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  1. #361
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    I didn't say speaking ones mind, I said speaking the truth which is totally different. What he said is exactly what is happening. People are afraid to talk about it because everyone in this country turned into a spineless SJW.
    I see you're still making assertions of fact based off nothing more than rhetoric you heard from some source so incredibly far from the actual issue I doubt it could even be called third party.
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
    2023: "What's with all these massively successful games with ugly (realistic) women? How could this have happened?!"

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerus View Post
    Shitty jobs need workers too. That's kinda my point though. A job is a job to them. To Americans its beneath them so they half ass it. The Americans they had planting the seeds would have reduced the crop yields by 75% because they missed that many and didn't cover them with soil like they're supposed to.

    If you can't walk a field and make sure the farm equipment planted the seeds properly then you deserve to lose your job to an immigrant.

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    Those are jobs that kids these days have no interest in. Someone has to do it.
    Those are jobs that pay the equivalent of ~60,000 USD in australia...

  3. #363
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    So protecting our borders is backwards?. Why don't you go live on the border and tell us all how great it is.

    Nice strawman fallacy.


    If you support a clown like trump because you hear one nugget of what you want to hear, and ignore all the crazy around it, then may god have mercy on your soul.



    Like I said, all the republicans cringing at Trump's rhetoric should understand that this is how the world at large views them. But it's a somewhat chilling thought to think that people with the right to vote agree with his insanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    If you think what's actually happening is a "backward-ass thought" then ok.
    Yeah, I think asserting that Mexico should pay for their own border fence because you assume that all mexican immigrants are dirty, filthy money-mugging rapists and drug pedlars is a backwards-ass thought.


    Hey, I'm telling you something you don't want to hear. That makes me eligible for president, right?
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  4. #364
    The Lightbringer fengosa's Avatar
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    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...nts-and-crime/

    Donald Trump's two-week-old campaign has been pretty good at sticking to two core points: defending the candidate's anti-immigrant remarks at his announcement and pretending that the companies that responded to those comments by ending their business relationships with him were, instead, rejected by him first.

    As a result, we've gotten a wonderful look at the unassailable way in which Trump's mind works: He's always right, until he's not, in which case he was never wrong. You were.

    Take the statements that started all of Trump's troubles; they came within the first few minutes of his campaign kick-off, after he rambled for a bit about the crowd and the Islamic State and Japan.

    "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best," he said. "They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists."



    With all of the furor that resulted, it's worth noting the two hallmarks of classic Donald Trump that emerged from his response. First, he unfailingly stood by the comments, despite the fallout. And second, he's wrong.

    On CNN on Wednesday night, he offered a defense to anchor Don Lemon.

    "If you look at the statistics, of people coming ... I didn't say about Mexico, I say the illegal immigrants —if you look at the statistics on rape, on crime, on everything, coming in illegally to the country, they're mind-boggling," he told Lemon.

    Every part of that is incorrect. He did say his comments about Mexico — explicitly. And data show that new immigrants — including illegal immigrants — are actually less likely to commit crime, not more.

    To wit:

    —"Foreign-born individuals exhibit remarkably low levels of involvement in crime across their life course." (Bianca Bersani, University of Massachusetts, 2014. Published in Justice Quarterly.)

    Citing Bersani's work, Pew Research created this graph, showing crime rates among the immigrant community.




    [I]"The crime rate among first-generation immigrants — those who came to this country from somewhere else — is significantly lower than the overall crime rate and that of the second generation," they write.

    Since undocumented immigrants are more than a quarter of the immigrant population, it's nearly impossible that the overall-immigrant crime rate could be so much lower if the undocumented-immigrant crime rate were significantly higher.

    — "There’s essentially no correlation between immigrants and violent crime." (Jörg Spenkuch, Northwestern University, 2014. Published by the university.) He did find a small correlation between immigration and property crime, but only a slight one.

    — "mmigrants are underrepresented in California prisons compared to their representation in the overall population. In fact, U.S.-born adult men are incarcerated at a rate over two-and-a-half times greater than that of foreign-born men." (Public Policy Institute of California, 2008.)

    — "[D]ata from the census and a wide range of other empirical studies show that for every ethnic group without exception, incarceration rates among young men are lowest for immigrants, even those who are the least educated. This holds true especially for the Mexicans, Salvadorans and Guatemalans, who make up the bulk of the undocumented population." (Ruben Rumbaut, University of California, 2008. Published by the Police Foundation.)

    — "Analyses of data collected from four Southwest states and the U.S. Census show that the perceived size of the undocumented immigrant population, more so than the actual size of the immigrant population and economic conditions, is positively associated with perceptions of undocumented immigrants as a criminal threat." (Xia Wang, Arizona State University, 2014. Published in Criminology.)

    How did Trump get a simple point so wrong? Consider the response he offered Lemon on his most contentious assertion. Trump offers a sort of ontological rationalization for the "rapists" claim: People are being raped, ergo it's the immigrants' fault.


