So apparent Grom gets a free pass cuz the Draenei are "above" fighting

[Friendlyimmolation]

I think Grom getting all weepy and remorseful about his actions would be the bad writing. Grom, in any timeline, has never been the soulful and introspective type. As far as he is concerned creating the Iron Horde was the best thing for his people at the time. Fighting alongside the Horde and Alliance against the Burning Legion after he witnesses how strong those factions are, was also the thing he thought was best for his people. If he were confronted by Yrel and/or Durotan...that's exactly what he would say to them as well.

He looked drained / spiritually exhausted in the MU when Thrall found him but that was after years of the blood curse. I dont want to see him get all weepy but there should have been some sort of dialogue.

[kyoloco]

i thought the whole point of WoD was to have Grom join the horde

[Friendlyimmolation]

i thought the whole point of WoD was to have Grom join the horde

Well they cant just come out and say that.

[KrazyK923]

More like "this guy used a magic shard of time to show me a vision of my race enslaved and enemies of demons, and the elements saw it as true, and he said the draenei would get in the way of us stopping it.

Exactly the same.

Grom was not forced whatsoever, and its hilarious to see his fanboys spin around and around trying to say that he isn't guilty for his actions.

[Brewhan]

This is really infuriating because Grom gave the orders to kill Yrels sister to help bring forth a dark naruu or something. Sure it was nerzhul doing the action but the higher up aka Grom gave the order. Yrel should have freakin chopped Groms head off at the end of that cinematic and been done with it. Velen would not be pleased with them being peaceful with those who slayed them. This grom is not the good guy grom we know and Garrosh isnt really even his son because its an alternative timeline. It "could" have been his son like a potential future he chose but its not his son. He has no relationship with his garrosh and this whole timeliness expansion is bullshiet i hate this game rageeee.

[dproject]

You guys don't get it. why grom is forgiven is because we are in Ramadan month.

[qwertyui]

This is really infuriating because Grom gave the orders to kill Yrels sister to help bring forth a dark naruu or something. Sure it was nerzhul doing the action but the higher up aka Grom gave the order. Yrel should have freakin chopped Groms head off at the end of that cinematic and been done with it. Velen would not be pleased with them being peaceful with those who slayed them. This grom is not the good guy grom we know and Garrosh isnt really even his son because its an alternative timeline. It "could" have been his son like a potential future he chose but its not his son.

Grom basically saying this alien is okay but that alien isn't okay. This badass racially discriminates between evil transcendent aliens.

[mysticx]

I think what's hilarious is that people defending Grom are basically saying that he's off the hook because Garrosh told him to do it.

"Mr. Hellscream, your charges are genocide, enslavement, and use of weapons of mass destruction. How do you plea?"

"Innocent, your honor. You see, this guy told me to do it."

Your behind on your Azerothian law, i notice...

It's known as "The orc defense", claiming that you have been manipulated frees you of any and all blame and/or punishment for atrocities committed, no matter how gleefully you did them, it worked for MU Grom too, a lifetime of slaughtering whatever he bumped into, and 5 minutes of sanity (or rather aiming his psychotic rage at somebody who actually deserved it) and he's absolved of everything and made a hero as well! ~_~

[Gen4Glock21]

Even though I have played horde 95% of my time, and tend to have a bias for the horde, I agree with the OP. The story sucks, at least they could of written it somehow that Grom was brainwashed or somehow under the control of Gul'Dan. If not that Grom should of been at the very least hauled off to a Stormwind prison at the end of the cinematic to spend the rest of his life in jail or even brought back in a later expansion from jail, some redemption story where he is needed for some threat ect. The story is just bad IMO. Although I canceled my account about 4 months back so not sure how the story plays out in the game so it might be better. Only thing I am going off of is the end cinematic.

[spinner981]

Reminds me of MoP's ending, and it basically resulted in the worst xpac this game has ever seen.

