Fvking ''mandatory'' talents are like 3x worse than old trees imo

[purebalance]

But the old trees were like 51-61 mandatory talent points spent unless you wanted to be subpar?

lol no they weren't. Bad players believed this. If it didn't give straight up dps it was "bad". In BC threat was still a real thing I had a lock spec I used in SSC that blew the other locks I raided with out of the water and never pulled threat thanks to what I spec'd into. Granted you were stuck with 1-2 specs in BT, but even there you had flexibility on what you put points in.

[GrieverXIII]

The old system was a path for your character and fed into the RPG aspect, new system is just another way WoW is moving away from being an RPG.

Maybe when you were levelling and clueless about the game, but if you wanted to do anything meaningful endgame-wise, you just weren't getting it done if you didn't follow whatever build was posted on EJ.

Not that i don't agree that the blind levelling part was probably one of the better experience this game had to offer, its something that is sadly very hard to recapture.

Anyway, biggest problem with the current system is the fact Blizzard just can't figure 3 usable talent per tier for every classes. Most of them, at least among the classes i play (which is about half of them) can be split between 3 categories. Baseline, situational and "wtf were they thinking?" which heavily hinders the system.

lol no they weren't. Bad players believed this. If it didn't give straight up dps it was "bad". In BC threat was still a real thing I had a lock spec I used in SSC that blew the other locks I raided with out of the water and never pulled threat thanks to what I spec'd into. Granted you were stuck with 1-2 specs in BT, but even there you had flexibility on what you put points in.

I was also raiding as a Warlock back in BC and i raided with the spec that provided me the most DPS without really worrying about talents that reduced threat. Why? Because Soul Shatter was a thing and watching omen wasn't exactly hard while performing a 1-button rotation outside the CoE refresh every minutes.

[Reveries1]

Oh boy its hard to remember what it was like as a MM hunter to grab a few talents from the survival tree. The old system allowed for more diversity it allowed you to change how you played by choosing different builds. The problem really comes down to the difference of builds in effectiveness. If you played PVE at a reasonable level you focused on a few things depending on your position.

When it comes to tanking you can only replace Defensive with offensive ability.
When it comes to DPS you can only really separate dps based on AOE or single target.
When it comes to healing you its mainly single target vs multi target.
PVP wise pretty much adds control into each of those.

There was always the best build to accomplish your goals and if you didn't take that then you were being less effective than you could be if only you knew better.

I believe the idea of the new talent system was to make those choices easier to see. I mean you could add in 60 talent points and add a whole bunch of meaningless talent choices and hope players can see the good ones. Or you can remove the fluff and make it easier to make those good choices for your situation. I wonder how many players in here STILL google up their builds even know they only have the 7 tiers with 3 options.

[Eazy]

Old tree: your build was either right or wrong
New tree: your build is flexible and can be changed on a whim

Nope, nope, nope. Rogue had about 3-4 talent specs which were good in PvP. (old talent trees)

[Reveries1]

Nope, nope, nope. Rogue had about 3-4 talent specs which were good in PvP. (old talent trees)

Are you talking about 3-4 with a main focus on a specific spec or 3-4 in general with combinations of all specs? Sub/Com/Ass all seem pretty good in the right situations so that's 3 even without going into the specific talent options.

[Neri25]

Old tree you could do hybrid specs

Hybrid specs that actually worked were nerfed. Just ask rogues.

[Reveries1]

I think one of the main issues is what seems interesting and viable in a PvP aspect is not a thing in PvE and vice versa. While the players in this forum may more often then not focus on pvp the pvp players are the minority. By no means am I saying pvp shouldn't be a thing in talents and its clearly not.

[Aori]

I love the scrubs who were say "if you didn't EJ, you were doing it wrong". EJ was a basic template to help baddies play better, it was by no means the authority on viable specs. Cookie cutter became a term used to describe EJ specs, it didn't define old talent system.

The old system was removed because it wasn't cookie cutter enough, to many OP builds kept slipping through the cracks and blizzard had to keep nerfing and nerfing and nerfing. Blizzard didn't want to manage the old system, required far to my work. The new one requires no thought, it is easy to balance and people can't find something that works better than what was intended.

Good job you're playing the way Blizzard wants you to play.

[Reveries1]

I love the scrubs who were say "if you didn't EJ, you were doing it wrong". EJ was a basic template to help baddies play better, it was by no means the authority on viable specs. Cookie cutter became a term used to describe EJ specs, it didn't define old talent system.

Maybe in a PVP aspect but when it comes to raw numbers you can there is only 3 possible combinations Best/Same/Worse.

[Deleted]

As a holy paladins, I change my talents 10 times each raiding night!

Ok some are worst than others but there's often at least 2 choices for each tiers that either depend of your playstyle or depend of the encounter.

Tier 15: Speed of Light if I need quick burst / Pursuit of Justice for everything else.
Tier 30: First of Justice. But Repentance can have it use too if you need dungeons CC.
Tier 45: I enjoy Sacred Shield a lot, but lots of holypalas prefer Eternal Flame. Both are good.
Tier 60: Unbreakable Spirit if I want to cover my ass. Clemency when tanks or casters need extra protection. Hand of Purity had some use in MoP (Durumu)
Tier 75: I swap from Sanctified Wrath to Divine Purpose according to the fight.
Tier 90: Holy Prism most of the time but Execution Sentence can be useful if you want to focus on tank. Light's Hammer needs to be buffed to be competitive again.
Tier 100: Saved by the Light is excellent in dungeons and against some raid boss. Beacon of Faith everywhere else.

With the old talent tree, I copied them once from a website and then NEVER changed them again. Now I actually need to choose them wisely according to each encounter (aoe/single target, lots of movement or not, heavy damages on tanks or on raid, PvE or PvP etc.)

I dislike lots of Blizzard recent decisions but changing the talents system is one of their best!

[Morbownz]

The old system was replaced because Blizzard wanted to do away with "Cookie Cutter" specs for something more interesting. What's more interesting is the fact that Blizzard created the "Cookie Cutter" spec's within the tree and pretty much balanced the class performance around them. But they worded it in a way that made you feel like it was the players fault and not theirs.
The new talent tree's basically give you the option to choose one of 3 talents, the most important choices are clear choices. So now we have newer cookie cutter specs.

[Reveries1]

The old system was replaced because Blizzard wanted to do away with "Cookie Cutter" specs for something more interesting. What's more interesting is the fact that Blizzard created the "Cookie Cutter" spec's within the tree and pretty much balanced the class performance around them. But they worded it in a way that made you feel like it was the players fault and not theirs.
The new talent tree's basically give you the option to choose one of 3 talents, the most important choices are clear choices. So now we have newer cookie cutter specs.

I think its more they took the the cookie cutter specs and made them baseline and then took the interesting choices out of them and turned them into different talents. When they made the change I always read updates about it as being more their fault and never felt they were blaming the player for finding the optimal builds and were more concerned about the players that did not know the optimal builds.