Resto general questions

[SwayOfTheAbyss]

Good Afternoon guys,
Im going into HFC tonight with the following healing team: Hpally, MWeaver, Disc priest, and myself.. a rshammy.

Im trying to really maximize HPS in 6.2. I have my t17 4pc

A. Should I: Run glyph of riptide like i always do? spam it all over the raid and just nuke with chain heal?

or..

B. Should I: Get rid of the glyph and go for the two riptide charges and take that up front riptide heal?

It seems like method A wont be as effective with the chain heal changes recently.
What do you guys think?

[Canibehealz]

Good Afternoon guys,
Im going into HFC tonight with the following healing team: Hpally, MWeaver, Disc priest, and myself.. a rshammy.

Im trying to really maximize HPS in 6.2. I have my t17 4pc

A. Should I: Run glyph of riptide like i always do? spam it all over the raid and just nuke with chain heal?

or..

B. Should I: Get rid of the glyph and go for the two riptide charges and take that up front riptide heal?

It seems like method A wont be as effective with the chain heal changes recently.
What do you guys think?

Glyph of Riptide, since the 6.2 removing the RT requirement for maximizing CH, has become less and less important for maximizing CH/High Tide use. As long as you're using your charges on cooldown and prepping ahead of aoe damage youll still rock the encounters. 2 sprints, 2 SLT and 2 Riptide charges comes in really handy on a lot of the HFC encounters because of movement and SLT opportunities are plentiful for both trash and boss encounters. Personally I haven't touched Glyph of RT this patch yet.

[thugchains]

Agree with Canibehealz, lose the riptide glyph. Just use riptide on cd with the EOTE and prosper.

[Blasting]

Is using ancestral swiftness so bad? Or it's legit? I'm using cannib spreadsheet for loot with mul>has>mas because 1/3 of time i'm required as elemental

[caelym]

The biggest thing is that double SLT is incredibly good for most of the fights. If you're not utilizing double SLT very much then AS is definitely a consideration.

[Canibehealz]

Is using ancestral swiftness so bad? Or it's legit? I'm using cannib spreadsheet for loot with mul>has>mas because 1/3 of time i'm required as elemental

AS/EM/Echo are all used for different playstyles and encounters. They all perform close to each other in raid settings and excel at different times. Echo is the standard choice because of the additional movement friendliness of RT/Unleash charges and the extra use of SLT. If theres no glaring use for a second SLT, AS and EM are valid choices.

[Alltat]

Is using ancestral swiftness so bad? Or it's legit? I'm using cannib spreadsheet for loot with mul>has>mas because 1/3 of time i'm required as elemental

It's okay. Patch 6.2 made Ancestral Swiftness a little better, as we don't need as many Riptides up to get maximum High Tide synergies (since the initial target doesn't need to also have Riptide). Echo of the Elements is a bit too convenient to pass up on, though. EotE is also better if there's a lot of movement or if you can put double Spirit Links to good use.

That stat priority is completely backwards for resto, but I guess you might know that already. It should be Mastery > haste > multi = crit for resto, so as resto/ele you either need two sets of gear or you just have to pick which spec you care the most about.

[Pur1tas]

It's okay. Patch 6.2 made Ancestral Swiftness a little better, as we don't need as many Riptides up to get maximum High Tide synergies (since the initial target doesn't need to also have Riptide). Echo of the Elements is a bit too convenient to pass up on, though. EotE is also better if there's a lot of movement or if you can put double Spirit Links to good use.

That stat priority is completely backwards for resto, but I guess you might know that already. It should be Mastery > haste > multi = crit for resto, so as resto/ele you either need two sets of gear or you just have to pick which spec you care the most about.

I have to disagree with the stat priority you state. This is largely depending on your raid setup. The full Mastery build is very strong for small groups with little absorb heal, while you might find yourself very usless in a raid with a lot of absorbs. The Multi > Haste > Mastery > Crit build is a very solid thing right now, because of how much mastery there is on items anyways and the amount you get by our passive. So while I am going full Multi Haste I still cannot avoid mastery completely just because of how the T18 set and a lot of other items in HFC are designed. So at the end I will still be at around 60-70% Mastery with a much larger amount of multistrike and haste compared to about 100% mastery with the mastery build, which I am not going to be able to utilize ever anyways.

As I said it really depends on the raid setup. I strongly suggest Multistrike over mastery in larger, absorb heavy raid groups, while the mastery build really benefits from smaller groups with more direct healing. Also the Multistrike setup does not fall of that much with skill of raidgroup and the itemlevel increasing.

[Blasting]

Yes, I thought extensively on that. My current raid usually is made of around 16 person, with 4 healers: Pally, Disc, Resto Druid and me (R shammy).

The current healing pattern for me is not much to do during low damage phase (I just use HST on cd and upkeep riptide and cast some occasional spell or do some dps), and high burst during period of high damage, mostly using all the toolkit and especially chain casting chain heal.

That's why I ended using mul>has>mas, cause the period of very low health are not so big (except the loving gorefiend fight ).
Basically I went for all the stats which can benefits from a +5% from spec or talent. Mana regeneration I'm ok already with 1k spirit and using EB on CD so I'm not bothered by crit.

My only doubt came from choosing ascension instead of echo. +5% haste is quite nice, especially for burst moments, but the double SLT too... ahhh choices!

One quick question even if we talking bout resto here... is mastery so bad for elemental? Is it not good at least for movement fights?

[Canibehealz]

is mastery so bad for elemental? Is it not good at least for movement fights?

The problem with Mastery is that it doesn't scale enough things. Haste, Crit, Vers and Multi all scale your mastery damage as well as provide other scaling to other spells. Mastery effects dick all. It really is so bad for elemental.

[Alltat]

I have to disagree with the stat priority you state. This is largely depending on your raid setup. The full Mastery build is very strong for small groups with little absorb heal, while you might find yourself very usless in a raid with a lot of absorbs.

But the thing is that if you have that many absorbs and so many healers that people never actually drop, you're largely useless anyway. Stacking multistrike will let you look better on the healing meters and feel better about your performance, but you're not actually contributing to the raid's success. All you're doing is sniping healing that would have been done anyway by HoTs or whatever, and you're sacrificing burst healing to do it, meaning you risk having people die during the phases that are actually hard just so you can contribute more during the easy phases when the raid doesn't actually need your contributions.

My stance on mastery is that if mastery isn't good, it's because no one is at low health. And if no one is at low health, no one is going to die. And if no one is going to die, your job as a healer is done, and there's nothing left to min/max but your ego. And egos don't kill bosses, so stack mastery. It might not be the most fun build, but it is the best build.

[siccora]

i am in the same spot a little bit. i was playing holy pally for this Xpack so far but due to class changes i thought i was better to have a shaman in the raid then have 2 pallys. i dont have that mythic 4 piece set neither do i have those good spirit trinkets. just look at my sig. i got the hc 4 piece and some random hc hfc mail items. now i was used to the holy pala playstyle witch is quite simple imo. just look out for that 4 and 2 set procs. but now i feel VERY underperfoming in the new instance. i am sure not a bad player but i got so much buttons to press and use as a resto i really dont know what is the most important. i cannot really spam chainheal, my riptides are sometimes off cooldown because i really got nobody to heal.i try to keep up both tides on the tanks and not overwriting them. so i can cast 2-3 more riptides on the raid until 1 riptide falls off one tank. when the raid takes dmg i cast chainheal. only when the raid really goes down i can keep a stacked raid alive for 18 seconds due to double spirit link, tide and ascendance. but thats all. i am used to be a good healer the whole fight. maybe not topping meter but be constant as a pally. pop wings when the raid is dropping low. but as a shaman i feel like a gimmik that only shines when i pop my cds.

when i look at some top shamans armory they all got the 4 piece mythic T17 still going. is it THIS good to still use it? should i go mythic brf again to gear my shaman or do i just have to wait for the T18 4 piece? for now i am a little sad that i switched my class because i dont "feel" that good.

[Blasting]

But the thing is that if you have that many absorbs and so many healers that people never actually drop, you're largely useless anyway. Stacking multistrike will let you look better on the healing meters and feel better about your performance, but you're not actually contributing to the raid's success. All you're doing is sniping healing that would have been done anyway by HoTs or whatever, and you're sacrificing burst healing to do it, meaning you risk having people die during the phases that are actually hard just so you can contribute more during the easy phases when the raid doesn't actually need your contributions.

My stance on mastery is that if mastery isn't good, it's because no one is at low health. And if no one is at low health, no one is going to die. And if no one is going to die, your job as a healer is done, and there's nothing left to min/max but your ego. And egos don't kill bosses, so stack mastery. It might not be the most fun build, but it is the best build.

Things as i see them are:

Progression: mastery is clearly a winner here but the gap between it and multistrike is not so wide

Farming: mastery is going to be utterly wasted both as resto and elemental. During farm i'll go elemental anyway to speed up kills instead of unecessarily sniping heals.

Now, for progression, is choosing between mastery and multistrike so fundamental that this statement ("but you're not actually contributing to the raid's success") become true? I mean I'm not choosing between mastery and versatility, I'm still using a good throughput stat. Or I'm missing something and doing really wrong?

[Alltat]

Now, for progression, is choosing between mastery and multistrike so fundamental that this statement ("but you're not actually contributing to the raid's success") become true? I mean I'm not choosing between mastery and versatility, I'm still using a good throughput stat. Or I'm missing something and doing really wrong?

I don't mean it in the sense that multistrike is terrible; it's an okay stat. I mean it in the sense that if you're seriously looking at it, the healing team would probably do just fine without you. Not because you're useless, but because there's just not enough healing needed to actually justify using that many healers. There is nothing you can change to make the situation better, because your healing is not the problem. Having too many (or too skilled) healers for the content you're doing (or how well you're doing it) is the problem. Changing your stat priorities won't help, because there's no incoming damage for it to help with.

Yes, you can tweak things to do a bit more healing, but all you're really doing is making other healers overheal more. There's only so much total damage to heal, and if that's being healed and no one is dying, your job as a healer is done. Min/maxing beyond that point doesn't achieve anything, and the best thing you can do to improve your raid's chances of success is to work on your DPS offspec (like you're doing). But it should be noted that you're not using a healing stat prio - you're using inferior stats in order to maximize your offspec DPS, because that benefits your raid more. Multistrike is never better for healing, but it can be better for your raid.

when i look at some top shamans armory they all got the 4 piece mythic T17 still going.

Most top guilds will hand loot to DPS (and sometimes tanks) during progression. For the past few expansions, DPS requirements have generally been tighter than HPS requirements, especially if you're making good use of all available defensive cooldowns and never stand in the fire. Giving loot to healers during the first few weeks simply doesn't do much, so we often don't get any. Even if there are no guild rules about it, very many healers will voluntarily pass, as it means faster guild progression and more loot in the long run. Wait a few weeks and I'm sure you'll see plenty of restoration shamans using heroic 4T18.

[Pur1tas]

I think you are looking at this a little wrong my friend

While going for Multistrike over Mastery will give you a little less mastery you will still have a ton of it, because you are a shaman. So in fact the multistrike helps your mastery. Imagine low targets you would want to heal with chainheals back to full life. No matter how much mastery you have usually you will need at least two spells. for this. Now if your mastery is a little lower and your multistrike a lot higher you have a relevant chance to multistrike on every hit of your chainheal with the first cast and profiting from your mastery again (less but still).

The Idea behind it is that those high amounts of mastery we are getting if we would go full mastery are just never going to be utilized ever. going for 100% mastery or potentially more makes very little sense in my eyes because if many players are that dead in your raid, there is something different going very wrong. It felt like we had a little to much mastery in BRF already in my opinion but it was okay and I went for it because it make me save people and outheal their mistakes.

For Siccora I think a lot of shamans are still using T17 because of what alltat said. In addition to that I think that T17 4 set is better than haveing T17 2 and T18 2 making it kinda wierd. This ofc depends on your gearscore but I have Mythic T17 and I am not quite willing yet to give up the 4 set for the two 2 set bonuses, just because of fights like gorefiend.

Last but not least the transition from Mastery to Multistrike for me is a pretty slow one. A Piece here a piece there and some enchants and gems switching up. I am not giving up tons of mastery for multistrike, because essentially there are not only items with Haste multistrike on them. So I droppen from 90% Mastery in BRF to about 75% right now. I barely see a difference, even in High dmg fights. I actually preform quite well on them. So yeah I think Multi over Mastery is a very viable option and we might need to wait a little longer to really see whats clearly better. I understand the theorey behind the full mastery, but at some point mastery just becomes way to much (remember SoO; we switched it out for crit at some point) to utilize to its full potentials and feels like a lot of wasted stats.

[thugchains]

It was weird being in mythic BRF and already having 100 percent mastery. Once 6.2 hit it seemed like 90% mastery and more haste/multi would be more beneficial than to keep stacking mastery and be well over 100%. I have really become fond of having more haste in particular and since I never go ele having multi doesn't have the double use benefit that other shamans utilize. I am still aiming to keep my mastery high, (no reason to drop it below the mid-upper 80s) and trying to build up some more haste/multi to spice-en up the party.

[Blasting]

i am in the same spot a little bit. i was playing holy pally for this Xpack so far but due to class changes i thought i was better to have a shaman in the raid then have 2 pallys. i dont have that mythic 4 piece set neither do i have those good spirit trinkets. just look at my sig. i got the hc 4 piece and some random hc hfc mail items. now i was used to the holy pala playstyle witch is quite simple imo. just look out for that 4 and 2 set procs. but now i feel VERY underperfoming in the new instance. i am sure not a bad player but i got so much buttons to press and use as a resto i really dont know what is the most important. i cannot really spam chainheal, my riptides are sometimes off cooldown because i really got nobody to heal.i try to keep up both tides on the tanks and not overwriting them. so i can cast 2-3 more riptides on the raid until 1 riptide falls off one tank. when the raid takes dmg i cast chainheal. only when the raid really goes down i can keep a stacked raid alive for 18 seconds due to double spirit link, tide and ascendance. but thats all. i am used to be a good healer the whole fight. maybe not topping meter but be constant as a pally. pop wings when the raid is dropping low. but as a shaman i feel like a gimmik that only shines when i pop my cds.

when i look at some top shamans armory they all got the 4 piece mythic T17 still going. is it THIS good to still use it? should i go mythic brf again to gear my shaman or do i just have to wait for the T18 4 piece? for now i am a little sad that i switched my class because i dont "feel" that good.

Shammy is a class which will not top healing meters. Not in WoD at least if not in the perfect fight were all stacked and getting good chance of damage. It requires some good play to get the best out of it and still putting the same effort on another healer class you usually get "better" results. My experience lack the pally, but i played with druid and mist weaver too this xpac.

Imho shammy greatness and flavour are connected, it's really a supporting class, you have tons of small utility that even if not game changing really help on the feel. Usually healing can be dulled to keep riptide on cd, upkeep rain if stacked, abuse chain heal till your mana support it and use healing wave as filler and surge as oh crap. Oh! and HST on cd too. Oh! and EB if you use it.

But the you have many other things, like frost shock (awesome with killrog adds), or the violet totem i forgot the name that absorb an harmful direct spell.
And you have elementals. And the stun totem... Yeah the button bloat is still a bit part of us.

I really advise you to spend some minutes to settle a good ui layout for you to have a better grasp of your most used abilities and weak auras to help maximise the cd use.

I'll posta ui example here:

If you work a bit on it and spend some time refining things is a class that can give you many satisfaction!

[Canibehealz]

I should ask my raid if I hold us back and don't contribute to our success. I bet they would say no. /shrug

@Siccora - Shamans shine in stacked and consistent aoe healing situations. We have the niche that we bring a multitude of cooldowns to assist the raid in situations where they need it and we bring a set of utility abilities that not every healer brings. We don't heal like Paladins heal, so you will notice that difference. We're all about maintaining mana and dumping it when we need to. Spell selection is key. There is no "always do this and win" like there is with Holy Paladin healing. Maintenance is a huge part of our gameplay. ES, RT, HST, EB all should be maintained. HR if there are people stacked to get healed by it. Fill with Chain Heal if mana allows during aoe damage otherwise fill with Healing Wave during low damage.

[siccora]

hey thank you guys. so my ui is pretty good i think. i got all my spells cd monitoring and i really find it helpful to give every spell a soundeffect. like a sword swing if EB is ready, or a "BÄM" if i can drop my HST. so that is pretty much settled. i think, coming from a paladin, i have to rethink my position in the raid. seeing me as a supporter does make more sense. and yes, i felt the power really, when the raid was in danger. i always got something to save them. again, thanks.

the only think i cannot "create" is a sound that comes up when i got no ES on nobody in my raid.