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  1. #81
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhine101 View Post
    I'd condemn any religion who has such a large amount of extremist doing such horrid things. I mean, It is the same with Catholic priests. You could go around saying "Not all Catholics condone pedo's" or you can just admit there is a serious problem and it needs to be fixed.

    Why is it only Muslims that we get all defensive about? They have an issue with extremists. Address that shit. Just hand waving while more people get slaughtered doesn't help anything.
    All actions of violence have been condemned by muslim officials both on local, national and international level.

    Islam is part of their identity in a land they don't feel part of often. Neither are they seen part of the country of either origin or that of their parents. So their religion is often an important identifying factor so insulting their religion is taken often as something personal.

    The regular muslim does not like the extremists for that reason either, they give them a bad name and violence in general is not allowed, especially not during the ramadan.

  2. #82
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    Since it's most dominant religion in parts of the world that are most unstable. Nothing to do with the actual religion itself or its contents.
    Simplification. You cant remove the traits altogether and blame a volatile geographical location as pretty much it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    All actions of violence have been condemned by muslim officials both on local, national and international level.
    In terms of Europe, one thing is clear. Saying is one thing... question is, is ME more sincere? Pfff
    But soon after Mr Xi secured a third term, Apple released a new version of the feature in China, limiting its scope. Now Chinese users of iPhones and other Apple devices are restricted to a 10-minute window when receiving files from people who are not listed as a contact. After 10 minutes, users can only receive files from contacts.
    Apple did not explain why the update was first introduced in China, but over the years, the tech giant has been criticised for appeasing Beijing.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    All actions of violence have been condemned by muslim officials both on local, national and international level.

    Islam is part of their identity in a land they don't feel part of often. Neither are they seen part of the country of either origin or that of their parents. So their religion is often an important identifying factor so insulting their religion is taken often as something personal.

    The regular muslim does not like the extremists for that reason either, they give them a bad name and violence in general is not allowed, especially not during the ramadan.
    You did not even address what I said. You sidestepped that to do more handwaving.

    How would you feel if you pointed out that Catholic priests have been molesting a lot of kids lately and I responded with...

    All actions of pedophilia have been condemned by Catholic officials both on local, national and international level.

    Catholicism is part of their identity in a land they don't feel part of often. Neither are they seen part of the country of either origin or that of their parents. So their religion is often an important identifying factor so insulting their religion is taken often as something personal.

    The regular Catholics does not like the Pedos for that reason either, they give them a bad name and pedophelia in general is not allowed, especially not during The holidays.


    You would be like, um okay. But they still have a pedo problem that needs to be dealt with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    No she shouldn't be removed she is an elected official and hasn't broken any laws just hurt some people's feelings.

  4. #84
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhine101 View Post
    I don't think you can say that. For all you know Islam is what is holding them back.

    It is commonly stated that religion is holding back progress in America. Why can't that be possible in those regions? I think that it has some merit. To say that the region is unstable because "Reasons" and Islam has nothing to do with it is suspect at best.

    Another example. Catholicism in the Philippines has been kinda ruining their country for a while. Religion can and has caused issues in countries. Just because we are talking about Islam doesn't suddenly change the rules.
    If you find that islam stands in the way of progress i invite you to read up on history a bit and if you still feel that way you're welcome to lay that out. Do you know that in Islam they do not frown upon abortion? At least not till before first 4 months. It's amusing that while often displayed as a much more strict and close minded religion by those who abuse it, it is actually more open minded this is due to it being a younger religion than Christianity and that science actually played more of a role in that era. I do not believe that religion is a source of instability in those regions.

    Our influence is, dictators are even if they are in the form of spiritual leaders, than there's the whole tribal 'political' system.

    Religion has to be seen as a tool, a tool to excuse actions, a tool to enforce actions. good or bad.

    I don't believe Christianity is a problem in the Philippines either their rather conservative views and politics are.

    Take note i'm speaking of moderate exercise of religion, not extremes and neither the extreme teachings of nitpicking parts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhine101 View Post
    You did not even address what I said. You sidestepped that to do more handwaving.

    How would you feel if you pointed out that Catholic priests have been molesting a lot of kids lately and I responded with...

    All actions of pedophilia have been condemned by Catholic officials both on local, national and international level.

    Catholicism is part of their identity in a land they don't feel part of often. Neither are they seen part of the country of either origin or that of their parents. So their religion is often an important identifying factor so insulting their religion is taken often as something personal.

    The regular Catholics does not like the Pedos for that reason either, they give them a bad name and pedophelia in general is not allowed, especially not during The holidays.


    You would be like, um okay. But they still have a pedo problem that needs to be dealt with.
    That's not what i said, but it seems you have a hard on for religion, nowhere in my post do i handwave any actions. I merely point out the root cause is not religion, neither religion excuses that behavior or allows it.

