals being essentially nothing more than a figment of imagination and misguided or blind faith given physical form. Regardless of real life religious beliefs, I much prefer fantasy worlds wher demi-god like beings are definitely real and their own thing. Plus it felt a little like "if you believe in yourself enough, you can become a Primal!" I suppose Iceheart had the faith and belief of her followers, plus Hydaelyn's blessing, to allow her to become her imagination's vision of Shiva?

Yet at the same time, it feels like the Ascians offering a way to resurrect the slain Bahamut only for him to become a primal of fury seems somewhat counter to the notion of it being a matter of faith-given-form.

Either way, I really didn't like Hrasvelgar's explanation of what the Primals actually are.

Well, there are the real Primals. Hreasvelgar(sp?) knew the real Shiva, but the Shiva we fought was not it. So perhaps the real primals will come in to play later, but we have to deal with the immediate threat first. The real one did exist at some point, that's where the memory that was given life came from. We just don't know what happened to them or where they are yet. Plenty of room in future expansions for this to come in to play though. I think this was kind of jinted at in the King Moggle Mog fight too, where they kinda admitted he's not a real Primal, just a manifestation, but that the real King Moggle Mog had existed in the past somewhere.

[Faroth]

Well, there are the real Primals. Hreasvelgar(sp?) knew the real Shiva, but the Shiva we fought was not it. So perhaps the real primals will come in to play later, but we have to deal with the immediate threat first. The real one did exist at some point, that's where the memory that was given life came from. We just don't know what happened to them or where they are yet. Plenty of room in future expansions for this to come in to play though. I think this was kind of jinted at in the King Moggle Mog fight too, where they kinda admitted he's not a real Primal, just a manifestation, but that the real King Moggle Mog had existed in the past somewhere.

That was part of the point, though. Shiva that he knew was just an elf, an Ishgardian who wished for peace with dragons and fell in love with him, and he with her. She was never an ice aspected demigod and in the end, he gave in to her pleas and ate her.

Look at the Knights of the Round, same thing. 12 Ishgardians of legend, their story became a founding part of Ishgard's history and belief in their leadership and now the current inner circle use the empowerment of that faith to become Primals themselves.

It would be like Zeus forming during Ancient Greece's times because people believed in him, regardless of whether there was a real Zeus-god at one time. It seems like it's just stories that become legends and a foundation of faith now given form. That particularly seems the case with Shiva and Moggle Mog.

The only monkey in the wrench is the manifestations are stronger based on how many crystals offered up and the manifestations talk about Hydaelyn as though they know "her." That and Bahamut being a slain/twisted resurrection of a (somewhat) standard dragon.

[Anzaman]

As for the reason why they didn't take your model, I can't say either, maybe it'd way to awkward if you see yourself in a bunny suit on the moon? Who knows, would destory the atmosphere for sure.

Sometime ago somebody posted screenshots from Dark Knight's job-story, I've no idea what happens in the story as I haven't done it (yet), but they managed to use your character model with another armor-set.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...psy002djnw.png
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps5sggacyb.png

[Madruga]

Bear in mind, we've never seen Bahamut the dragon, son of Midgardsormr. We've only seen the resurrected, altered into a primal by way of ritual guided by Ascian influence Bahamut.



I was surprised in game they didn't use the player model for the Warrior of Darkness.


The thing I didn't like about Heavensward story is the explanation of the Primals being essentially nothing more than a figment of imagination and misguided or blind faith given physical form. Regardless of real life religious beliefs, I much prefer fantasy worlds wher demi-god like beings are definitely real and their own thing. Plus it felt a little like "if you believe in yourself enough, you can become a Primal!" I suppose Iceheart had the faith and belief of her followers, plus Hydaelyn's blessing, to allow her to become her imagination's vision of Shiva?

Yet at the same time, it feels like the Ascians offering a way to resurrect the slain Bahamut only for him to become a primal of fury seems somewhat counter to the notion of it being a matter of faith-given-form.

