[Shadow] CoP lite / CoP as intended question

[ceall]

Hey guys,

First off, I know weaving is better than CoP lite, but there's something I'd like to know.

So here's the question. If I was about to be using CoP lite with say t18 2p, would it be viable to go for SoD or bender instead of insanity? And if yes, how much difference in DPS (compared to dotweaving) will I be seeing?

If anyone would like to sim it for me, my stats are 25% crit, about 18% haste and 93.5% mastery (which basically is my crit gear with 4 mastery off pieces).

I'd also like to add, that I'm only playing CoP when I'm forced to, meaning when CoP will definitely do a lot more DPS than AS, which is why I'd like to keep it simple with CoP.

[Sxq]

To my knowledge CoP lite relies on insanity for single targeting about the same amount as dot weaving does. So it'll still be the best. Any case where you'd take mindbender you'd want to take AS anyway. SoD doesn't really seem good on any of the HFC fights.

[Kilee25]

A few coplite sims:

Insanity: 40,141, mastery > crit > multi > haste > vers
Mindbender: 38,425, haste > crit > multi > mastery > vers
Surge of Darkness: 38,866: haste > crit > multi > mastery > vers

and then normal CoP:

Insanity (DoTWeaving): 43,077, mastery > crit > multi > haste > vers
Mindbender: 41,457, mastery > haste > crit > multi > vers
SoD: 41,027, mastery > haste > multi > crit > vers

These brief sims are not enough to get the whole picture, and I did not change gear around to attune them to each play style.

The thing that sticks out to me that would support your idea is that the stat weights for CoPLite with SoD align perfectly with the stat weights for AS. If you have a great set of AS gear already, then you might be able to break even playing CoPLite over doing something else, considering you may only have one set of gear.

The numbers aren't so far apart, although I would say that the advantages of DoTWeaving with a proper set of gear would be worth pursuing in the long run, if pushing Mythic raiding. For heroics and lower, I don't think it actually matters much at all what you do, as long as you don't stand in the fire.

[Dawnrage]

off topic but thanks for the work you do Kilee.

[davesignal]

I often feel like the real strength of COP Lite is that, despite using Mind Flay as a filler (or perhaps because it's not using Mind Spike as a filler), it does quite well on movement. The only thing you really have to stop and hard cast is Vampiric Touch, and that's only once every ~15 seconds. Spamming SW:P during movement is actually a pretty acceptable substitute for Mind Flay, if you're not stacking mastery (and you probably aren't, if you're using it as an alternative to AS).

[ThrashMetalFtw]

I'd also like to add, that I'm only playing CoP when I'm forced to, meaning when CoP will definitely do a lot more DPS than AS, which is why I'd like to keep it simple with CoP.

In that case, you should play it properly, CoP lite has been dead since the beta.

I don't know why you would want to play CoP lite when AS is perfectly viable anyway, since the whole idea behind it was to simulate the MoP playstyle of dots+MFI, which just happens to be the same playstyle as AS singletarget, with the added benefit of AS doing way more dmg than CoP lite.

[Deleted]

CoP is overrated tbh, AS is the way to go these days, lots of adds and movement on fights too and since Aspect of the fox got removed....

[Kilee25]

It's posts like that that have pretty much kept CoP from being "over-rated" all expac. If anything, it's under-rated instead. Any time any CoP discussion pops up anywhere, there's a few people who fly into the thread to remind everyone how much better AS is. I don't see how it could possibly have a chance of being over-rated with the amount of people reminding CoP players daily that they are wasting their time playing it.

[Deleted]

People remember that CoPlite involves 100% dot uptime and Flay filler, right?

[Ealyssa]

Why would anyone play CoP badly when AS will do more damage ?
Me don't understand...