I'm replaying Warcraft 3 and...

[Felpacino]

The game is so goddamn alive. I'm on 3rd mission of the Undead Campaign now and Arthas' arc had dominated the Human Campaign. I'm starting to lose my sympathy with Arthas, because he has no soul now. He just does what he's ordered. He's anything like how he was, but I don't think he's completely lost his soul yet. He still get surprised, feels things. IMO, even without the Frostmourne, he would gone evil. Not much as this, but still.

The characters were so realistic and you could feel that Azeroth was under big threat by multiple factions. Big conflicts were going on and these conflicts were essential in the story. These conflicts made the story alive.

Arthas was so cool. He was a hot headed leader who can give anything for his people. Perfect leader IMO. Until, he betrayed the mercenaries and lied to his troops kill them(Ship sinking mission). Of course I was shocked when Arthas suspends Uther from being a paladin. I didn't remember these things and thank god I didn't.

So, I figured out that Arthas has changed the whole world of Azeroth and there is no one has ever been who made as much as change as him. We need a new protagonist. Strong, good or neutral, badass protagonist. I wouldn't mind if he/she is evil. We have to like that character, that's all. Arthas was a lovable character, don't judge him when he was the Lich King. True Arthas was a paladin who sacrificed himself for his own people. Still, when he was a death knight, he made his best for his Undead people. He couldn't became the King of Lordaeron, but he became the Lich King. Sad story, but a good story.

[Alexanderjac]

They tried with Thrall and Garrosh... It didn't work lol

[Felpacino]

They tried with Thrall and Garrosh... It didn't work lol

But Garrosh was a fascist like Garithos and no one liked Garithos. Garrosh was arrogant, Thrall is not. Yet, Thrall is soft. Arthas is one tough motherfucker.

[Matius]

Arthas was a great character, one of my favourite in terms of personality, story arc and image. And I love his dread sense of humour

What WoW needs nowadays is competent and realistic storyline with live characters, characters that have a strong personality and realistically respond to whatever they face, not like Garrosh who has a change of heart every expansion or artificially buried characters like Thrall up to Cataclysm or Magni. They don't need to have greater role every time but even small interactions will enliven the world.

[Sj]

Warcraft 3's storytelling was just phenomenal. The voice acting was pretty good and that helped a lot. Sylvanas's original voice actor was so good.

Also, my favorite re-telling of the scene before the Culling of Stratholme.

[May90]

IMO, they should just trash whatever happened in WoW for the sake of MMO world, and make Warcraft 4 starting at the point of Warcraft 3: TFT final cinematics. Warcraft 3 story was phenomenal, not every RPG has so many amazing characters with different pre-histories and fates. While WoW story was just "OK, let's somehow put everyone in either of 2 main factions and make them fight each other", and with expansions recycling parts of the old lore it just went downhill.

[Felpacino]

Warcraft 3's storytelling was just phenomenal. The voice acting was pretty good and that helped a lot. Sylvanas's original voice actor was so good.

Also, my favorite re-telling of the scene before the Culling of Stratholme.

"Seasoning? Have you sauced your mince, Arthas?" Omg I laughed so hard.

Btw for voice acting, Arthas' voice gets corrupted overtime, even before he takes Frostmourne. In the 2nd mission, he gets upset about Blademaster's sacrificing Arthas' people for demonic purposes. When he meets face to face with Kel'thuzad, it's the first time we see him that angry. Things would never be the same again. He loses his sanity by time for vengeance and he loses the people he loved. The only moment his voice back to normal in the intro of Culling the Stratholme when he says: "Jaina?" Then only before his death, he'll be mad and so as his voice. Only Jaina and maybe Uther could make him normal. Jaina made an exodus to the west with Humans and Uther died. No hope for him, so sad.

IMO, they should just trash whatever happened in WoW for the sake of MMO world, and make Warcraft 4 starting at the point of Warcraft 3: TFT final cinematics. Warcraft 3 story was phenomenal, not every RPG has so many amazing characters with different pre-histories and fates. While WoW story was just "OK, let's somehow put everyone in either of 2 main factions and make them fight each other", and with expansions recycling parts of the old lore it just went downhill.

That would be nice, but which one would be canon? We've seen a lot of things in WoW.

[Foxhoundn]

I just wish there was an Android version. I can never make myself play it on the PC where I have other games to play :/

[Saladfork]

It wasn't too bad this xpac. I liked that thrall & garrosh carried over, and the chars this xpac were pretty exciting. Not "wc3 exciting", but still pretty fun to witness. But I'm not sure if I'd feel the same attachment to characters in an MMO as I would to characters in an RTS (or any contained world). It is tough on the dev side. It was honestly easier when it was an RTS, both on the dev and the player side (lore-coherency).

Also, my favorite re-telling of the scene before the Culling of Stratholme.

lol that was amazing to read.

[Deleted]

Arthas sacrificed himself for his people? The way i remember it is he sacrificed his people for vengeance.

I find it very weird how this paladin, so easily manipulated to hatred and vengeance, then later somehow finds the strength to hold the undead at bay. Tirion and Bolvar are the badass paladins, they never faltered. (Uther is overhyped, but maybe that's cause i didnt play war2. Alexandros is neat too though i don't understand why he could be raised as a death knight when Bolvar was able to resist, guess he was sad because of the betrayal.)

[Cracked]

It's exactly why WoW needs Warcraft 4. There is little story left.

[lawow74]

Those hilariously bad face portrait animations, though! I've seen better mouth control on a Muppet!

