Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
LastLast
  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    There seems like an awful lot of contradictions here or poor terminology at best.

    A lot of this also comes off as vague and wishy-washy. What exactly is "challenging" content; why is it so? What mechanics are involved? Which modes; how do you interface with these modes?

    There are no metrics or [precise mechanical explanations. The allusions given again seem dubious at the very best.

    How exactly do you force players to "use all their skillz!!!" in PVE consistent across all modes and gameplay forms?
    Well they have to be horribly vague about stuff they haven't released yet, that just sort of comes with the territory.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    Well they have to be horribly vague about stuff they haven't released yet, that just sort of comes with the territory.
    Natch. Though I think fan enthusiasm isn't helping either. A lot of claims on the sub-reddit seem foolish or outright contradictory/impossible from a game design POV.

    I am both distrusting and cynical about any from developers or enthusiasts without actual mechanical demonstration. A lot of this talk raise an arched eyebrow for me.

  3. #43
    Banned Lazuli's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Your Moms House
    Posts
    3,721

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Did he seriously just say that? Because like, the whole lack of a trinity was one of the main fucking marketing points they used to sell the bloody game.

    I can imagine him with that smug fucking smile on his face while he says that too. Can't even bring myself to watch the video, because that kind of historical revisionism is bullshit. Technically he's right, because they didn't say those exact words. But he's also spouting bullshit because we all know how hard they pushed the whole, "WE DON'T HAVE A HARD TRINITY IN OUR GAME, WE ARE DIFFERENT!" angle.
    GW2 is so edgy if I had a physical copy of the game I'd probably be cut to pieces. I've always loved how they intentionally lack much wanted features and content because 'we're different, teehee!'

    Bunch of Dbags that reinvented the wheel with a square, but hey, we're not WoW!

    Anything with Colin Johanjob makes me facepalm.. I actually felt bad for the guy when he was pretty much the face of ANet for a while, then dropped off... thought he left like every other original ANet dev to be honest.

    It's pretty embarrassing to see him now when he worked on every GW1 campaign, he learned absolutely nothing from that time apparently. I wonder if he regrets the swinging a sword comment when all you do in GW2 is autoattack. Can't take anything he says seriously.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazuli View Post
    It's pretty embarrassing to see him now when he worked on every GW1 campaign, he learned absolutely nothing from that time apparently. I wonder if he regrets the swinging a sword comment when all you do in GW2 is autoattack. Can't take anything he says seriously.
    Ummm, maybe that's all you do but that certainly isn't all there is to do.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Natch. Though I think fan enthusiasm isn't helping either. A lot of claims on the sub-reddit seem foolish or outright contradictory/impossible from a game design POV.

    I am both distrusting and cynical about any from developers or enthusiasts without actual mechanical demonstration. A lot of this talk raise an arched eyebrow for me.
    That's ok I guess, forums need people who see the glass half empty and others who see it half full. Personally I give them the benefit of a doubt until proven otherwise. People here say that dungeons were always bad but that's just not true. They were hard in the beginning when people had to learn the game. You want prove? Just create a lfg group, call it "newbies welcome" and feel how challenging they can be.

    Could you please clarify what you feel sounds contradictory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazuli
    Bunch of Dbags that reinvented the wheel with a square, but hey, we're not WoW!

    Anything with Colin Johanjob makes me facepalm

    Your kind of phrasing makes me sick, can't really reply on stuff like that. Stop, I can reply to one thing: "all you do is autoattack". I think you should learn to play before telling pure nonsense about a game. Thank you.

  6. #46
    I've noticed that with the pre-expansion patch they added a lot more support to the professions that could potentially enhance team play. Lots of new heals (eg necro) and other team utilities, a taunt here and there (eg ranger), etc.

    I think if they make content difficult enough it could push people out of the 'hug boss and nuke it down' mindset. Supporting your team is fun. Killing a boss because you dropped Healing Rain at the right moment is great.

    I guess it counts as a 'soft trinity' in a way?

  7. #47
    It's not a soft trinity it's just plain support. Being a tank or healer is support but because it's not a role or something you spam it doesn't fall into the trinity - just support. Much like boons which are temp healing or tanking only last for but a moment.
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  8. #48
    That's a shame, because GW2 is pretty much the only game that is shunning the trinity in the MMO space. I just started playing it a little bit and now my hopes are kind of dashed. I get why they want the trinity, I really do. It allows you to do a certain kind of PvE content and draws a certain type of player. Some players only like healing, so why would they play GW2?

    On the other hand, why does every game converge on the same sorts of mechanics? Are we to believe the only way an MMO can work is with the trinity? I find that incredibly hard to believe. It feels lazy and I am pretty disappointed. Not that that means anything, since I've played very little GW2.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Varabently View Post
    That's a shame, because GW2 is pretty much the only game that is shunning the trinity in the MMO space. I just started playing it a little bit and now my hopes are kind of dashed. I get why they want the trinity, I really do. It allows you to do a certain kind of PvE content and draws a certain type of player. Some players only like healing, so why would they play GW2?

    On the other hand, why does every game converge on the same sorts of mechanics? Are we to believe the only way an MMO can work is with the trinity? I find that incredibly hard to believe. It feels lazy and I am pretty disappointed. Not that that means anything, since I've played very little GW2.
    I'm confused. Are you complaining that they are adding a trinity? Because they are not....
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    I'm confused. Are you complaining that they are adding a trinity? Because they are not....
    Based on the quotes, it kind of seems like they are leaning that way. What's the purpose of this thread and why would it "create a lot of discussion on the forums" if they weren't making changes to it? Is this just smoke with no fire? Like I said, I scarcely play the game and certainly not at max level, so the ramifications for the topic at hand have limited impact for me personally.

    I'm just saying, what drew me to the game initially were two things: the combat obviously, and the lack of strict roles in PvE. The latter seems to make more "sense" to me from a combat perspective. Healers I can sort of see making sense, what with magic and all, but tanks seem strange. No matter how much armor I put on, presumably a dragon will still stomp on me. Anyway, I'm getting off topic. I just think the trinity is played out and seems like the wrong way for games to go. Just my opinion of course.

  11. #51
    They are not adding trinity in any shape or form. They are trying to make an environment where you would use support more, which includes healing. Currently going zerg dps is meta in this game in PvE. There is no need for healing or any other kind of support like CC or boons (besides might).

    In fact they haven't even added any additional healing to any proffesion so far (rev does not count cause it's new) and they added a new taunt condition but they tend to have long CDs and last for a few seconds.
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Varabently View Post
    On the other hand, why does every game converge on the same sorts of mechanics? Are we to believe the only way an MMO can work is with the trinity? I find that incredibly hard to believe. It feels lazy and I am pretty disappointed. Not that that means anything, since I've played very little GW2.
    MMORPGs are usually heavily dependent on team play and cooperation (the clue is in Massive and Multiplayer) which in most cases involves/requires some sort of specialisation (think of team sports and how there are always different roles within the team).

    In a game where strong enemies chase you down and deal damage to you, avoidance (tanking) and restoration (healing) roles are bound to emerge besides the obvious damage dealing.

    I mean, just look at all the MMORPGs that tried to reinvent the wheel but in the end fell into the same old cliche. I tend to think it's in the nature of the genre.

    GW2 has probably gone the farthest to challenge the trinity paradigm, although I would say the original iteration ended up ruining PvE team play en masse.
    Personally, I think they're going in the right direction. Obviously the hard trinity will never be a part of this game, but more challenging content and a bigger emphasis on support roles is pretty great.

  13. #53
    Healing ans tanky is not the only support in the game. It's just the less used. They are not forcing you to do anything. There are other forms of support or you can just stock to dps. They are just making them more useful supposedly
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  14. #54
    They aren't requiring anything yet abs they never said they would. They just said they want to make an inviroment where support is useful. Tanking and healing was used as an example because they are the least used forms support.

    Go full dps if you want nothing is changing fundamentally
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  15. #55
    It's the player base being stupid. Anet uses an example of healing and the world explodes
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  16. #56
    Legendary! Ealyssa's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Switzerland, Geneva
    Posts
    6,999
    That video is BS, but holy hell ! If I can finally tank in GW2 I'll be back in a second !

    Shity PVE is what drove me away of GW2. Holy trinity is the only true way to build constructed PVE (and not the shity full zerk rush).
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    That video is BS, but holy hell ! If I can finally tank in GW2 I'll be back in a second !

    Shity PVE is what drove me away of GW2. Holy trinity is the only true way to build constructed PVE (and not the shity full zerk rush).
    That's bias false. Though it is true that Anet has made some horrible PvE encounters. I wouldn't say all are bad but most of the explorable dungeons have lame things going on for them and dumb boss fights with inflated white damage.

    Still waiting on those dungeon revamps you promised 2 years ago Anet....

    But on point you can still make a good PvE encounter without the trinity. Blade and soul has great action PvE and that game doesn't have healers.
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    They aren't requiring anything yet abs they never said they would. They just said they want to make an inviroment where support is useful. Tanking and healing was used as an example because they are the least used forms support.

    Go full dps if you want nothing is changing fundamentally
    well as I stated before I disagree. When mobs or the environment do considerably more damage / are more difficult to avoid than before it's likely that you want to have a healing-role in your team. And how does a healing role look like in GW2? Well, technically it can be anyone who knows how to blast finish a waterfield. A thief with his exploding arrows can be a healing role while always ready to swap to the other weapon set to do the damage.

    ...and this is not against what Anet claimed to do. Again, read the blogpost from 3 years ago I posted on the first page. They always wanted players to be able to switch to certain roles dynamically / on the fly. They just don't want people to do ONLY healing, ONLY tanking. They don't want players to wait hours in a queue for a monk profession, every profession in GW2 is capable of supporting the team.
    Last edited by Maarius; 2015-07-21 at 06:54 AM.

  19. #59
    They can't do considerably more damage because the fights we have now are 1 or 2 shot and your dead. Harder =/= more damage. It's actually implementing mechanics. Which is why people favor zerg dps because even with support currently it's not enough to off set the damage you take for the little duration support brings.

    Water field - blast finish. Cool healed 2k oh shit that random mob just hit 4k on me I better... oh wait

    They are not requiring anything. It comes down to player skill. A coordinated team of 5 will continue to be zerg dps just like now. A random pug though might want some support and that is the main point of what Anet is saying - to make support viable. The core game is not changing they are just buffing support in ways that's just not percentage.
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  20. #60
    why is the only option for you one-hits? Getting damage over time, little but consistent damage, is what I'm talking about. Your heal skill may be on cooldown but when you need to survive let's say a room-wide aoe for 30 seconds, you need that group-support.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •