Is Transcendence Worth Keeping?

[Basilmoyh]

Looking ahead to 7.0, I think Transcendence could be on the chopping block. In PvE, it’s used a lot to reset fights. I don’t think the devs would consider that intended. It has also been used to nullify boss mechanics, such as when BrM’s used it on Imperator. That doesn’t happen often, but it seems it’s always a BrM that finds a way to overcome mechanics the other tanks can’t and Transcendence is one offender. Plus, with Roll, level 15 talents and Flying Serpent Kick, Monks have plenty enough mobility without Transcendence. From a PvP perspective, Transcendence is primarily a defensive spell used to get out of trouble and out of the fray, not into the fray. I think if WW Monks were buffed in PvP in one areas they sorely need; self-healing, defensive's, counter-snare, or countering opponents mobility, that coupled with Transcendence, a good WW Monk could be virtually unkillable in the hands of a good player. I’m sure there are probably some people that love Transcendence and use it in interesting ways, but I think you’re in the minority… we’ll see based on responses.

If Transcendence were removed and replaced with something more offensively minded, I think Clash could be a more than suitable replacement. A lot of people didn’t understand Clash because they thought it was a Charge. It’s not. Clash is a Death Grip + Stun. Monk’s having Clash, could be the PvP buff we need, because WW Monks, are without a ranged snare, nor a teleport to melee range like Shadowstep or Death Grip, and have to spend a GCDs on Disable, which deals no damage and requires melee range. I also think there is great potential to glyph Clash, such as making it so you don’t move, which makes it behave more like Death Grip, or applying Disable instead of stunning, because may be you want to time a Stun and not have it affected by DR. These glyphs exist assuming that the 5 mandatory glyphs needed for PvP, are made not so mandatory anymore. For PvE, having another class that can Death Grip could be useful and maybe bring something to the table in terms of raid utility.

So, if not Clash to return, I think a Hunter-like Camouflage slash D&D’esque Defect Arrows could work. Monks could be immune to projectile based slows. For example, immune to Hunter’s Concussive Shot, but not frost Trap, immune to Mage Frost Bolt slow, but not Frost Armor. Although, I kind of think this kind of ability may be a good replacement for the Ring of Peace talent.

[Notter]

Yes. 'is a good spell. he didn' do nothin'!

if anything, remove Storm, Earth and Fire. cause it literally took all the fun out of this class, since it's way too hard to balance

[irysheman]

The mark of a good WW is the ability to use his/her class to the fullest potential. That means finding ways to use Trancendance offensively/defensively on every fight.
Some examples.

BRF:
Orgorger to deal with outside boxes without fear of being rolled over because you can port back to the middle of the room.
Hans/Franz: Place and keep tabs on it. If you are caught in a tight spot and know your trancendance is safe, port and laugh at other people's deaths.
Kormog: Trancendance back into the melee pile after hands phaze.
Choo Choo Boss: Dodge fire train's fire dot completely by teleporting thru it by preemptively setting your port for each wave.
Maidens: Same idea as Hans/Franz.

HFC:
Kormrok: Trancendance into your correct stack point before grasping hands so you can keep maximum uptime on the Boss/Tank Hand mechanic and still get to your assigned location instantly.
Gorefiend: Teleport back in after dropping your voidzone.
Shadow-Lord Iskar: Can save you from getting knocked off the platform if people are slow with the eye.
Fel Lord: Same deal as Gorefiend
Xhul'horac: Same deal as gorefiend

Basically you should be using it to keep maximum uptime on the boss when a mechanic takes you away from melee.

[Just Another Monk]

Removing Transcendence is a transcendentally idiotic idea. Bring back Clash? Yes, please. Remove Transcendence? Over my dead body.

[Volibear]

Removing Transcendence is a transcendentally idiotic idea. Bring back Clash? Yes, please. Remove Transcendence? Over my dead body.

On that note, bring back Zen Meditation for Mistweaver.

[Saiyoran]

Bring back Clash please Blizzard holy shit it was one of my favorites.

Also Transcend is useful on almost every encounter if you really want to maximize damage. It's a really cool and unique ability.

[Basilmoyh]

Also Transcend is useful on almost every encounter if you really want to maximize damage.

I'm a little unsure about this, because you have to find a the gcd to setup Transcendence and the alternative, FSK, does damage when you land. The difference is going to be miniscule over the course of a fight.

[Spotnick]

I believe their attempt to remove it from mistweaver lasted a day on last beta.

No reason to remove that spell EVER, it's the one fun ability to use when there is a knockback in a fight.

[TheWhimzicalOne]

Yeah no. Transcendence is part of our niche.

[Fakie]

Transcendence is probably one of the top reason I play monk. Do not touch.