[RoKPaNda]

If only Arthas of WoW wasn't a total pansy with daddy issues, and if only we got to face Ner'zhul as Lich King instead of whining Arthas. We got boned. They shit all over the WarCraft 3 lore with WotLK.

[axell]

If only Arthas of WoW wasn't a total pansy with daddy issues, and if only we got to face Ner'zhul as Lich King instead of whining Arthas. We got boned. They shit all over the WarCraft 3 lore with WotLK.

To be fair Arthas always was a spoiled brat with daddy issues. Even in Warcraft 3 he was just a tool. I've always regarded Arthas as more of a vessel. Most of his actions were either from the orders of the burning legion, the council of Kel'Thuzad and the influence of Ner'zhul. He was just the perfect target. In Wotlk having supressed the spirit of Ner'zhul, he was more himself than he was at any point after his soul being captured by frostmourne.

[McNeil]

Its still a great game, its story tops everything WoW ever gave us. Arthas was such a great character, and was atleast given a solid end in WotLK, I really would've liked if he somehow got redeemed and returned as a paladin. I guess they tried to make Garrosh the new Arthas, but he turned to a complete trainwreck.

I like the idea of Warcraft 4 continuing its own story after WC3, keeping its quality writing.

[Felpacino]

Arthas sacrificed himself for his people? The way i remember it is he sacrificed his people for vengeance.

I find it very weird how this paladin, so easily manipulated to hatred and vengeance, then later somehow finds the strength to hold the undead at bay. Tirion and Bolvar are the badass paladins, they never faltered. (Uther is overhyped, but maybe that's cause i didnt play war2. Alexandros is neat too though i don't understand why he could be raised as a death knight when Bolvar was able to resist, guess he was sad because of the betrayal.)

Well, let me explain: At first, he wanted to protect his people from Undead diseases. That was his goal. Once Kel'thuzad mentions the name of the one who is behind these things, Mal'ganis, Arthas went after him. He could do anything to get to him. His personality was balanced at the moment, both vengeful and careful about his people.

He made Uther and Jaina upset before Stratholme, the ones who loved. After they're gone, he's left with only his vengeance, nothing more. When Mal'ganis was adding the folk into his army, Arthas said: "Better that these people die by my hand than serve as your slaves in death" The matter became personal. If Arthas could kill Mal'ganis in Stratholme, he still would be a paladin. He lost his sanity overtime due to his vengeance.

The king called the army back, because the mission was too dangerous. Arthas made the ships burned and his people couldn't go back. He sacrificed his people at that moment, yes, but there is more.

In the final mission, before he took Frostmourne, they were surrounded and there was no hope. When he was about to take Frostmourne, he said: "I will give anything or pay any price, if only you will help me save my people." At that moment, Arthas sacrificed himself for his people. Lets say, he sacrificed himself while seeking vengeance for his people.

He seeked revenge, yet he cared his people until he lost his soul. That makes him a 3-dimensional character. That makes him a great character.

Arthas was a flawed paladin, there is a foreshadowing at the beginning in 2nd mission, where he wanted to kill the Blademaster who sacrificed his people for demonic deeds. If he was a D&D character, he would be either Inquisitor or Undead Hunter, but not a complete paladin. On the other hand, Tirion and Bolvar are complete paladins, like Uther.

[NightHaawk]

For fuck sakes you guys are pathetic. You just cannot miss the opportunity to bitch about wow some more can you?

[kail]

For fuck sakes you guys are pathetic. You just cannot miss the opportunity to bitch about wow some more can you?

Something made you upset today?

OT: I only felt WoW's story going under once WotLK closed out. The ending they gave to Arthas was great IMO. If they will do a WC 4, they could include the general Story of WotLK or even continue after it (wouldn't make much sense though as a sequel).

[Deleted]

I don't think there should be main characters in MMOs, I would prefer something like Runescape, cameos, for instance you'd meet a character in a quest, help them out and learn more about them and when the quest is done you'd go off again and do your own thing, occasionally you'd see them fighting a mob or resting by a campfire when exploring the world and you could talk to them and see what they've been up to and learn more about them that way until your paths eventually cross again in another quest, a dungeon or maybe a raid.

I'll give you an example of what I'm saying:

On the Alliance frontlines you'd rescue a soldier determined to prove her worth and rise to the top of the Alliance. Her name would be Private Jenkins, she'd thank you for helping her and the next time you'd meet her again maybe in the next zone or the next quest hub she'd be drilling with other Alliance troops and she'd be named Corporal Jenkins instead, and her gear would've changed, the next time you'd meet her it'd be in a quest, and she'd be Captain Jenkins, but now she regrets becoming a Captain because she's unsure whether she's fit to lead, you'd help her in a quest taking an enemy fortification and she'd stay and defend it while you moved on to do other stuff, and then at some point in your travels after not having seen her in a long time you'd find her dead body on the ground with her squad because they were ambushed by orcs.

That to me is better storytelling than Blizzard making everything about Thrall or Garrosh or what have you. Sometimes simple is good.

[Sj]

I don't think there should be main characters in MMOs

I agree to an extent, but after a while things can get stale. I think having villains is great, personally, but having "good guy" main characters really takes away from my personal experience as an adventurer. Pre-BC and Burning Crusade had a good balance of existing story and an open narrative. The bad was there, the good was there, there was a threat to you as a player and the world as a setting; these driving narratives that started with Wrath, in my opinion, took away from the adventure. The game started to subvert my story with its own.

Not saying WoW is a bad game by any means, just that the storytelling went in a direction that wasn't in line with my personal tastes.