Does Tavern Brawl count as an expansion? When is the next real expansion?

[Ravex]

Please quote any and all posts I've made where I said I don't like the game or I am unhappy with the game. What you (and a couple other people) have done here is take a post I made pointing out a couple facts I've observed about Blizzard's newest addition to HS, and conflate it with viewpoints I've not only never expressed, but do not actually hold. I'm sorry if you are unable to have a discussion about something without getting worked up and then making inferences about someone that have no basis in reality.

If I didn't like HS or was unhappy with HS, I'm sure I would have made a post clearly stating as much. Maybe you should wait for that post to appear in this thread before you act like it was made.

I made a statement about the number of games I've played in each mode to make a point about how compelling each game mode is. I find it humorous that you're trying to use part of that statement as a metric for my 'experience' with the game. Tell me, where does the line between experienced/inexperienced fall? For that matter, tell me how experience translates to skill or any other meaningful metric one might use to understand where a player falls on the spectrum of legitimate viewpoints.

ZERO FACTS. PURE OPINION.

Pure opinion is fine, and you are welcome to it, trying to pass your own views as facts like you ALWAYS DO, is not fine.

Well the reason I used your amount of games as a metric to your experience is because because the amount of games you have played is your damn experience.

Considering I have about 5 times as many wins as you, not counting losses, and don't count myself at a top top level of the game, you sure as hell shouldn't.

"For that matter, tell me how experience translates to skill or any other meaningful metric one might use to understand where a player falls on the spectrum of legitimate viewpoints."

You have made "interesting" posts about cards no one uses that are great, and now features that people love/like. When countered the only argument you make is the good old "Well I am right obviously and you are wrong." If that is the road you are gonna take in arguments, that is fine, but you sure as hell better have a lot more experience then who you are saying is wrong, or at least SOMETHING worth a damn to back yourself up.

Playing a few games and becoming a self proclaimed expert at anything involving this game is just not going to work with anybody.

- - - Updated - - -

You are, yet again, ignoring the point of underwhelming is not something you claim as fact for a feature for everyone, like you did.

This is like 2 posts now where I agree with you.

You need to stop it, screwing up the dynamic.

[Eroginous]

Considering I have about 5 times as many wins as you, not counting losses, and don't count myself at a top top level of the game, you sure as hell shouldn't.

The number of wins anyone has is not relevant to the point I was making. My point was about the number of games played in each mode. If all game modes are equally fun/engaging/challenging/interesting, then it would be hard for a player to not play each mode relatively equally. If one mode is more of these things than the others, it would begin to pull away from the others in terms of games played.

Sharing the number of games I've won in each mode was an attempt to illustrate to you how underwhelming arena/tavern brawls are compared to play mode. Obviously, you didn't understand the point, because here we are, discussing how you think the number of wins you have is relevant.

You have made "interesting" posts about cards no one uses that are great, and now features that people love/like. When countered the only argument you make is the good old "Well I am right obviously and you are wrong."

You haven't countered anything I've said. You've ignored it and made claims that involve things I've never said, while intentionally derailing any conversation that might have happened had you actually addressed the points I've made. Tavern Brawls, as a feature, is underwhelming. It lacks depth, replay value, and only really serves as a way to get a free pack of cards every week.

Playing a few games and becoming a self proclaimed expert at anything involving this game is just not going to work with anybody.

1. I've never claimed to be an expert.

2. Even if I had made such a claim, Hearthstone is a very simple game (it runs on phones, FFS) with very simple game mechanics and a small card pool. It wouldn't take more than a few games to become an expert anyway.

3. My HS experience isn't limited to just playing HS. For those of you who live under a rock, HS is literally a rehash of the Wow TCG, which is a clone of MTG, which is a game I've been playing for the last ~20 years. Many things that apply to MTG, apply to HS. Someone who is good at MTG, can hop into HS with very little problems and become a good player in a short amount of time.

4. These are facts. You should probably learn what those are, and how they are different from opinions.

[Mormolyce]

I like Tavern Brawl, because I like to have fun.
What I don't like is tryhards who play Mage in Tavern Brawl this week.

Warlock was about as good as mage

[Ravex]

Against my better judgment I'm going to keep this going.

The number of wins anyone has is not relevant to the point I was making. My point was about the number of games played in each mode. If all game modes are equally fun/engaging/challenging/interesting, then it would be hard for a player to not play each mode relatively equally. If one mode is more of these things than the others, it would begin to pull away from the others in terms of games played.

