Assassination question.

[Deleted]

When I have envenom up, should I go for as many muti/dis as possible or should I stop when I reach enough CP to use envenom ?

Let's say I got 5 CP, 55 Energy and 3 sec left on envenom. Should I spend this energy on muti or should I start to pool for next envenom?

If I pool for energy it means more uptime, if I muti I gain more dps for the moment, but then I have to pool a much larger cap. What is more of a damage-gain here?

[Ohmygonzo]

Try to keep envenom buff between 1.8 - 0 sec duration left when you refresh it.
If you refresh it with 5cp above 1.8 sec duration left, i think you clip the buff.
That wont really matter once you get your Archi trinket, since it will be impossible to lose the envenom buff.

[Deleted]

I feel you there. But It's more like.
Some people say that you should spend as many builders as you possible can during the envenom, and some say other stuff.

So in the scenario I made up, I have 5 CP and 55 energy with 3 sec left on envenom.
From there, should I spend my 55 energy on another muti, so I have 7-8 CP, or should I just start pooling for the next envenom?

[Deleted]

Personally i use Mutilate at any time when the envenom buff is up as long as:
-The mutilate has no chance of giving me more than 10 combo points total.
-I do not need the energy for something else (Rupture or Envenom. In your specific scenario you would get enough back before the next Envenom).
-I am not pooling energy in wait for using cooldowns.

I do not see any problem with pooling extra combo points as long as you use them up in time so you won't be forced to Envenom twice in a row.

[wavefunctionp]

Continuing building (without capping cp) if you have the envenom buff. You are trying to keep envenom up as much as possible with as little clipping as possible. If you are getting high on energy during envenom and below cap on cp, build, if you are getting low on energy during envenom, pool. (If you are high on both energy and cp, and envenom is up, clip envenom.) Use anticipation to "smooth out" your envenom uptime. Build higher cp when rupture is getting low to quickly rupture and be ready for the next envenom.

[Deleted]

Thanks! This made it a bit more clear, then I'm doing it right. So it's a bit logical behind it, as Wavefunction said, "If you are getting high on energy during envenom and below cap on cp, build, if you are getting low on energy during envenom, pool.". So I cant go in blind and just spam everything without a little thought behind it, makes sense.

Is there something more that I should be aware of being quite new to rogue?

[Adoxe]

Continuing building (without capping cp) if you have the envenom buff. You are trying to keep envenom up as much as possible with as little clipping as possible. If you are getting high on energy during envenom and below cap on cp, build, if you are getting low on energy during envenom, pool. (If you are high on both energy and cp, and envenom is up, clip envenom.) Use anticipation to "smooth out" your envenom uptime. Build higher cp when rupture is getting low to quickly rupture and be ready for the next envenom.

So what exactly changes once you have the Archimonde trinket? I have the normal trinket atm and no 2 set but most likely getting 2 set tonight. Also, should I let Envenom drop completely before refreshing or is it fine to refresh it slightly before it drops? Also, sorry didn't mean to hijack the thread but I'm interested as I've just gone Assassination and wanna know what I'm doing in time for raid. :P

[Deleted]

Np Adoxe. I'm kinda wondering that too. That's why I made that scenario in my first post :d.

But I'll guess it's fine to refresh it with less than 1.8 sec left, if you have the energy to it.

But I'm wondering if it's a dps-gain to reuse it >1.8 or do another builder and then cap. Dno

[Adoxe]

Np Adoxe. I'm kinda wondering that too. That's why I made that scenario in my first post :d.

But I'll guess it's fine to refresh it with less than 1.8 sec left, if you have the energy to it.

But I'm wondering if it's a dps-gain to reuse it >1.8 or do another builder and then cap. Dno

Yeah, right now I'm refreshing it with <1.8 sec, I'm never out of energy, In fact I think I have too much of it lol. Just gotta make sure I'm doing it right though.

[wavefunctionp]

So what exactly changes once you have the Archimonde trinket? I have the normal trinket atm and no 2 set but most likely getting 2 set tonight. Also, should I let Envenom drop completely before refreshing or is it fine to refresh it slightly before it drops? Also, sorry didn't mean to hijack the thread but I'm interested as I've just gone Assassination and wanna know what I'm doing in time for raid. :P

Nothing effectively. It just makes envenom optimation, and therefor uptime, more important. Envenom optimization is actually a very small effect normally. A percent or so. The trinket just makes pooling and then using builders inside of envenom a bit more important, and makes it easier through more cp generation from seal fate. It's a feedback loop.

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Np Adoxe. I'm kinda wondering that too. That's why I made that scenario in my first post :d.

But I'll guess it's fine to refresh it with less than 1.8 sec left, if you have the energy to it.

But I'm wondering if it's a dps-gain to reuse it >1.8 or do another builder and then cap. Dno

It is optimal to use envenom with less than 1.8s remaining. Only use it before then if you are going to cap energy or cp. Clipping the envenom buff is unavoidable at times. It is fine. But never cap energy/cp.

[Eileana]

I feel you there. But It's more like.
Some people say that you should spend as many builders as you possible can during the envenom, and some say other stuff.

So in the scenario I made up, I have 5 CP and 55 energy with 3 sec left on envenom.
From there, should I spend my 55 energy on another muti, so I have 7-8 CP, or should I just start pooling for the next envenom?

I'd rather wait to 100~energy before hitting Envenom, in case a Trinket proccs.

[Khas]

So what exactly changes once you have the Archimonde trinket? I have the normal trinket atm and no 2 set but most likely getting 2 set tonight. Also, should I let Envenom drop completely before refreshing or is it fine to refresh it slightly before it drops? Also, sorry didn't mean to hijack the thread but I'm interested as I've just gone Assassination and wanna know what I'm doing in time for raid. :P

Only thing that changes is that you are going to be casting a lot more Envenoms, even if you already have a buff active, thus clipping it.

[fadedmind]

So what exactly changes once you have the Archimonde trinket? I have the normal trinket atm and no 2 set but most likely getting 2 set tonight. Also, should I let Envenom drop completely before refreshing or is it fine to refresh it slightly before it drops? Also, sorry didn't mean to hijack the thread but I'm interested as I've just gone Assassination and wanna know what I'm doing in time for raid. :P

It's safe to renew envenom between 0-1.8 secs left so it'll add whatever time on buff is left to the new envenom buff. If you renew >1.8 secs you will clip your envenom and waste it. your gearing goes towards mastery after you get the arch trinket since mut and dispatch have a 50 or 51% chance to crit with envenom up. Since you aim to maximise envenom uptime that's like have a static 50% chance to crit.

[Adoxe]

Nothing effectively. It just makes envenom optimation, and therefor uptime, more important. Envenom optimization is actually a very small effect normally. A percent or so. The trinket just makes pooling and then using builders inside of envenom a bit more important, and makes it easier through more cp generation from seal fate. It's a feedback loop.

- - - Updated - - -



It is optimal to use envenom with less than 1.8s remaining. Only use it before then if you are going to cap energy or cp. Clipping the envenom buff is unavoidable at times. It is fine. But never cap energy/cp.

Only thing that changes is that you are going to be casting a lot more Envenoms, even if you already have a buff active, thus clipping it.

It's safe to renew envenom between 0-1.8 secs left so it'll add whatever time on buff is left to the new envenom buff. If you renew >1.8 secs you will clip your envenom and waste it. your gearing goes towards mastery after you get the arch trinket since mut and dispatch have a 50 or 51% chance to crit with envenom up. Since you aim to maximise envenom uptime that's like have a static 50% chance to crit.

Alright, thanks for the replies everyone, appreciate it a lot!