Either way, I really didn't like Hrasvelgar's explanation of what the Primals actually are.

Ah, it is true, Tiamat does say the Bahamut the Ascians brought was just a twisted form. Still, it is quite badass! =D

Actually, I think all the Primals we fight exist/existed in real form, they just get transformed based on the beliefs of their followers. Or maybe not just the beliefs, but the kind of ritual is used to bring them to life.

So, Ifrit was just a prominent Amaljaa, Titan was a Kobold, Ramuh was a Sylph, and so on. That would make sense, since we already know Shiva was just a Ishgardian and Bahamut was a Great Dragon.

[Berethos08]

Regardless of real life religious beliefs, I much prefer fantasy worlds wher demi-god like beings are definitely real and their own thing.

I think that's what the eikons may turn out to be.

Up until the Heavensward story, the information we had was that the name "eikon" was just what the Garleans called primals. Now we know that eikons - like the Warring Triad, I believe - are different than primals, and the Garleans simply used the name because the Allagans did but attributed it to the wrong type of creature.

There's not enough that I've seen to yet to say whether the Warring Triad is serving a similar capacity to the primal Bahamut, in that the Allagans trapped them to use them as a power source, but it seems right now that they were locked away simply because they were dangerous...and nothing seems to be feeding them power the way you would a primal (like Bahamut in Dalamud).

I think we're close to encountering the real demi-gods of Eorzea, rather than the manifestations of desire/belief.

- - - Updated - - -

Ah, it is true, Tiamat does say the Bahamut the Ascians brought was just a twisted form. Still, it is quite badass! =D

Actually, I think all the Primals we fight exist/existed in real form, they just get transformed based on the beliefs of their followers. Or maybe not just the beliefs, but the kind of ritual is used to bring them to life.

So, Ifrit was just a prominent Amaljaa, Titan was a Kobold, Ramuh was a Sylph, and so on. That would make sense, since we already know Shiva was just a Ishgardian and Bahamut was a Great Dragon.

Some did.

Good King Moggle Mog XII? His existence is based on the stories and myths told by the Moogles of the Twelveswood. Those stories are a far removed version of the real events and real Moogle named Moglin that you meet in the Churning Mists.

Most probably had a real counter part that was - in truth - far less important/powerful and in some cases vastly different than the versions created by the primal...but in most cases, weren't gods in any sense. Closest would be Bahamut as the child of Midgardsormr, since those dragons can become quite powerful on their own...but still not gods or demi-gods.

The forgotten eikons, on the other hand? Those I don't think are twisted/changed versions of the real thing...but real and powerful entities in their own right.

[Madruga]

I think that's what the eikons may turn out to be.

Up until the Heavensward story, the information we had was that the name "eikon" was just what the Garleans called primals. Now we know that eikons - like the Warring Triad, I believe - are different than primals, and the Garleans simply used the name because the Allagans did but attributed it to the wrong type of creature.

There's not enough that I've seen to yet to say whether the Warring Triad is serving a similar capacity to the primal Bahamut, in that the Allagans trapped them to use them as a power source, but it seems right now that they were locked away simply because they were dangerous...and nothing seems to be feeding them power the way you would a primal (like Bahamut in Dalamud).

I think we're close to encountering the real demi-gods of Eorzea, rather than the manifestations of desire/belief.

- - - Updated - - -



Some did.

Good King Moggle Mog XII? His existence is based on the stories and myths told by the Moogles of the Twelveswood. Those stories are a far removed version of the real events and real Moogle named Moglin that you meet in the Churning Mists.

Most probably had a real counter part that was - in truth - far less important/powerful and in some cases vastly different than the versions created by the primal...but in most cases, weren't gods in any sense. Closest would be Bahamut as the child of Midgardsormr, since those dragons can become quite powerful on their own...but still not gods or demi-gods.