    So i don't see the reason of your post beyond you pointing out your disliking of religion. Seeing i pointed out there is a problem and if you think nothing is being done against extremism even within their own communities you would be wrong.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    If you find that islam stands in the way of progress i invite you to read up on history a bit and if you still feel that way you're welcome to lay that out. Do you know that in Islam they do not frown upon abortion?
    They frown upon evolution I heard :>

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    If you find that islam stands in the way of progress i invite you to read up on history a bit and if you still feel that way you're welcome to lay that out. Do you know that in Islam they do not frown upon abortion? At least not till before first 4 months. It's amusing that while often displayed as a much more strict and close minded religion by those who abuse it, it is actually more open minded this is due to it being a younger religion than Christianity and that science actually played more of a role in that era. I do not believe that religion is a source of instability in those regions.

    Our influence is, dictators are even if they are in the form of spiritual leaders, than there's the whole tribal 'political' system.

    Religion has to be seen as a tool, a tool to excuse actions, a tool to enforce actions. good or bad.

    I don't believe Christianity is a problem in the Philippines either their rather conservative views and politics are.

    Take note i'm speaking of moderate exercise of religion, not extremes and neither the extreme teachings of nitpicking parts.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That's not what i said, but it seems you have a hard on for religion, nowhere in my post do i handwave any actions. I merely point out the root cause is not religion, neither religion excuses that behavior or allows it.

    So i don't see the reason of your post beyond you pointing out your disliking of religion. Seeing i pointed out there is a problem and if you think nothing is being done against extremism even within their own communities you would be wrong.
    Two things.

    1: I am not singling out Islam. I am asking why is it seen as a legit argument to state that religion is holding back some places, but when people suggest Islam may be doing the same people start acting like folks are suggesting that Bisexual space unicorns are real?

    2: You said that is not what you said even though it is clear I just copy/pasted what you said and put Catholic/Pedo in place of Islam and extremist. How the hell is that any different from what you said? It's a near direct copy paste?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    No she shouldn't be removed she is an elected official and hasn't broken any laws just hurt some people's feelings.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Undead Puppy View Post
    Dude... not cool. You can't single them out for being psychotic extremists, it will hurt their feelings! You have to paint all religions with the same brush to be politically correct.


    But only one of them is responsible for most of the religious violence going on in the world right now.
    Probably has something to do with the huge population versus the religion. In poor areas in Africa you have Christians who are doing the same fucked up shit.

  8. #88
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhine101 View Post
    Two things.

    1: I am not singling out Islam. I am asking why is it seen as a legit argument to state that religion is holding back some places, but when people suggest Islam may be doing the same people start acting like folks are suggesting that Bisexual space unicorns are real?

    2: You said that is not what you said even though it is clear I just copy/pasted what you said and put Catholic/Pedo in place of Islam and extremist. How the hell is that any different from what you said? It's a near direct copy paste?
    I don't find Islam holds people back, i believe those in power hold people back. I don't find Christianity to be as progressive as Islam is, i laid that out also why i believe that.

    My point was that you were saying i was hand waving actions. I wasn't excusing actions on any level.

  9. #89
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
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    @Acid
    What bothers me is with how much ease Islam is perverted. The christian world had its period of questioning, if a christian is confronted with a contradiction in the scripture it is likely that person might pause and 'Hang on a minute..'.
    Islam is so ingrained into every aspect of life that questioning is lost, it does not come natural. It is simply the word of the prophet and that is it.

    I'm with you to 100% in acknowledging the extremely small amount who become perverted terrorists. What I do not agree with is what you make up to be the cause, lets face it Islam has yet to pass through some phases.

    You HAVE to ask yourself if you really want to account for that simply by saying 'well, poor fellas gonna be mad'.
    The fundamental problem is that Islam (as any other religion) has a holy text that is vague, it leave for interpretations and we both agree on that.
    More so it leave for misinterpretations and that is key, the more aspects of society that a religion impact the less it is questioned.

    There is your reason why Islam suffer from so much crap, almost all of it inflicted on fellow muslims.
    But soon after Mr Xi secured a third term, Apple released a new version of the feature in China, limiting its scope. Now Chinese users of iPhones and other Apple devices are restricted to a 10-minute window when receiving files from people who are not listed as a contact. After 10 minutes, users can only receive files from contacts.
    Apple did not explain why the update was first introduced in China, but over the years, the tech giant has been criticised for appeasing Beijing.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    I don't find Islam holds people back, i believe those in power hold people back. I don't find Christianity to be as progressive as Islam is, i laid that out also why i believe that.

    My point was that you were saying i was hand waving actions. I wasn't excusing actions on any level.
    All I am saying is that it is weird how no one questions this. I am not saying all followers of Islam are bad. My roomate is fasting now. My response to his religion was to think about how good that lamb was when I flew from Qatar to America. The hotels there were nice too.

    Everytime someone points out some Islamic extremists people are fast to say "Not all Muslims are like that" like that is some kind of defense. It isn't. We know all Muslims are not suicide bombers, All Catholic priests are not pedos and all Christians are not evolution deniers. But only in the case of Islam do people fall back on the defense that Islam cannot possibly be a factor.

