The game is too team based?

[Vetly]

Hey guys, I'm a LoL player, and I wanted to try HOTS for something new. I've played it for some hours and trying really to like it. Problem is, it's so team based that players don't "shine out" and you can't really be gamechanging. I know it's pros and cons, but LoL made me motivated because I could actually carry a game. Sometimes in HOTS I feel it gets too casual?

[Herecius]

How does it being more oriented around competent teamplay, organization, and synergy make it more casual? I don't even know what 'casual' means anymore.

[Gamevizier]

How does it being more oriented around competent teamplay, organization, and synergy make it more casual? I don't even know what 'casual' means anymore.

Anything that prevents elitists to brag about their hero level, kills, l33t skills, and bash other players for being lazy dimwits (or as OP put it, "shine out") is counted as casual. :3

[Shiny212]

I agree there should be more individual recognition in a MOBA, since hots has virtually none. But I don't think that's what makes it "casual", it's thought of as casual because it's much more forgiving to play and easier to get into than other MOBAs.

[Deleted]

Hey guys, I'm a LoL player, and I wanted to try HOTS for something new. I've played it for some hours and trying really to like it. Problem is, it's so team based that players don't "shine out" and you can't really be gamechanging. I know it's pros and cons, but LoL made me motivated because I could actually carry a game. Sometimes in HOTS I feel it gets too casual?

HOTS has a 1000x better community in terms of toxic behaviour and I truly believe that part of that stems from the fact that if you piss off a player and get an AI, odds are you're losing the match.

In all honesty tho, any game that has you playing in a team should be focused on the team as a whole, not individuals.

[Deleted]

It's just differently oriented MOBA. I too hate situations where I'm doing my best while I see my team8s running around like headless chickens and despite that they have the same lvl as me. This has its good and bad sides, on one hand gives you a chance for a comeback and don't create a situation that you have team member that is so far behind he might as well go afk - but it also doesn't punish "bad play" and people think they are "doing ok" while totally sucking the D.

For me fun starts when I queue with at LEAST 2 other friends - only then we can actually "carry". When I duo queue it works sometimes too, but you don't have that much of an impact, yeah you can make some key plays with objectives, but only with party of 3 we can "almost secure it". Of course the best part starts when you have whole team - that's when Hots actually doesn't suck. I like this "mindhive" approach in teamfights and.. as much as it can sound "strange" it has better dynamic in this regard than LoL.

What I also noticed is that average players learn Hots slower than in other mobas. This very forgiving system actually backfires a bit and you have people who don't get better cause they don't know they're bad. The scoreboard doesn't tell you everything and you can get quite nice "stats" but be absolutely useless during the match (no objectives, mindless enemy chasing, solo roaming etc). I think they need to work on something that will help people "make the jump".

[pateuvasiliu]

Look at this LoL player saying HOTS isn't individualistic enough.

Do you even Dota2 bra?

[rasako]

This is just the egocentric moba crowd clamouring for something to bitch about because the game doesn't cater to their inferiorities.

the game at the highest level is incredibly deep and very complex due to the amount of decision making, team synergy, drafting strategies and compositions, etc (I could go on for hours) That I would argue the only game that surpasses it in depth is dota.

[Sliske]

I would rather it be team based than having every game just be me and my partner curbstomping the enemy team 2v5. This is why pvp in most games generally gets boring after awhile for me. The vast majority of people simply do not care about improving, so if you do try to improve, you automatically become much more valuable and powerful. Like, in wow, a good player on a certain class can easily 1v4. In CoD, you can easily solo an enemy team in a TDM, etc.

It also is frustrating relying on team mates, but i'd rather do that than curb stomp and have the game die for me in a week or 2

[Stormspellz]

I agree there should be more individual recognition in a MOBA, since hots has virtually none. But I don't think that's what makes it "casual", it's thought of as casual because it's much more forgiving to play and easier to get into than other MOBAs.

easier to get into, but wouldn't say more forgiving. While standing out is less flashy then stacking a carry with kills, it doesn't mean its not there, or doesn't have huge impact.

[Endus]

I would (strongly) argue that the team-based focus in HotS is a move away from a more-casual atmosphere into a system that downright requires coordinated teamplay even at the basic levels, let alone advanced competition. Having one pro able to carry 4 people who have no idea what they're doing is far more casual-friendly than a game where everyone needs to be coordinated and responding to objectives.

[Deleted]

Play Nova. What team?

[r3d3mpt10n]

HotS isn't a general MOBA its more of a Team based Brawler... once people understand that, then it becomes a whole lot easier.

As for carrying games, its possible, but not really Solo. there are a few heroes, if played well, can give your team a great advantage, the most notable two being Azmodan (due to his trait) and Zagara, due to giving a lot of vision and being able to push lanes and do significant hero damage too.

[The Stormbringer]

Look at this LoL player saying HOTS isn't individualistic enough.

Do you even Dota2 bra?

Oh, you mean that game that came after LoL? :P

But in all seriousness towards the OP, I noticed that too. If one person is spacing out and not helping, it has a significant impact, but it does seem harder for individual players to stand out.

[Deleted]

Hey guys, I'm a LoL player, and I wanted to try HOTS for something new. I've played it for some hours and trying really to like it. Problem is, it's so team based that players don't "shine out" and you can't really be gamechanging. I know it's pros and cons, but LoL made me motivated because I could actually carry a game. Sometimes in HOTS I feel it gets too casual?

Go illidan, say: "now I am complete", and roll around.
Might not be possible same way after patch though :P

[r3d3mpt10n]

Go illidan, say: "now I am complete", and roll around.
Might not be possible same way after patch though :P

its not possible now in Solo Queue... wont be any different after the patch. Illidan gets CC'd, he dies. you can Duo Queue with a healer, but that's not soloing

[Deleted]

Play Nova. What team?

