Is it worth playing Sub in 6.2?

[Virium]

Sub is definitely back on top of single target. What I'm trying to figure out right now is outside the opener, whether it is better to use Vanish like normal. Or do we couple Shadow Dance and Vanish for +30% damage during SD with the 4 set.

Supposedly it's best to literally use Vanish on cooldown with the 4 set bonus.

[Deleted]

Sub is definitely back on top of single target. What I'm trying to figure out right now is outside the opener, whether it is better to use Vanish like normal. Or do we couple Shadow Dance and Vanish for +30% damage during SD with the 4 set.

From what I read, its best to use it before pull to get the 30% buff for the burst, and also on CD as with the 4 set it should reduce the cooldown by half on average so waiting around 15 seconds is wasting valuable time. It is more worth getting 2-3 ambushes out of the subterfuge, increasing find weakness uptime by up to 15 seconds per vanish, than to have a 30% damage for 6 or so ambushes and only having 20 seconds/ min of uptime. That is the whole power of the 4 set, maximizing find weakness time.

[Deleted]

It's not even worth to pay a sub, not to mention playing sub

u want to say its not worth to play sub spec in 6.2? or understood u wrong

[Deleted]

Wait so is Sub still the best spec?

[Deleted]

I'm wondering about that as well. Levelling a Rogue now and from what I can see here, it sort of looks like a Subtlety/Combat combo is the way to go, but is that only when you're already in full tier and with the class trinket? It'll take me some time to get that for me, so from a new Rogue's perspective, is Sub and Combat the way to go all the way then, or only when you're massively geared?

[Sallador]

Playing Assassination & Combat at the mo, much fun, many DPS.

[shaithis]

Yes, it is stronger ST than Assn, and better for ST in fights with many adds (FoK evis). Takes more skill though, so not for everyone...

[Kazzai]

Or do we couple Shadow Dance and Vanish for +30% damage during SD with the 4 set.

I know im missing something, but whats this extra 20% you speak of. Sinister calling?

[Virium]

I know im missing something, but whats this extra 20% you speak of. Sinister calling?

The tooltip is wrong, it's a 30% damage increase, not 10%.

[Skarzog]

I posted this in another thread, but I am an advocate for Sub right now. I am only 4M bosses into HFC, but I switched back to Sub for a few reasons.

First, Sub is the superior single target spec, period. Second, I hate blindside with a passion. The amount of RNG that proc instills into the spec is annoying. Going without Blindside procs for a few Mutilates in a row has a severe impact on your dps outside dispatch range. I value reliability during progression from pull to pull. Third, Soul Capacitor. I use the trinket, its an annoying trinket, I probably shouldn't use it. However, Sub is much more well suited to take advantage of the procs. With the new 4 set you will almost always have a cool down going or at minimum have FW up. When I play Assassination, most of my SC procs feel wasted.

I am a fan of Sub right now. I even switch back to sub on High Council, a fight most people would argue favors Assassination. But with our guild killing Bloodboil almost immediately, the majority of the fight turned into single target and Sub just pulled ahead for me each time. Honestly even during the first two minutes with 2 target cleave, I was able to keep up or surpass all my Assassination pulls as sub. When the Blindside procs were good, Assassination was fine, but when the procs were bad... Sub on the other hand gave me very reliable performance from one pull to another. After so many pulls I had my timing down, I knew where cooldowns lined up and it was like clockwork; I loved it.

[KiwifruitOCE]

I posted this in another thread, but I am an advocate for Sub right now. I am only 4M bosses into HFC, but I switched back to Sub for a few reasons.

First, Sub is the superior single target spec, period. Second, I hate blindside with a passion. The amount of RNG that proc instills into the spec is annoying. Going without Blindside procs for a few Mutilates in a row has a severe impact on your dps outside dispatch range. I value reliability during progression from pull to pull. Third, Soul Capacitor. I use the trinket, its an annoying trinket, I probably shouldn't use it. However, Sub is much more well suited to take advantage of the procs. With the new 4 set you will almost always have a cool down going or at minimum have FW up. When I play Assassination, most of my SC procs feel wasted.

I am a fan of Sub right now. I even switch back to sub on High Council, a fight most people would argue favors Assassination. But with our guild killing Bloodboil almost immediately, the majority of the fight turned into single target and Sub just pulled ahead for me each time. Honestly even during the first two minutes with 2 target cleave, I was able to keep up or surpass all my Assassination pulls as sub. When the Blindside procs were good, Assassination was fine, but when the procs were bad... Sub on the other hand gave me very reliable performance from one pull to another. After so many pulls I had my timing down, I knew where cooldowns lined up and it was like clockwork; I loved it.

You get to a point where your multistrike is so high that rupture ticks don't even feel like rng any more. Currently sitting on just under 50% ms, my opening rotation is exactly the same every pull bar two globals where I will either interchange eviscerate and rupture, depending on procs. I thought previously that the spec would feel worse with more multistrike, but it actually feels a lot smoother.

Jump on the sub train lads.

[Aluren]

So, is assa still ahead on heroic gear or does sub pulls ahead that early?

[Prodyne]

i feel it is better to play assassination for any fight that has an important last 35% (mannoroth, hellfire council, xhulhorac, tyrant, etc).

[KiwifruitOCE]

So, is assa still ahead on heroic gear or does sub pulls ahead that early?

The only point mut could potentially be ahead is when you have 2pc t17 and 2pc t18 and no archimonde trinket. I still think sub would be better here anyhow, though. Would have to run sims to be sure.

[Deleted]

I always found Assas easier to play than sub. On single target bosses anyway

[Essem]

After getting 4pc t18 and heroic archi trinket. Ive gone back and forth between sub and mut. Personally i want to play mut, but it seems really far behind for me on ST.
Like 10k ballpark behind. I might be doing something wrong but yea. You have all the crit and CP's in the world as mut, but the abilities just dont do enough damage to compete with sub, 200k+ ambushes and 180-200k evis's is just too good.

I just hope they remove the conidtional requirement away form backstab all together. Its just getting annoying at this point.

[Deleted]

I'm so glad to see there is hope for sub spec, ive just recieved a warforged normal archimonde trinket... and my burst is just :O hopefully when i get 2set/4set it will be through the roof throughout the fight

[Deleted]

Made a long as fuck post but decided to make it a whole separate post with my decisions for what bosses i would play what spec on.

[Redknot]

From what I read, its best to use it before pull to get the 30% buff for the burst, and also on CD as with the 4 set it should reduce the cooldown by half on average so waiting around 15 seconds is wasting valuable time. It is more worth getting 2-3 ambushes out of the subterfuge, increasing find weakness uptime by up to 15 seconds per vanish, than to have a 30% damage for 6 or so ambushes and only having 20 seconds/ min of uptime. That is the whole power of the 4 set, maximizing find weakness time.

This is still funky to me. Currently 2p so I can't experience the 4p rhythm yet. Due to not having 4p I would think outside the opener, it's better to use vanish as normal. Anyone think differently?

[Haga]

It's probably better to just use the 2p as normal until you get 4p..

Sub is good fun, working out the timings for some bosses makes it even more interesting :P