[Belisaurio]

Grom should face a trial by duel. I don't know who should be the other guy to execute the trial (Thrall? Yreel?...), but in the ned, Grom should win the fight without killing the other one.
Then, all of them should go out and get drunk, sing near a fire, and eat some pork. At least, this seems better in the eyes of the other ones (like Grom understood the lesson, and now is another powerful ally, bla bla bla).

[dangthe]

The best part of this expansion was the intro cinematic It's like one of those movies that you want to watch because of the cool trailer and after you're done, you cannot fathom what you just spent 2 hours of your life on.

[SylviaDragon]

So we are basically accepting the rule of Grom and his Iron Horde and just giving him a free pass for all the unprovoked death and destruction he inflicted because the space goats don't have a spine? I am not cool with this at all. How is this any better than what Garrosh and his Hoard did? at least Garrosh could say he had an old god in his head.

[Silverware]

We didn't slaughter the Germans did we?

Not directly.

Other Losses claims that the U.S. dismantled the German welfare agencies, including the German Red Cross, then dismissed the Swiss Government from its role as Protecting Power. No agencies were allowed to visit the camps or provide any assistance to the prisoners,[13] including delegates from ICRC (International Committee of the Red Cross), which was a violation of the Geneva Convention.[14] It further states that the only notable protest against this was from William Lyon Mackenzie King, Prime Minister of Canada.[15]

Bacque states that the press was also prevented from visiting the camps, and therefore was unable to report on the state of the camps and the condition of the prisoners.

The book states that many of the U.S. camps consisted of open fields surrounded by barbed wire, with no shelter or toilet facilities. In these camps prisoners were forced to sleep on the ground in the open, though it claims that the U.S. Army had plenty of surplus tents which could have been issued.[16] No supplies such as blankets were supplied to the prisoners, even though these were in good supply at various locations such as the depot at Naples. In a letter General Everett Hughes stated that there were "more stocks than we can ever use; stretch as far as eye can see."[17]

Other Losses claims that nearly one million German prisoners died while being held by United States and French forces at the end of World War II. Specifically, it claims: "The victims undoubtedly number over 800,000, almost certainly over 900,000 and quite likely over a million. Their deaths were knowingly caused by army officers who had sufficient resources to keep the prisoners alive."[1]

Other Losses contains an analysis of a medical record that it states supports the conclusion of a prisoner death rate of 30%.[6] Bacque also referred to a 1950 report from the German Red Cross which stated that 1.5 million former German POWs were still officially listed as missing, fate unknown.

The book claims that approximately 15% of the deaths in the U.S. camps were from starvation or dehydration and that most deaths were caused by dysentery, pneumonia, or septicaemia, as a result of the unsanitary conditions and lack of medicine.[7] Other Losses further claims that officers from the U.S. Medical Corps reported death rates far higher than they had ever seen before.[8]

[Deleted]

inc Grom Hellscream, Warchief of the Horde, once again teaming up with Thrall.

Metzen's only reason for fucking up the entire timeline and this expansion becomes clear. He's basically a new attempt at what Garrosh should have been.

So bad.

I agree for the most part. This seems like a way to bring Grom back to the Horde and fulfill the role that Garrosh was supposed to fill.

Remember when they said Garrosh was supposed to become a good guy in Cataclysm but the team wasn't communicating clearly? One part went in the direction of making him a good guy (Stonetalon questline) and the other part wanted to make him a bad guy.

This conflict made the playerbase see Garrosh as a failed character storyline and they wanted to kill him off to be done with him (not me, I actually like Garrosh still, I hope he comes back someday)

So yeah... Garrosh was a fun experiment in bringing a Hellscream back. But the experiment failed and so they tried something different by bringing Grom Hellscream himself back. They are very much alike, they fulfill the same role in the Horde army / politics but Grom has more fans than Garrosh.

So here he is. I actually like this, as I really hated killing Garrosh. But if we get Grom himself back instead then I can somewhat live with it. The Horde needs some aggresive leaders to spice things up and to fuel the Horde/Alliance war. Otherwise it's boring World of Peacecraft.