    Trump cited an article from Fusion. "Eighty percent of the women coming in ... " he says, trailing off. "You have to take a look at these stories. ... It's unbelievable, when you look at what's going on. All I'm doing is telling the truth."

    Lemon correctly points out that the story was about immigrant women being raped. "Well," Trump replies, "someone's doing the raping, Don." In apparent disbelief, Trump adds, "How can you say such a thing?"

    And there you go. Trump completely misreads a media story, turns it into a mushy stat in his head, and uses that as an excuse to bash immigrants without cause. The stat is nowhere near accurate, but that doesn't matter. When he's presented with accurate data, he offers a weird rationale — and then criticizes his critic. Perfect.


    In the wake of his announcement, we dubbed Trump to be "un-fact-checkable" for the simple reason that he so often operates outside the bounds of logical discourse. Same here. Trump has septupled down on his bad argument — assuming, as has happened so many times before, that it will all go away.

    It probably won't until, almost invariably, his candidacy does.


    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    If you think what's actually happening is a "backward-ass thought" then ok.
    Enjoy the reading. Also

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness
    Last edited by fengosa; 2015-07-03 at 09:46 AM.

  5. #365
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fengosa View Post
    *snip*

    This SHOULD be the definitive end to this thread. But unfortunately, people like Trump and those who support them don't actually look at facts or data... Just as truthiness would hold, they don't think about things, which would require looking at evidence that would prove them wrong, they feel about things, and what they feel is fed to them through anecdotal evidence and what their favorite talking head is spouting. And that way they can feel that all their indignation at any myriad of problems are being caused by whatever the loudest idiot is shouting about is the problem. And that idiot, at this moment, is Donald Trump.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  6. #366
    http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/03/politi...cisco-killing/

    A woman was shot to death at a tourist location in sf by an illegal alien who had been deported 5 times already and had 9 felony convictions. As she lay dying her last words were for her father to help her. Very sad story.

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Yeah, I think asserting that Mexico should pay for their own border fence because you assume that all mexican immigrants are dirty, filthy money-mugging rapists and drug pedlars is a backwards-ass thought.

    Legal immigrants or illegal immigrants, you know criminals? Two different things.

  8. #368
    Lets talk fiction, is Trump became potus what would happen?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    In other countries like Canada the population has chosen to believe in hope, peace and tolerance. This we can see from the election of the Honourable Justin Trudeau who stood against the politics of hate and divisiveness.

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/03/politi...cisco-killing/

    A woman was shot to death at a tourist location in sf by an illegal alien who had been deported 5 times already and had 9 felony convictions. As she lay dying her last words were for her father to help her. Very sad story.
    Oh no an illegal killed somebody time to send back all those illegals evil evil illegals...

    What will we do about the slew of American whites committing mass shootings? I mean I think we should treat them as you know individual criminals

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Oh no an illegal killed somebody time to send back all those illegals [/B]
    We should send back all the illegals regardless.

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    We should send back all the illegals regardless.
    Why because they're illegal? Seems like a flimsy reason. Many of them are quite upstanding, I mean there are plenty of first generation (new) immigrant towns (and towns with quite a few illegals) have crime rates typically lower than national average. So I mean what are you scared of? Law abiding immigrants?

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Why because they're illegal? Seems like a flimsy reason. Many of them are quite upstanding, I mean there are plenty of first generation (new) immigrant towns (and towns with quite a few illegals) have crime rates typically lower than national average. So I mean what are you scared of? Law abiding immigrants?
    Name a few of these towns you speak of.

  13. #373
    I am Murloc! gaymer77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triginhil View Post
    While he is right to some extent, blaming the country as a whole is being ignorant. I am Mexican myself born in the US after my parents waited and went through the process to get citizenship. The poor from Mexico are told that if they go North to America, they will find better paying jobs, better lifestyle, and an all around better future for their family, that is why so many come here. I may be Mexican but the one thing I do hate about my own people is how they can make their way over here, get paid under the table (even if it less than minimum wage), not pay into the tax system BUT get government help in return, then head back home or send the money back home and give their family back in Mexico a decent lifestyle. All it does is making the US seem like chumps who can get taken advantage of their system, which is partially true.

    I know most people want illegals to get sent back to wherever they came from, but the sad truth is the reason we have a comfortable lifestyle is because of them. Low wages = low cost to the consumer (thats why outsourcing is so popular). Although, if the government made the process to become a citizen a bit better known to foreign countries and did not easily pamper them when they made foot here, perhaps more foreigners would go through the process and become a citizen and perhaps pay into the system. Below is an example i heard and found the internet which might piss you off but know it is the truth

    JOE Legal vs. JOSE Illegal
    You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families have two parents, two children, and live in
    California ..
    Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes
    deducted.
    Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the
    table".