Sharing the number of games I've won in each mode was an attempt to illustrate to you how underwhelming arena/tavern brawls are compared to play mode. Obviously, you didn't understand the point, because here we are, discussing how you think the number of wins you have is relevant.

You're making broad statements about the game and components of the game, yes your experience counts for something. Its like me playing a few games of Dota and deciding for the world what heroes are good and bad.

The fact that you don't like arena and brawl means fuck all honestly, there are many, MANY people out there that love the game modes. Your opinion is a drop in the bucket and holds no weight.

You haven't countered anything I've said. You've ignored it and made claims that involve things I've never said, while intentionally derailing any conversation that might have happened had you actually addressed the points I've made. Tavern Brawls, as a feature, is underwhelming. It lacks depth, replay value, and only really serves as a way to get a free pack of cards every week.

It's hard to counter anything when all you do is stick your fingers in you ears and scream "I AM RIGHT EVERYONE ELSES OPINION THAT DIFFERS FROM MINE IS WRONG!" If you would concede on the MANY points you have been wrong on, someone could actually have a conversation with you on here. That is impossible for you it seems.

1. I've never claimed to be an expert.

2. Even if I had made such a claim, Hearthstone is a very simple game (it runs on phones, FFS) with very simple game mechanics and a small card pool. It wouldn't take more than a few games to become an expert anyway.

3. My HS experience isn't limited to just playing HS. For those of you who live under a rock, HS is literally a rehash of the Wow TCG, which is a clone of MTG, which is a game I've been playing for the last ~20 years. Many things that apply to MTG, apply to HS. Someone who is good at MTG, can hop into HS with very little problems and become a good player in a short amount of time.

4. These are facts. You should probably learn what those are, and how they are different from opinions.

1. Could of fooled me telling others they are only using certain cards because of "group think", while telling them cards that no one ever plays are actually good.

2. What platforms a game can run on has ZERO relevance to anything. Few games to become an expert? LOL Yea, ok Mr. "I'm not self proclaiming to be an expert.

3.I knew at some point you would try to bring up mtg, HS is a rehash of WoW TCG, are you serious? What because they both have cards? Seriously? As for your big oll 20 years of mtg experience, I myself am pretty damn good at solitaire there for I'm pretty sure I know everything there is to know about every other card game that exists and any future ones that don't even exist yet! See how fucking stupid that sounds?

Here is a big surprise for you too, you're not the only one that also has a lot of experience with mtg, I just know it has no relevance here.

4. If anyone needs to learn the damn difference between a fact and an opinion it's you.

[Eroginous]

You're making broad statements about the game and components of the game, yes your experience counts for something. Its like me playing a few games of Dota and deciding for the world what heroes are good and bad.

The fact that you don't like arena and brawl means fuck all honestly, there are many, MANY people out there that love the game modes. Your opinion is a drop in the bucket and holds no weight.

No, I'm not making broad statements about the game. I'm making a single statement about one feature of the game. A statement that holds true objectively. If you disagree, please explain to me how I'm wrong, rather than continue to talk out of your ass. The fact that you keep reducing my post to 'you don't like tavern brawls' is embarassing. Learn to reading comprehension.

It's hard to counter anything when all you do is stick your fingers in you ears and scream "I AM RIGHT EVERYONE ELSES OPINION THAT DIFFERS FROM MINE IS WRONG!" If you would concede on the MANY points you have been wrong on, someone could actually have a conversation with you on here. That is impossible for you it seems.

What is there to concede? I point out a fact about the game, you shift any potential discussion to how you think I just don't like X or Y and that my posts are just my opinion and they don't mean anything. You keep trying to make this personal and offensive, I'm just trying to contribute to a discussion.

1. Could of fooled me telling others they are only using certain cards because of "group think", while telling them cards that no one ever plays are actually good.

Dr. Boom is in virtually every deck, despite being easy to counter. What does that tell you? Mass dispel counters the mechanic that makes Dr. Boom OP. Really not sure why it's so difficult for you or anyone else to understand this.

2. What platforms a game can run on has ZERO relevance to anything. Few games to become an expert? LOL Yea, ok Mr. "I'm not self proclaiming to be an expert.

In order to be a self-proclaimed expert, one has to make the claim that they are in fact, an expert. Please quote where I've done this.

