Is Critical Strike and Multistrike benefit in PVP buffed in 6.2?

[cqwrteur]

I notice that critical strike now deals 175% effect (up from 150%) and multistrike works as same as PVE. Am I right?

[Exotath]

How did you discover this?

[Thelxi]

interesting. Are you sure multistrike works normally? that would be a huge buff for frost mage.

[Kagthul]

Where did you see this at?

Turning up crit in PvP seems like utter insanity.

[cqwrteur]

How did you discover this?

First, I found multistrike and critical strike did more healing in bg. Then I tested in my garrison pvp healing dummy. My surging mist does 175% healing when critical strike.

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interesting. Are you sure multistrike works normally? that would be a huge buff for frost mage.

I don't know how it works now. I have never seen any blue post on it. So, I would like to learn whether I am right or not.

[Deleted]

This is primarily a PVE game, the devs themselves stated so, so I'm expecting all sorts of shit to be thrown at pvp-ers. I mean they gotta make you want to play hots and overwatch instead of wow.

[GodEmperor]

Garrison PvP dummies are bugged since 6.0 in that crits still do the same damage as it would in PvE. Not sure about Multistrike.

[Deleted]

it was a joke in the first place to reduce the effect of critical strike in pvp, some specs depend on crit to deal dmg, destrucion locks for example

was nothing but a pitiful bandaid fix, the real problem is overpowered cooldowns and zero constant dmg outside of them

[Deleted]

it was a joke in the first place to reduce the effect of critical strike in pvp, some specs depend on crit to deal dmg, destrucion locks for example

was nothing but a pitiful bandaid fix, the real problem is overpowered cooldowns and zero constant dmg outside of them

This is the reason why the dev's need to bite the bullet and just have totally separate values for pve and pvp. Cooldowns are needed in specs to make them feel more enjoyable and less bland. The pve'rs love blowing everything on pull and seeing big numbers, then lining up their procs for the next big burst, i can see the fun in that.

However when you apply that to pvp, it then just means sustained has to be through the floor otherwise the damage after burst would just not be heal able, so we are stuck in the juxtaposition of blow everything out of the gates and win for the majority of players below 2k (which a lot of the pvp player base is) so peeps are like "pvp is not enjoyable cause i just get one shot" so they lose interest, the learning curve created by the way damage is dealt is far too steep and it just turns players new to pvp off straight away.

[Kagthul]

it was a joke in the first place to reduce the effect of critical strike in pvp, some specs depend on crit to deal dmg, destrucion locks for example

was nothing but a pitiful bandaid fix, the real problem is overpowered cooldowns and zero constant dmg outside of them

Can you name a spec or class that is heavily reliant on Crit that is actually hurt by the fact that they only do 50% damage in PvP?

Because Demo/Destro Lock isn't one of them - they're one of the REASONS it was tuned down to 50% - they STILL do big enough crits to be doing 1/5th to 1/4 of someone's entire HP bar in one go.

[Thelxi]

Can you name a spec or class that is heavily reliant on Crit that is actually hurt by the fact that they only do 50% damage in PvP?

Because Demo/Destro Lock isn't one of them - they're one of the REASONS it was tuned down to 50% - they STILL do big enough crits to be doing 1/5th to 1/4 of someone's entire HP bar in one go.

It's not that that specs rely heavily on the crit damage, it is that the stat weight is point blank halved in pvp which hurts some specs far more than others.

Take for example shadow priests, they can very safely avoid any and all crit/multistrike and perform 100% no worries. Spriests are in a much better position than say fire mages who still have to stack crit, only gaining half the stat weight value from it. Also look at frost mages who benefit more from multistrike than most other specs because of procs, if you take a look at the ladders most frost mages just stack haste, mastery and vers.

See the problem? This change is a terrible bandaid that completely messes with pvp balance. Stat weights don't mean much to tunnel vision pvpers since burst and CC is far more important than theoretical sustained dps, but it absolutely affects pvp. Fire mage is probably the best example of how this change has fucked over some specs far more than others.

It is a very subtle change though that not a lot of pvpers have realized the gravity of this season, but it absolutely is more of a problem than most people understand. I wish there was more noise about it.

[Kagthul]

It's not that that specs rely heavily on the crit damage, it is that the stat weight is point blank halved in pvp which hurts some specs far more than others.

Take for example shadow priests, they can very safely avoid any and all crit/multistrike and perform 100% no worries. Spriests are in a much better position than say fire mages who still have to stack crit, only gaining half the stat weight value from it. Also look at frost mages who benefit more from multistrike than most other specs because of procs, if you take a look at the ladders most frost mages just stack haste, mastery and vers.

See the problem? This change is a terrible bandaid that completely messes with pvp balance. Stat weights don't mean much to tunnel vision pvpers since burst and CC is far more important than theoretical sustained dps, but it absolutely affects pvp. Fire mage is probably the best example of how this change has fucked over some specs far more than others.

It is a very subtle change though that not a lot of pvpers have realized the gravity of this season, but it absolutely is more of a problem than most people understand. I wish there was more noise about it.

Chance to crit is not reduced, you know that, right? Just the damage critical strikes do.

Multistrike, OTOH, is affected (since it can only proc once on a PvP target instead of twice).

[Thelxi]

Chance to crit is not reduced, you know that, right? Just the damage critical strikes do.

Multistrike, OTOH, is affected (since it can only proc once on a PvP target instead of twice).

What's your point? I just tried to explain to you that it is not the damage but the chance that is causing problems. You are just stating the obvious.

[Caolela]

Can you name a spec or class that is heavily reliant on Crit that is actually hurt by the fact that they only do 50% damage in PvP?

Because Demo/Destro Lock isn't one of them - they're one of the REASONS it was tuned down to 50% - they STILL do big enough crits to be doing 1/5th to 1/4 of someone's entire HP bar in one go.

Yes, Destro IS hurt by it because their main nuke Chaos Bolt should do bigger damage, since it takes so long to cast (3 sec. thus is easy to interrupt or avoid), is hard-cast (no mobility), and requires a resource build up to use (embers).

[Ryanite]

What's your point? I just tried to explain to you that it is not the damage but the chance that is causing problems. You are just stating the obvious.

And hes saying that you are wrong, the chance to crit is not lowered in PvP, the crit damage multiplyer is. Crit as a stat isn't halved. So your fire mage example doesn't make sense.

The overall worth of crit is lowered in PvP but that is heavily outweighed by the burst damage it brings. So while some classes may not need to gear into crit the fact that is its still strong even while reduced.

[Kagthul]

Yes, Destro IS hurt by it because their main nuke Chaos Bolt should do bigger damage, since it takes so long to cast (3 sec. thus is easy to interrupt or avoid), is hard-cast (no mobility), and requires a resource build up to use (embers).

.. so you're trying to say that all that should be required for a single attack to hit for more than 300k is that it takes 3 seconds to cast and uses a resource?

.... yeah, right.

I play a warlock, and im telling ya, that would be sheer idiocy.

[Thelxi]

And hes saying that you are wrong, the chance to crit is not lowered in PvP, the crit damage multiplyer is. Crit as a stat isn't halved. So your fire mage example doesn't make sense.

The overall worth of crit is lowered in PvP but that is heavily outweighed by the burst damage it brings. So while some classes may not need to gear into crit the fact that is its still strong even while reduced.

Both of you seriously after reading my post think that I don't know that crit chance is not lowered in pvp? lol way to read. Crit stat weight values are absolutely halved in pvp, don't know how you can't see that. Not even napkin math needed for that. The fire mage example shows that some specs are heavily punished by this change, while others like spriest actually benefit from it. This really isn't rocket science. But I should give up getting it through to you, clearly lol.

There really is no hope for this getting fixed anytime soon since you can't even explain to people what the problem is. Job well done Blizzard I suppose.

[Ryanite]

Both of you seriously after reading my post think that I don't know that crit chance is not lowered in pvp? lol way to read. Crit stat weight values are absolutely halved in pvp, don't know how you can't see that. Not even napkin math needed for that. The fire mage example shows that some specs are heavily punished by this change, while others like spriest actually benefit from it. This really isn't rocket science. But I should give up getting it through to you, clearly lol.

There really is no hope for this getting fixed anytime soon since you can't even explain to people what the problem is. Job well done Blizzard I suppose.

well two people "misread" what you wrote so I think it may be writing problem. Also when you follow it up with "What's your point? I just tried to explain to you that it is not the damage but the chance that is causing problems. You are just stating the obvious."

We want separate PvP balance but freak out when crit isn't at it's full value in pvp? Fire mage plays fine, crit is such a strong stat in pvp that it needs to be curbed, people don't play fire because frosts design is better in every way for PvP.

[Terahertz]

Can anyone actually confirm if this is true?

[Deleted]

Fire mage plays fine

You obviously don't play that spec. Scorch that hits 3 times less than an auto attack, hard cast fireball that deals like an autoattack, dispellable pyro procs that crit like 20k, no CD damage, Combustion that does, full burst with 2-3 pyros in a row, a total of 15-20k and is a dispellable dot.. FFS THE FUCK IS FIREMAGE FINE ? It's only usable as an utility spec, for mass control/snare.