    Ready? Now pay attention....
    - Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for
    state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.
    - Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.0 0 per year. Jose Illegal pays no
    taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.
    - Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month, or
    $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00.
    - Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics and emergency hospitals at
    a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.
    - Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per
    month for food, or $6,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.
    -Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps, WIC and welfare. Jose Illegal still has
    $31,200.00.
    - Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe Legal now has 9,631 .00.
    - Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month Federal Rent Subsidy. Jose Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month,
    or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.
    - Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for car insurance. Some of that is uninsured motorist
    insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.
    - Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00.
    - Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc..
    - Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the country
    every month..
    - Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.
    - Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.
    - Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same elementary school. Joe Legal pays for his
    children's lunches, while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have
    an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.

    Now, when they reach college age, Joe Legal's kids may not get into a State School and may not qualify for
    scholarships, grants or other tuition help, even though Joe has been paying for State Schools through his taxes,
    while Jose Illegal's kids "go to the head of the class" because they are a minority.
    Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not
    pay

    I read an article recently of a Mexican student graduating from a college in San Diego and as she walked for her graduation she carried the Mexican flag, thanking the US Population for allowing her, an illegal resident, to have an easy and free ride through college by which natural US students could not qualify for.

    Sorry for the wall of text but....hope you read it
    Sorry but you're a tad bit misinformed. Joe Illegal who is making $15 an hour (something that most illegals don't LMAO) pays taxes but doesn't collect state or federal refunds because he's using an illegal SSN to get the job. Most illegals make min wage and are paid under the table. Also they don't get "free dental & medical". They can go to state/federally funded hospitals to get emergency care if they have no insurance. They don't get dental as that's not an emergency & all dentists require payment upfront even in "emergency" situations if you have no insurance. Also Joe Illegal can't get food stamps, WIC, or any other food aide because those require proof of citizenship (social security card, driver's license, etc) and they don't qualify for Section 8 (subsidized housing) because again they require proof of citizenship.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Why because they're illegal? Seems like a flimsy reason.
    Yes because they're illegal. They can go about becoming citizens legally. Letting them stay here because they are nice people is a flimsy reason breaking the law isn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    Sorry but you're a tad bit misinformed. Joe Illegal who is making $15 an hour (something that most illegals don't LMAO) pays taxes but doesn't collect state or federal refunds because he's using an illegal SSN to get the job.
    He gets paid cash off the books. In NJ most make 150 a day, other states not as much. NJ happens to pay much higher since there is more work in the tri state for laborers/construction.

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    Name a few of these towns you speak of.
    http://www.city-data.com/city/Union-...ew-Jersey.html

    I lived there before I moved where I am now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    Yes because they're illegal. They can go about becoming citizens legally. Letting them stay here because they are nice people is a flimsy reason breaking the law isn't.

    - - - Updated - - -



    He gets paid cash off the books. In NJ most make 150 a day, other states not as much. NJ happens to pay much higher since there is more work in the tri state for laborers/construction.
    Um... it is a flimsy reason... "Oh boo hoo you fled yoru country where you could get killed becuase we sent all those people back and now you have a gang problem because they formed gangs in our terrible prison system, oh well back to your country."

  16. #376
    Never once have I liked Trump. Think he's an ignorant ass person, but I don't disagree with his statements here.

    people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists
    Spin that however you want, it's true. There's good people coming over with them, but there's a lot of bad. If you don't believe it, then don't go to Texas.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    http://www.city-data.com/city/Union-...ew-Jersey.html

    I lived there before I moved where I am now.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Um... it is a flimsy reason... "Oh boo hoo you fled yoru country where you could get killed becuase we sent all those people back and now you have a gang problem because they formed gangs in our terrible prison system, oh well back to your country."
    First of all Union city is a fucking garbage can of a town, tons of crime.
    Secondly it's not my fault nor do I care how shitty there country is, you can become a citizen here legally or stay in your own country.

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    First of all Union city is a fucking garbage can of a town, tons of crime.
    Secondly it's not my fault nor do I care how shitty there country is, you can become a citizen here legally or stay in your own country.
    "Tons of crime"less crime than national average. In recent years. (4 or so)

    Raleigh NC has a higher crime rate and I don't think people would consider it a garbage place because of the crime.

  19. #379
    The Lightbringer fengosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/03/politi...cisco-killing/

    A woman was shot to death at a tourist location in sf by an illegal alien who had been deported 5 times already and had 9 felony convictions. As she lay dying her last words were for her father to help her. Very sad story.
    That's some interesting anecdotal evidence. Still, as a whole immigrants still commit less crime than natural born citizens.



    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    We should send back all the illegals regardless.
    Actually based on the graph above, we should start deporting natural born americans.
    Last edited by fengosa; 2015-07-04 at 02:21 AM.

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    "Tons of crime"less crime than national average. In recent years. (4 or so)

    Raleigh NC has a higher crime rate and I don't think people would consider it a garbage place because of the crime.
    You lived there you know it's a fucking garbage can of a town. Rutherford is much nicer.

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