3.I knew at some point you would try to bring up mtg, HS is a rehash of WoW TCG, are you serious? What because they both have cards? Seriously? As for your big oll 20 years of mtg experience, I myself am pretty damn good at solitaire there for I'm pretty sure I know everything there is to know about every other card game that exists and any future ones that don't even exist yet! See how fucking stupid that sounds?

Yes, you sound pretty fucking ridiculous, as usual. The difference between solitaire and MTG/HS is a lot bigger than the difference between MTG and HS. It's basically an ocean of difference. HS is a stripped down version of MTG, just like the Wow TCG was. Do you really want me to highlight all the similarities?

4. If anyone needs to learn the damn difference between a fact and an opinion it's you.

I've got 99 problems and knowing what facts are, is definitely not one of them.

[BicycleMafioso]

Mtg is a genre-defining game with established and celebrated success.
Of course there will be similarities, just like how much of (random example) sci-fi and fantasy et c today are inspired by people like Jules Verne, HP Lovecraft, JRR Tolkien and such.
It is inevitable.

Personally, while I did start with HS before Mtg, I'm a pretty avid Mtg player these days, so to the point that I play it more than HS.
They are very different and feel very different. I enjoy them for their variety. I enjoy Magic, I enjoy Commander even more (which is a Magic format different enough to be its own :P) and I did enjoy playing Pokémon TCG in 99 and in the year 2000. This does not, I feel, retract from HS or its greatness.

On-topic:
The content and pacing for HS works and has worked very well, imo. Maybe baseline was just a tad bit longer than it needed to be - but then again, I was in the beta or maybe even alpha, but probably not. Mid 2013 sometime I think? Anyway, it felt longer for me.
I enjoy the Tavern Brawl mode greatly, but I wish people would just relax and have fun more rather than picking "optimised" classes for what is really a casual mode without rewards - what I prefer.

[Eroginous]

Mtg is a genre-defining game with established and celebrated success.
Of course there will be similarities, just like how much of (random example) sci-fi and fantasy et c today are inspired by people like Jules Verne, HP Lovecraft, JRR Tolkien and such.
It is inevitable.

It's not just 'some similarities.' The entire structure of the game, the way it plays out, the things you do, the very concepts and card designs, are all things that exist in MTG, with just different names. While there are some things that exist in HS that don't exist in MTG, this is because HS is a video game and can have mechanics that MTG doesn't have (stealth, Freezes, divine shield).

Making trades in minion combat, playing for card/tempo advantage, being limited on resources, all in the same way as you are in MTG. HS just doesn't have the depth of MTG or the card pool.

Personally, while I did start with HS before Mtg, I'm a pretty avid Mtg player these days, so to the point that I play it more than HS.
They are very different and feel very different. I enjoy them for their variety. I enjoy Magic, I enjoy Commander even more (which is a Magic format different enough to be its own :P) and I did enjoy playing Pokémon TCG in 99 and in the year 2000. This does not, I feel, retract from HS or its greatness.

The sheer number of formats is one of the greatest things about MTG. Anyone can jump in and play and have a plethora of methods by which to enjoy themselves. And I agree, both games have their merits. But I don't feel that HS is living up to its potential, especially with its latest feature.

On-topic:
The content and pacing for HS works and has worked very well, imo. Maybe baseline was just a tad bit longer than it needed to be - but then again, I was in the beta or maybe even alpha, but probably not. Mid 2013 sometime I think? Anyway, it felt longer for me.
I enjoy the Tavern Brawl mode greatly, but I wish people would just relax and have fun more rather than picking "optimised" classes for what is really a casual mode without rewards - what I prefer.

Can you elaborate on what you enjoy about Tavern Brawl? Also, would you be willing to suggest ways it could be made better?

[Jester Joe]

No, I'm not making broad statements about the game. I'm making a single statement about one feature of the game. A statement that holds true objectively. If you disagree, please explain to me how I'm wrong, rather than continue to talk out of your ass. The fact that you keep reducing my post to 'you don't like tavern brawls' is embarassing. Learn to reading comprehension.

I still have yet to see you give a reason why Tavern Brawl is underwhelming besides just your own experience with it. So yes, it's going to keep boiling down to "Well you just don't like it".

It gives an easier way for new players to get their quests done with Brawls like this week and the Rag/Nef one, it gives something unique and interesting to do every week, and it's completely and utterly free. I'm not sure how it could be underwhelming at all.

