Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst
1
2
  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by bladebarrier View Post
    when you are forced to install computer automated programs to tell you what to do or even to play the game for you (mouseover macros and shit like that).,
    your are never forced to use those addons though. I know a lot of of people who play wow just fine without all those addons. I think this is just purely your own opinion about the game. A lot of ppl play wow just fine without any macros or addons. ( I personally don't use any macros, just some interface addons like bagnon and shadowunitframe )

    It still amazes me every time I think about the reason why wow was successful 3ven after 10 years was not bit because what the have done on each expansions, but because the engine they wrote 10 years ago IMHO I feel like wow engine is truly legendary in the video game industry
    Last edited by silverzrishi; 2015-07-07 at 07:07 AM.

  2. #22
    Stood in the Fire Boxilot's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    448
    It was pretty smooth, I guess, compared to other mmos back in the day. But not anymore. And I actually find FFXIV more intuitive than WoW. Plus, FFXIVs way of changing UI makes me uninterested in addons (much like Rift's). Personally I find it a negative when a UI is so bad you can't raid with it and you have to use addons in order to get all the information you need. This is especially true for healers in WoW. GW2 also got a smooth and nice ui, making addons moot.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Littleraven View Post
    I would argue that WildStar is about as smooth as WoW. Not quite the same as it but close in terms of movement. But yeah. WoW really is special as a whole package. It is FAR from perfect (especially in recent years) but it just has a way of welcoming in new people by being easy to play.

    I have played just about every other MMO that has come out in the past decade and WoW still feels the best to play to me. That may just be bias though.
    I'm being overly-negative towards WoW in this thread, which is unfair because it was legitimately a game I thought was good and enjoyed for years, but I would say it's just your bias.

    This poorly articulated "smoothness" argument people like to make about WoW seems to boil down to a familiarity based preference. People get used to WoW through many years and many hours played, and particularities about how the engines of other games operate are viewed as some sort of deficiency. Even aspects that are technically superior can be viewed that way, based on it's foreignness.

    I stopped playing around mid-cata, simply out of boredom and a desire for something fresh (which the MMO market amply supplied), but revisited WoW this past december with a friend.
    We were laughing at how clunky and sliddy it felt compared to the higher quality modern MMOs we'd become used to. Animations were piss-poor, several being awkwardly reused (warrior shouts and leap had the same anim, really?), and they(the animations) did a bad job of conveying your character's actions, the timing often feeling off, and your character felt disconnected from the world and seemed to "slid" about over top of it rather then walking on it. Responsiveness of controls was no more then par-for-course compared to anything else we'd played. GW2, Wildstar, PSO2, Tera, Archeage, Rift, and w.e else we'd played up to that point (FF14 since then), these other games often felt "smoother" then WoW when we tried it anew.
    GCDs are probably a big offender in this too. Pretty awkward getting used to one game's gcds and then trying a different game who's timings are slightly different. Geez did FF14 ever feel slow when I first picked it up, but that slow pace does the over all combat system well once used to it (and when you get a decent number of skills on your bar).

  4. #24
    Stood in the Fire Boxilot's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    448
    Quote Originally Posted by Arewn View Post
    GCDs are probably a big offender in this too. Pretty awkward getting used to one game's gcds and then trying a different game who's timings are slightly different. Geez did FF14 ever feel slow when I first picked it up, but that slow pace does the over all combat system well once used to it (and when you get a decent number of skills on your bar).
    I actually didn't notice that the GCD in FFXIV was longer than "normal" when I first started playing until someone pointed it out. Now, I personally, find it a much smoother way of playing. I get to plan and execute abilities instead of just mad smashing on what might be glowing in glaring colours on my screen atm.

  5. #25
    WoW original strength was broken when the Cataclysm happened. As much as people complained about the old world as it was for alts, it's design was very immersive to new players. When I came into WoW, I came into Elwynn Forest and I had also found Stormwind the same day. I remember discovering how to dance and being surprised that when I typed "lol", my toon would actually laugh. I remember professions being interesting. Then as I got near completion of Elwynn Forest, I finally took a look at Westfall and I thought it was a cool theme, a rugged farming zone. Then I took the road into Duskwood as a lowbie and I got killed a few times, but made it to Darkshire and I thought the dark theme was cool too and I wanted to level up to experience it. Later on after looking at maps, I also found Redridge, which was less impressive, but still cool. And there was one time I was on the coast of Westfall and I swam south to STV and landed on the Zandalari faction isle and eventually swam to the mainland and found a jungle with tigers and panthers and that was super cool. Anyhow, there was one time I was in SW and I wandered into the Tram. I got on and came to Ironforge. I was wondering how the low level dwarves and elves were hanging in Elwynn Forest and the Tram explained the dwarves. The map on the official website said there was a boat route to Darnassus in the Wetlands, so I did this journey. I was after midnight, but I had to see it. I saw Dun Morogh and Loch Modan. Then I hit the wetlands and the crocolisks were jerks, but I made it to Menethil Harbor and got the FP. Somehow I missed the Loch Modan FP the first run through, but I went back for it another day. Anyhow, I sailed to Auberdine and then sailed to Darnassus. I didn't see Darkshore at that point because I was too excited to see that city in a tree I had read about a few years ago when WoW was in beta. I had joined the game when Naxx was endgame, but I was unaware of raids or any of that. After I read Darnassus, I hearthed back after looking around a bit. The game world was big and huge.