The forgotten eikons, on the other hand? Those I don't think are twisted/changed versions of the real thing...but real and powerful entities in their own right.

I do want to se the Warring Triad, and hope they will have the same song as in FF6! I expect to see them still in this expansion, though they seem to be on par with Bahamut and the Heavensward equivalent so far is Alexander... Though Alexander probably also is an Eikon in the Allagan sense!

Now, about Good King Moogle Mog XII... I'll now spoil in the spoil thread, regarding the BRD quests! Putting in spoiler tags because I expect very few people have seen that.

##SPOILER:##
After you find the Ballad of Oblivion in Churning Mists, you get to talk to Moglin along Sanson, Guydelot and the Moogle from the surface (kupo-somehthing). They speak about the legend of Good King Moogle Mog XII.

On the sky side, Moglin say the continents have been shatered and, due to lack of recources to survive, the moogles decided to find a new place to live, and thus go to the surface. On Kupo-something side, he says the story is similar, but it was Good King Moogle Mog XII who made a giant rope from the sky to the ground. Then, Moglin say that Mog was his descendant, something like the great-great-grandfather, and was also the leader of one tribe! And the Kingsguard we fight in the trial is the equivalent to the Pomguard of Churning Mists.

So, Good King Moogle Mog XII actually existed and was a real Moogle, just probably not a king.
##SPOILER:##

EDIT: I don't know how to put the black spoiler text mark aaahhhh help!

Added for you. Use [spoiler][/spoiler] with the text in between.
-Remilia.

[Berethos08]

Now that you mention it, I think the side quests in Churning Mists make mention of him being a descendant rather than *the* Moogle the stories are based upon. So many Moogle quests it's no surprise I forgot some details.

For black spoiler bars you use spoiler and /spoiler inside brackets like [this], one at the start of what you want hidden and one at the end. That said, since this is a spoiler marked thread, I don't think we're too worried about it here, but it is useful to know for the other threads.

[Remilia]

Now that you mention it, I think the side quests in Churning Mists make mention of him being a descendant rather than *the* Moogle the stories are based upon. So many Moogle quests it's no surprise I forgot some details.

What sticks in my mind for the moogle was more like they're indirectly trying to kill you knowingly or not.

[Cattleya]

I've begun to actually talk to all the NPCs in the Rising Stones, some of it is surprisingly interesting to read (at some point one of them mentions F'lhaminn is hiding out in the Limsa port after being assaulted by some thugs, for example).

I'm also glad to see Hoary Boulder's gone but not forgotten, his brother's with us searching for him now

[Aberrict]

I was thinking today about a rather important story thread that has been conspicuous due to its absence.

What did Urianger and Elidibus talk about at the end of 2.55?

I listened and read everything Urianger said closely when he appeared in Heavensward, but detected nothing that our characters would think was suspicious. We, the players, know that Urianger is withholding information from us. Why though? Why is he not informing us?

The only hint (or least I believe it's a hint) is the "eighth Rejoining" Elidibus mentioned. Which is their term for an Umbral Era (we ended the seventh at the end of the 2.0 MSQ chain.) I think they'll try to bring it about by unleashing the War Triad.

On a unrelated note I thought Y'mhitra, Y'shtola's half-sister, was just someone they created in 3.0 to help bring Y'shtola back. I didn't realized she's heavily involved in the Summoner questline and that Y'shtola mentioned her in the 2.55 cutscene just before she brought the tunnel down. So much stuff I haven't discovered yet!

I've begun to actually talk to all the NPCs in the Rising Stones, some of it is surprisingly interesting to read (at some point one of them mentions F'lhaminn is hiding out in the Limsa port after being assaulted by some thugs, for example).

I'm also glad to see Hoary Boulder's gone but not forgotten, his brother's with us searching for him now

I love that the favor text of NPCs changes after MSQs. Really makes it feel like what your doing is impacting the world around you.