[Ravex]

No, I'm not making broad statements about the game. I'm making a single statement about one feature of the game. A statement that holds true objectively. If you disagree, please explain to me how I'm wrong, rather than continue to talk out of your ass. The fact that you keep reducing my post to 'you don't like tavern brawls' is embarassing. Learn to reading comprehension.



What is there to concede? I point out a fact about the game, you shift any potential discussion to how you think I just don't like X or Y and that my posts are just my opinion and they don't mean anything. You keep trying to make this personal and offensive, I'm just trying to contribute to a discussion.



Dr. Boom is in virtually every deck, despite being easy to counter. What does that tell you? Mass dispel counters the mechanic that makes Dr. Boom OP. Really not sure why it's so difficult for you or anyone else to understand this.



In order to be a self-proclaimed expert, one has to make the claim that they are in fact, an expert. Please quote where I've done this.



Yes, you sound pretty fucking ridiculous, as usual. The difference between solitaire and MTG/HS is a lot bigger than the difference between MTG and HS. It's basically an ocean of difference. HS is a stripped down version of MTG, just like the Wow TCG was. Do you really want me to highlight all the similarities?



I've got 99 problems and knowing what facts are, is definitely not one of them.

Same thing, over and over and over.

"No I didn't ever say that"
"I know what I'm talking about"
"This card is bad because I say so"
"This card is good because I say so"
"My views are not opinions they are facts"

While ignoring EVERYTHING that proves you wrong.

You just keep up what you are doing bud, ignorance is bliss I suppose.

[Eroginous]

I still have yet to see you give a reason why Tavern Brawl is underwhelming besides just your own experience with it. So yes, it's going to keep boiling down to "Well you just don't like it".

Tavern Brawl is a feature of the game. Other features of the game, such as adventure mode, practice mode, play mode, and arena, have more depth, replay value, and rewards offered from them. With Play Mode, you get the standard daily quest gold rewards + 10 gold for every 3 wins, as well as an opportunity to earn new card backs through ranked play. With Arena mode, you get packs, dust, and individual cards in addition to gold. In adventure mode, you get to unlock cards specific to a set that you can't get anywhere else, as well as access to unique class challenges. In Tavern Brawl mode, the only really new addition to the game are cards you don't normally get to play with and an extremely limited amount of time to play it. Otherwise, everything it offers is available in other game modes

This lack of content is why Tavern Brawls are underwhelming. I play it once a week to get a free pack, and then I'm done. It's not even hard to win it in the first game. Since I've answered your question, answer one for me: how has Tavern Brawls impressed you/made a positive impact on your play experience? List for me all of the things that became available to you, which you didn't already have access to before, because of the addition of Tavern Brawls.

It gives an easier way for new players to get their quests done with Brawls like this week and the Rag/Nef one, it gives something unique and interesting to do every week, and it's completely and utterly free. I'm not sure how it could be underwhelming at all.

Considering the fact that access to tavern brawls requires having a level 20 character, that sometimes you'll be required to build a deck from your own pool of cards, and that the rewards structure is extremely limited (one vanilla pack each week), I would disagree that this game mode is meant for new players. Casual players, maybe. By the time you've gotten a hero to level 20 (which is much faster against real players), you're not really a new player any more.

Combine these things with the lack of match making rating, unknown/OP cards, it's kind of difficult to see how a new player is going to have an easier time playing the game in this play mode.

You just keep up what you are doing bud

And you just keep dodging any semblance of a conversation.

[Solmyr13]

I don't like Tavern Brawl but at the same time I don't play it other than the one pack a week.

My issue with Tavern Brawl isn't the luck factor; I would have enjoyed this week if it let me select my class cards for each class and I HAD to have say, 20 webspinners it. Right now though certain classes are just pathetically bad. RNG is obviously the name of the game this week but it's still really stupid that certain classes have to rely stupidly hard on the RNG (Shaman get Bloodlust, how often has ANYONE had more than 3 minions on the board since everyone is trading webspinners?).

The first week was horrendous. Honestly don't want to get into a huge debate since it's been gone for 2 weeks now but Nefarion could have a "Meh" hand and still destroy while Rag HAD to get a really good hand to even have a chance. Coin out Vael or razorgore and the game was over.

Last week was fun with the banana's but it just made people play MORE rush decks. I already face Facehunter's and Demonlocks on ladder all the time I don't want it in the "fun" mode that I play as well. There was no point in trying to play anything resembling control last week and that was my issue.