[ruga]

On that note, bring back Zen Meditation for Mistweaver.

A decision I never understood to this very day. Yes you can't heal when doing so, but gaining an extra soak on ability X was worth it.
If anything, reduce the dmg abosrbed for MW and give them the ability to still cast certain spells at x% less power.

[v1perz53]

Looking at it from a different angle, removing Transcendence would have serious PvP implications for a class that is already not the best/most represented in PvP. Mistweaver can function in PvP, but no transcendence would really hurt. It is core to the spec's arena toolkit for avoiding CC and escaping roots and trains. WW is already fairly terrible in PvP and no transcendence would be disastrous. Trans is an absolutely necessary means of escape for WW, and should not be replaced with something "more offensive".

[Volibear]

Update on this: Holy christ this saved my life so many times on Mannoroth prog! That Shadowforce is horrible and I hate it, but dropping port on the edge of the platform if you fly off is the best thing ever.

[pandanaconda]

Hey there,

transcendance used to be a thing MW's used for kiting in pvp and BrM's used occasionally to cheese boss abilities. With the amazing leveling perks, it has become a huge asset of the monk class and people love it. I personally love it in both pvp and pve. However, I could make a case for deleting it.

We allready have a lot of mobility as monks. This extra instant, free mobility is probably too much. Right now, MW's NEED transcendance to survive in pvp, otherwise they have to use important CD's right away and die shortly thereafter. The same goes for Windwalkers in pvp: they are not in a good spot, have bad defensive cooldowns, and are forced to abuse transcendance's broken nature to outplay other players.
However, those two specs are not in a broken state in pvp. WW is pretty weak with the latest nerfs, and MW relies a lot on transcendance plus it fits in very few high level comps (2 or 3 IIRC).

In pve, transcendance finds uses on a lot of bosses, but we can rarely say those uses were "intended". I'd hate to lose transcendance. I used it as a charge on butcher back in Highmaul, and was the first one dps'ing the boss after each knockback. I use it to drop ruptures away from the raid/bombs during blast furnace and go back to dps'ing right away. Those are fine uses and ones blizzard could get behind. However, when they made a mechanic to prevent people from soloing belt on siegemaker back in Soo, I don't think they intended for us to cheese it with transcendance. When they used mark of chaos as the main tank swap mechanic in Highmaul, they probably didn't want us to dodge it with transcendance. Same goes for brewmasters dodging avid earth on Kromog and tanking thundering blows with transcendance into guard. Those were all fun, however probably not what we need. Many people do such things (warrior charges, rogues shadowsteps and stuff), and I love them, but they feel kinda wrong and awesome at the same time.


Usually, when I join a guild, the first thing they remember me for is that I'm good at reseting bosses with transcendance. Funnily enough, this is the biggest raid utility we have right now. I'd hate to lose that, but transcendance is probably not what the class really needs.
I absolutely love transcendance, it has grown to be my favorite monk spell, but it has very little monk flavor and probably is not what the class needs. In pvp, when the class becomes strong, it is the first thing people rage about. Admit it, when facing hunters, you've heard yourself say something like "not only do they have the biggest damage in the game, but they also have high mobility and the highest number of CC's!" Its very frustrating for someone to face a strong class with too much kiting, so if monks are too see some high lvl pvp, maybe they need to lose transcendance and get balanced around it a bit, in the same way SEF is holding WW back a lot in pve.



I'd hate to lose transcendance but maybe you're right and its doing more harm than good to the class. We definitely need some changes to BrM and WW's and future patches, maybe losing transcendance is a step in the right direction. I'd cry a lot.

[Java]

Yes. 'is a good spell. he didn' do nothin'!

if anything, remove Storm, Earth and Fire. cause it literally took all the fun out of this class, since it's way too hard to balance

I second this, it causes a ton of balance issues and has 2 very annoying bugs. Mobs dropping no loot and clones appearing on the wrong target.

[Deleted]

A decision I never understood to this very day. Yes you can't heal when doing so, but gaining an extra soak on ability X was worth it.
If anything, reduce the dmg abosrbed for MW and give them the ability to still cast certain spells at x% less power.

If there's an ability that could have been pruned for every spec it should have been Zen Med. Looking at it as objectively as possible.... it's basically the monk 45 talent.

Theres already an immunity/cheese talent choice. Never really understood why WW/BrM needed another

[GuruFTP]

At least S,E&F is viable now, I remember in MoP when it didn't even change your dps when you placed them on targets

[SKLC]

I can't believe someone playing Monk would even ask this. I admit I hated losing clash when tanking, I still do, but don't take away ALL the fun away from it, please. NO REMOVAL.

Peace and love