    Why?

    Why is it taboo to even suggest that the scripture could be perverted and at least have some bearing on why extremists do what they do?


    It's like the case of rape to me. Me saying that all men are not rapists does nothing to address the issues with rape. Me saying that not all men are misogynists does nothing to address the pay gap. Me saying that all Christians are not backwards thinking does nothing to address the fact that a good number deny evolution and science.

    That is why I find it troubling when people act like Islam is off limits to criticism. It isn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    No she shouldn't be removed she is an elected official and hasn't broken any laws just hurt some people's feelings.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    'Confederate separatists aren't bad, it was just that one guy who shot up a church!'
    bad example as The Confederacy literally rebelled and attacked to keep slaves. There is no individual interpretation of the various declarations of the confederate states. While "holy text" has had various interpenetration over the years even on the same verses

  12. #92
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    @Acid
    What bothers me is with how much ease Islam is perverted. The christian world had its period of questioning, if a christian is confronted with a contradiction it is likely that person might pause and 'Hang on a minute..'.
    Islam is so ingrained into every aspect of life that questioning is lost, it does not come natural. It is simply the word of the prophet and that is it.

    I'm with you to 100% in acknowledging the extremely small amount who become perverted terrorists. What I do not agree with is what you make up to be the cause, lets face it Islam has yet to pass through some phases.

    You HAVE to ask yourself if you really want to account for that simply by saying 'well, poor fellas gonna be mad'.
    The fundamental problem is that Islam (as any other religion) has a holy text that is vague, it leave for interpretations and we both agree on that.
    More so it leave for misinterpretations and that is key, the more aspects of society that a religion impact the less it is questioned.

    There is your reason why Islam suffer from so much crap, almost all of it inflicted on fellow muslims.
    We had a period of 'enlightenment', They didn't yet and sadly the revolution that took place all over that region didn't improve the situation it just worsened it.

    Before the period of enlightenment we didn't question our religion enough either we even included it in all our world views including technological advances and science, it was actually even frowned upon. Another part is that who is easier to influence, an educated or uneducated person? Answering that question will also tell you why it in those parts it so easy to pervert it, as another poster pointed out look at what christianity does in some parts of africa.

    It's more than poverty, it is hopelessness, frustration....., i also didn't say religion played no part. Religion plays a part as in it offers justification in both believe of forgiveness and even rewards them or so they believe.

    I don't find that parts of life being influenced by life makes them stop questioning it, i personally am an atheist but i grew up and regularly still have contacts with muslims, male and female from my own age. So far i can remember they have been questioning things, eating pork for example, and now the recent thing that is happening is that ramadan is also changing among my generation, where before it was diehard no food or water more and more merely say that they 'do it on their own way' and they decide to much like we used to do before easter leave out sweets, alcohol (yes they drink) and so on.

    I truly believe that religion and how it influences life is more influenced by its environment it comes into, much less than the other way around. That's why it actually manages to survive that long as a concept, it adjusts and it is flexible.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhine101 View Post
    All I am saying is that it is weird how no one questions this. I am not saying all followers of Islam are bad. My roomate is fasting now. My response to his religion was to think about how good that lamb was when I flew from Qatar to America. The hotels there were nice too.

    Everytime someone points out some Islamic extremists people are fast to say "Not all Muslims are like that" like that is some kind of defense. It isn't. We know all Muslims are not suicide bombers, All Catholic priests are not pedos and all Christians are not evolution deniers. But only in the case of Islam do people fall back on the defense that Islam cannot possibly be a factor.

    Why?

    Why is it taboo to even suggest that the scripture could be perverted and at least have some bearing on why extremists do what they do?


    It's like the case of rape to me. Me saying that all men are not rapists does nothing to address the issues with rape. Me saying that not all men are misogynists does nothing to address the pay gap. Me saying that all Christians are not backwards thinking does nothing to address the fact that a good number deny evolution and science.

    That is why I find it troubling when people act like Islam is off limits to criticism. It isn't.
    Perhaps i already addressed this in my previous response to this thread, but i do believe the scripture can be perverted i never denied this or try to insinuate it can't be so.
    It is sad that we do have to say repeatedly that not all muslims are like that, while for christians it goes without saying. I don't believe it is ever used to excuse actions but merely to point out the difference between moderates and extremists of the same religion.

    I actually was making the general case that i don't find religion to be the cause at root, regardless of what religion we speak of perhaps satanism but that's not something i know. Religion to me is a tool and it can be used in all sort of different ways.

    Muslims do address and do try to work against this, why do you think that at least in europe that officials are more and more relying on communities to stop people from going to Syria, utilizing them to work against extremism in their ranks.

  13. #93
    Deleted

    This man is a hero, he dropped tiles on the attacker's head, giving police the time to get into position.

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