At the end of the day we can't complain too much; it's a Free game and they ARE at least adding a lot to it. While we all know they're making a ton of money off the purchasing aspects of the game so it helps them to create new content the fact remains they are still putting these things out there. They could have released it, setup random adventures once every 6 months or so and then a new xpac 6 months in between and do cycles like that. Tavern Brawl just isn't for me and I really don't enjoy it.

[Jester Joe]

Since when did getting one class to level 20 make you not a new players anymore? It doesn't suddenly unlock all the class cards for you, or the epics and legendaries you need to get your quests done easily. I mean, my girlfriend has hunter at level 20 and that's literally it. She won't be able to complete any other class quests nor is it feasible to reroll all quests you can't complete.

[Solmyr13]

Since when did getting one class to level 20 make you not a new players anymore? It doesn't suddenly unlock all the class cards for you, or the epics and legendaries you need to get your quests done easily. I mean, my girlfriend has hunter at level 20 and that's literally it. She won't be able to complete any other class quests nor is it feasible to reroll all quests you can't complete.

While she was leveling her hunter up did she not try out other classes? I mean I think even with losses it takes... 10-15 games to get a class to 10 and then you have all their class cards.

[Jester Joe]

While she was leveling her hunter up did she not try out other classes? I mean I think even with losses it takes... 10-15 games to get a class to 10 and then you have all their class cards.

Nope,she's a huntard through and through lol
But even with all the basic class cards,you're still missing big class cards, like Savannah Highmane and what not.

[Solmyr13]

Nope,she's a huntard through and through lol
But even with all the basic class cards,you're still missing big class cards, like Savannah Highmane and what not.

Yeah for sure but based on what you're saying about her she's gonna be matched up against similar people.

[Jester Joe]

Yeah for sure but based on what you're saying about her she's gonna be matched up against similar people.

As long as she sticks to her hunter deck, yes. But outside of that now? Not so lucky.

[Eroginous]

Since when did getting one class to level 20 make you not a new players anymore? It doesn't suddenly unlock all the class cards for you, or the epics and legendaries you need to get your quests done easily. I mean, my girlfriend has hunter at level 20 and that's literally it. She won't be able to complete any other class quests nor is it feasible to reroll all quests you can't complete.

I'm not sure new players are defined by the quality of their cards. Or by what quests they can complete. Or by what other classes they have unlocked. I'm pretty sure a new player is someone who doesn't understand the basic concepts of the game. Someone who does understand the basic concepts of the game, is probably not a new player anymore.

[Jester Joe]

I'm not sure new players are defined by the quality of their cards. Or by what quests they can complete. Or by what other classes they have unlocked. I'm pretty sure a new player is someone who doesn't understand the basic concepts of the game. Someone who does understand the basic concepts of the game, is probably not a new player anymore.

That's quite a bit of stretching there, what else would you call someone who still doesn't have all the basic cards? How could you ignore the size of someone's card collection in a game that your card collection size matters a lot? It seems simple to me, the less cards you have,the newer of a player you are, or the less experienced you are.

[Eroginous]

That's quite a bit of stretching there, what else would you call someone who still doesn't have all the basic cards? How could you ignore the size of someone's card collection in a game that your card collection size matters a lot? It seems simple to me, the less cards you have,the newer of a player you are, or the less experienced you are.

Because the size of your collection is an irrelevant metric. I don't have a Black Lotus or any Power 9. I must be a noob, right? I don't have a Dr. Boom or any neutral minions, I must be a new player, right? My 10 year old doesn't have a single hero at or above level 20. He doesn't even have all of them unlocked. Hell, most of his cards are basic (no epics or legs even, knife juggler is one of his best cards). Yet he understands the game concepts and he's pretty good at the game with his basic decks. He's not a new player.

I don't think you could have picked a more meaningless way to define how new a player is at Hearthstone.

[Jester Joe]

Because the size of your collection is an irrelevant metric. I don't have a Black Lotus or any Power 9. I must be a noob, right? I don't have a Dr. Boom or any neutral minions, I must be a new player, right? My 10 year old doesn't have a single hero at or above level 20. He doesn't even have all of them unlocked. Hell, most of his cards are basic (no epics or legs even, knife juggler is one of his best cards). Yet he understands the game concepts and he's pretty good at the game with his basic decks. He's not a new player.

I don't think you could have picked a more meaningless way to define how new a player is at Hearthstone.

Except you're ignoring that I'm talking about simple cards like rares, like you can't really play shaman without lighting storm and what not, but okay, sure.