    Then, I did exploration missions on other days. I did want to get the FP to STV, so I suicide ran my way to Booty Bay. That city was mindblowingly cool, but then a boat pulled up, so spontaneity compelled me to jump aboard. Then I reached Ratchet. I got the FP and decided to explore the Barrens and I found an African Savanna type zone that had orcs and tauren NPCs by guard towers. I decided that I should travel to Darnassus from here and to see the zones along the way. I passed through Ashenvale and it was a cool zone that resembled a lush mixed mesophytic forest. Then I got to Darkshore and passed through what resembled a Pacific Northwest forest and then I reached the docks and I think I sailed back to the Wetlands to make a complete cycle. At some point, I explored the other boat to Theramore but I didn't go too far into the swamp.

    I was leveling too between these missions. I remember running the dead mines a lot and unfortunately, as a priest, nobody ever knew how to tank and I was told to use fade. After dead mines showed me that the player base actually did not play well, I wasn't into grouping much and was more into the world. At first, I thought that the human leveling experience was gonna be Elwynn Forest 1-10, Westfall 10-20, Redridge 15-25, Duskwood 20-30, STV 30-45, Swamp of Sorrows 35-45, Blasted Lands 45-55, and then Deadwind Pass 55-60 and that I would miss out on the other zones if I didn't make other races. But I was wrong. I very quickly used up all my yellow quests in Duskwood and decided that I should quest the Wetlands and Ashenvale because I needed to see them. And it turns out, that's what I was supposed to figure out to do. I guess I was also supposed to actually take a Delivery to Loch Modan much earlier, but I kinda didn't do that.

    So I worked all three of those zones and leveled up. Another day, I did a mission into Arathi and Hillsbrad and got that FP. Interesting area. I remember finding Ferales, 1k Needles, Tanaris, Desolace, etc. As I leveled, I eventually did STV, Arathi, Alterac, and Desolace for the 30-40 gap, as I realized from here on out, I had to visit everything that wasn't starting zones.

    There was a point where I made a Tauren Druid and I got to see Mulgore and Thunderbluff and I was very impressed with that zone. Later on my druid got to visit Orgrimmar, UC, and Grom Gol. But eventually, I went back to my main and got to level 40 and I could finally get my mount, but I couldn't hope to buy one. I had both Tailoring and Enchanting and I had to drop enchanting to learn mining, as that was how you made money and I eventually got my mount. I had started working on Tanaris and Ferales when my brother got the game. Then he refused to play alliance. I remember there was a phase where I was bored of leveling and found it more fun to attack the crossroads at level 40. But eventually, I decided that I should make an orc warrior and he should make a troll priest. I found the warrior class to be a match made in heaven and switched mains and worked on the game on the horde side.

    Because we could both tank and heal, we hit up literally every low level dungeon. I missed Mara, but did everything else up to BRD.

    As for the exploration side, I had wondered what was left and my human priest eventually got to every zone. Un'goro I think was the last big surprise. Winterspring was pretty cool too. Anyhow, enough with the nostalgia, let me tell you why the original game worked.

    A good game has a good formula. Super Mario World has diverse level themes. The first two levels on either side of Yoshi's house are training levels. If you are truly new, you need to do them both so you have the switch palace to help you out in the 3rd level. That's when the first athletic level happens. There's very few enemies and a lot of jumping. Then, you go to this level where you have platforms floating in the water and the theme is momentum and to keep moving, but it's on training wheels, as you only fall into the water if you miss. Then you get a castle, which has the periodic enemies theme and all castles are like this with dry bones, thomps, fire balls, moving spikeballs, etc. Then you go to a training level for the feather and then you hit an underground level where the screen scrolls slow so it can teach you about intercepts. The ghost house is also intercepts, but mostly focuses on the puzzle. Then you do another athletic level, another momentum level, another castle, etc. The theme switches so you don't get bored.

    A game like Final Fantasy VI has you do story events, dungeons, towns, world map, and constantly gives you new character combinations to use so it stays fresh and adds more complexity to the game as you go.