[caervek]

It's a stupid stupid stupid way to end it. Basically it comes off as feeling like Blizzard did this entire expansion just to bring Grom back from the dead lol. The idea he should face no consequences is stupid, it's like saying "oh, well we've captured Hitler, but he's apologised so he can go" it's STUPID, you can't just change the bad guy mid expansion and expect people to not want the original bad guy imprisoned/killed, especially when he's less likable than the new bad guy >.>

[KaPe]

When fighting Fel Lord Zakuun in the actual raid, you have Grom basically cheering you on. Why is he so freaking happy to see us? He should be wondering if we're here to finish him off right after we deal with the demons. There's no reason for this sudden friendship, from either side.

But no, after the fight is over, he's assuring us that he's fine and he'll help us afterwards. (also, mutilating the corpse... attaboy Grom, you sure deserve the honor after your role in the fight as glorified cheerleader) Great, cool, awesome ... but why is his head still attached to his body at that point? Heroes of Azeroth aren't particularily merciful sort and have killed hundreds of enemies for far lesser transgressions. He didn't do shit to earn his redemption and we don't need him.

And during Archimonde fight, his presence is largely insignificant. Yeah, sure, gameplay mechanic (even though we have Yrel actually do something in there... and Khadgar being useless), but at least they could hint at him doing something important, thus making it crucial to keep him alive. There's nothing except his annoying yells.

Also, for those trolling "lol he'd just cleave Yrel in two with Gorehowl" - there's armies of Horde, Alliance, various npc heroes and ourselves in there. He was tortured by demons and nowhere near his prime. He's powerless to do anything.

It's a terrible ending. At very least, he should lose his position as Warchief - not to mention be judged in a trial. Or just get an axe to his head and be done with it. You don't stand side by side and cheer with someone who tortured and murdered your people, friends and family. At very least, there should be "As for you, Grommash Hellscream, and your crimes against people of Dreanor..." line somewhere in there, maybe finished with actual 6.3 quest line or whatever. Not completely ignoring all of his previous sins because ORCSORCSORCS!

I had my issues with WoW story at various points, but this was by far the worst one yet. There better be something else in there, be it 6.3, book, comic or whatever. Not blue poster excusing this terrible plotline by saying "he's a good guy now!"

[Deleted]

It's a stupid stupid stupid way to end it. Basically it comes off as feeling like Blizzard did this entire expansion just to bring Grom back from the dead lol. The idea he should face no consequences is stupid, it's like saying "oh, well we've captured Hitler, but he's apologised so he can go" it's STUPID, you can't just change the bad guy mid expansion and expect people to not want the original bad guy imprisoned/killed, especially when he's less likable than the new bad guy >.>

Gul'dan is more likable than Grom? whut?

Gul'dan makes a great villain, sure. But I think it would be a million times easier to forgive Grom than forgiving Gul'dan.

[rda]

Thoughts?

Thoughts? They don't call it lolore for no reason.

Another thought: Metzen. Just Metzen.

[caervek]

Gul'dan is more likable than Grom? whut?

Gul'dan makes a great villain, sure. But I think it would be a million times easier to forgive Grom than forgiving Gul'dan.

Gul'dan is a great villain and so is likable in the same way most great villains are.

Grom on the other hand is just a loser, he isn't even the Grom from our timeline so he has none of that self sacrifice badass stuff going on for him. He is just a loser who assembled an army, massacred people of all races (including his own) and was generally a terrible person before getting defeated. He is basically Garrosh with cool hair and less EMO baggage, the difference being his faction didn't partially turn good on him they turned bad-er.

This is gonna sound mad, but it's like Power Rangers, nobody wanted Rita to beat the rangers because she wasn't cool, they were cool and she was bad (like Grom). Then when Lord Zed showed up and pwned the Rangers destroying their Zords in the process he was so cool that many kids actually rooted for him against the rangers (I am not saying Gul'dan is so much better than Grom that we want him to kill us, just that Grom was a loser both as a villain and as a redeemed hero who hasn't even redeemed himself).