Nova is useless without a good team.

[DeadmanWalking]

You can stand out in Hots in a team based play but you have to really stand out to do so, which means if you do stand out for your skill its because you actually earned it. You will know an extremely skilled player when you see them, skill is self-evident, like watching an Illidan jumping 2 gates to kill their target in a chase near the enemies core and then getting back in the middle alive. The problem OP has is that his skill isn't quite as evident as they believe it is.

I can always tell when there is a LoL player in Hots, they try to lane the whole time, ignore important objectives and then scream bloody murder if you don't come to help them when the enemy gangs up on them but won't show up to any other team fights.

The casual bashing is just another way to draw attention to themselves to try and show off their skill, when you drive to work every day you pass hundreds of completely competant drivers that obey the rules of the road but you don't ever remember them unless of course its an asshat misbehaving and risking other peoples lives, you remember those guys for about as long as it takes to get to work and vent about how 'everyone on the road drives like crazy' then you forget them again. Being an asshat doesn't actually mean you are elite, it just means you are being an asshat to try and get attention.

[StrawberryZebra]

I would (strongly) argue that the team-based focus in HotS is a move away from a more-casual atmosphere into a system that downright requires coordinated teamplay even at the basic levels, let alone advanced competition. Having one pro able to carry 4 people who have no idea what they're doing is far more casual-friendly than a game where everyone needs to be coordinated and responding to objectives.

As someone who's played Dota for years and recently decided to have a look at HotS, I've got to disagree with you here.

In HotS just having just one good player is enough to ensure that your team never really falls behind in levels. It doesn't matter how well or how poorly everyone else is playing, just one player who knows how to really make the most of the XP available is generally enough to give your entire team a fighting chance at winning. On a couple of the maps one player alone can comfortably get most of the XP from two lanes. Which is absolutely what Blizzard set out to achieve, it means that someone like myself can keep my entire team afloat no matter how bad they're playing, while also not being able to single-handedly win the game. Hats off to them, they really nailed it here.
Maybe this will change as I play more, I'm only at level 22 at the moment, but that remains to be seen.

You also don't need quite as much coordination as you're claiming, and most of what you need to know you can communicate through pings. Unlike Dota, theres no pressing need to continuously focus ganks on to just one or two key targets either, and players in duo/tri lanes can easilly leave to roam with little risk - But with reduced rewards too, you can still give yourself an advantage in Hero numbers before an objective, but you can't remove a player from the game entirely by continuously killing them.
There are also very few abilities, (if any?) in HotS that require your team mates active participation, Dota on the other hand is loaded with them.

Finally in Dota it usually only appears that one "pro" player is doing all the work because that has been the go-to stratergy for a very long time now. Typically getting a Carry hero fed to the point they're able to win the game, while preventing the other team from doing the same, is a team effort. The carry usually has two supports in his lane to make sure he gets all the farm he can. The supports will usually also be constantly stacking camps for the carry to farm too, along with providing him with wards and a huge safety net from ganks. It looks bad if you're checking just the scoreboard at the end to see a Hero like Phantom Assasin with 20+ kills and everyone else on 2 or 3, but it requires a huge investment from the rest of the team for PA to reach that point.

[Beazy]

As someone who's played Dota for years and recently decided to have a look at HotS, I've got to disagree with you here.

In HotS just having just one good player is enough to ensure that your team never really falls behind in levels. It doesn't matter how well or how poorly everyone else is playing, just one player who knows how to really make the most of the XP available is generally enough to give your entire team a fighting chance at winning. On a couple of the maps one player alone can comfortably get most of the XP from two lanes. Which is absolutely what Blizzard set out to achieve, it means that someone like myself can keep my entire team afloat no matter how bad they're playing, while also not being able to single-handedly win the game. Hats off to them, they really nailed it here.
Maybe this will change as I play more, I'm only at level 22 at the moment, but that remains to be seen.

You also don't need quite as much coordination as you're claiming, and most of what you need to know you can communicate through pings. Unlike Dota, theres no pressing need to continuously focus ganks on to just one or two key targets either, and players in duo/tri lanes can easilly leave to roam with little risk - But with reduced rewards too, you can still give yourself an advantage in Hero numbers before an objective, but you can't remove a player from the game entirely by continuously killing them.
There are also very few abilities, (if any?) in HotS that require your team mates active participation, Dota on the other hand is loaded with them.

Finally in Dota it usually only appears that one "pro" player is doing all the work because that has been the go-to stratergy for a very long time now. Typically getting a Carry hero fed to the point they're able to win the game, while preventing the other team from doing the same, is a team effort. The carry usually has two supports in his lane to make sure he gets all the farm he can. The supports will usually also be constantly stacking camps for the carry to farm too, along with providing him with wards and a huge safety net from ganks. It looks bad if you're checking just the scoreboard at the end to see a Hero like Phantom Assasin with 20+ kills and everyone else on 2 or 3, but it requires a huge investment from the rest of the team for PA to reach that point.

As someone with over 100 ranked games in current pre season, I can say without a doubt, one good player cannot do ANYTHING for you in HotS. A good player will simply die last in this game.

While I didn't play much DOTA outside of WC3. I did play LoL since early beta up to about a year ago, and I can, without a doubt, say: One exceptional player can carry an entire team of horrible players. I would never consider myself "pro" at LoL. While I may have over 1k games played, I never became one of those "exceptional" players. But I sure was carried by a few. =o]

In heroes, there is no carry, there is only keyboard smashing rage when you know you could have won that god damn team fight if Jaina would have used her cone of cold first to amplify your WOMBO damage. . . . god damnit Jaina. . . you had one freaking job. . . .