    What WoW originally did was it gave you a variety of things to do. You came into the world and you leveled slow. You quested at first. Eventually, after level 10, you left Goldshire and your close by class trainer and then had to travel back to Stormwind every time you gained two levels. Questing and killing mobs is one part of the game. Then there was travel and exploration and this was important early on. There were professions you could work on while in the city and an AH to sell gear and buy mats, etc. In the late teens, dungeons were introduced. Dungeons were optional but if you did them, you got a bunch of blues to help you with questing. I also got a few blues from tailoring. This isn't even mentioning the social world. Because leveling was slow, people didn't outpace you and people would run dungeons as they were good exp, but didn't run them too much as it was quite the commitment to do it. Then you could PvP too and get a few blues from vendors near where WSG and AB entrances were. The game gave you a variety of activities to do while leveling and stayed engaging.

    WoW continued to grow until Cataclysm. They fixed the world, so why did new players taper off? Cataclysm broke the old world. LFG made dungeon leveling ideal and didn't require the need of the new world and exp is so fast that you blow by content. The pacing is wrong. New players are alienated by a big world that they need not explore as they are rushed to the level cap.

    I remember leveling my orc warrior from 1 to 70 from February 2007 to around August when I dung 70. That was a long but epic journey and many friends were made. By Outland, everybody knew how to group. Mages knew how to sheep, rogues knew how to sap, hunters pulled, set their pet on aggressive and could rarely ice trap properly, and freaked out if you rolled on a two handed axe with strength on it, because it's a hunter weapon, so, I learned quickly not to invite hunters to the group. I also avoided ret pallies, as they didn't really bring anything, they were just there. But anyhow, most people knew how to play. I usually grouped with rogues and mages, as I was the warrior and my brother was the priest.

    What I did like about BC was the original daily hubs. Skettis had a bombing quest and then an escort quest, which was easier if you grouped up and often led to world PvP. Ogri'la had a simon says quest, another bombing quest, wranging rays, and banishing the demons. As a prot warrior, killing was slow and dailies that had us do non traditional combat things was refreshing. Netherwing ledge is what you progressed into after enough dailies and finishing up Blade's Edge, Netherstorm, and Shadowmoon. Netherwing ledge had some issues, but booterang was cool and going into the mines was an adventure that stacked many objectives onto each other. Never again has the game had dailies that were as fun as the original. When the cap was ten and many didn't require traditional combat, it was fine. Wrath failed to make any good daily hubs. Cataclysm had grindy ones, but decent enough to work through. Pandaria had a good set up and I didn't mind it. Draenor lacks good end game stuff.

    I felt in both BC and Pandaria, they had the most satisfying end game. Pandaria was accessible and I could see everything and there was a diverse amount of content to do. Scenarios, 5 mans, LFR, dailies, world bosses, etc. It had new battle grounds too, but I really only did them for the legendary and once to see what the Valley of the Four Winds one was about. BC had those hubs I talked about and meaningful 5 mans an the allure of progressing in Kara. Kara, for me and my friends, had too strict of character class requirements. I could tank and strategize my way through pulls, but Moroes didn't care about that. He cared about shackles and hunter traps. Maiden required a healer that knew how to get out of repentance and debuff everyone. Later on, when Kara got nerfed with the Wrath patch, Shade of Aran gave us shit. Picking up the elemental adds was fairly tricky too. Still though, I liked unique classes that each had their own skills. I often study raid design of vanilla and BC, but not anything after, as take the player, not the class, ended up making raids about dodging attacks and less about playing a role.

    But I often feel that the breaking of the world, broke the core of the game. Alts aren't something I do now, as I can't revisit the world I was amazed by the first time. During Wrath, I made a game of optimally leveling alts through the old world. As each expansion hits, previous content is trivialized and it's almost pointless to travel through Outland, Northrend, Cataclysm, and Pandaria, before hitting Draenor. An expansion is supposed to add on to a core game. Like how Brood War added on to Starcraft and how Lord of Destruction added on to Diablo II. BC added on to WoW, outside of leaving the old raids, and five mans like Stratholme, Dire Maul, etc, behind. Wrath did the same with endgame BC and did do the end Northern at 68 thing which I think trivialized some of Outland, but added on to the game, though I didn't fully like how they neutered warriors and CC and made the game favor AoE tanking, which was boring. I also didn't like that we didn't get the Vykrul and Nerubian raid and I thought BC's end game model was more engaging, instead of having a single raid for a tier. Cataclysm finished the old continents, while also breaking it. Pandaria was a fresh new adventure. Draenor was supposed to introduce us to a new planet to explore but they have half assed it so much at this point. The garrisons and the leveling experience was epic, but then it went dry really fast. But as each expansion gets added, old stuff gets sandwiched into shit content that is improperly paced and removes the variety of game play.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrlogar View Post
    Too long but still read it.
    Agree with you on so many levels, man it was a fun read.
    On topic, I still feel wow has lot of life left in it, all depends on what they have planned for next expansion and how soon they deliver it. Personally I haven't been raiding cause of IRL commitments these days, but I am still subbed and keep playing it casually as I still like the atmosphere and the gameplay.
    Playing subtlety is like ballroom dancing, just that there is an ugly monster between you and your partner (tank).
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...traws/advanced

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •