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  1. #1
    Deleted

    Help on Mythic Tyrant Velhari

    Hey, did one night so far and don't really wanna go into too many nights with the wrong strategy.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VhqPAwnkCrL6Kfbt

    My own personal worry is that we are transitioning the boss to quickly into P2 and then using heroism too quickly and thus losing DPS killing off the second add. Officially we just 'cleave it down' but it feels like we waste a lot of DPS.

    Maybe take 3 tempests and burn the add down over P1 so you enter P2 clean is a safer bet? Also maybe use heroism when the second add comes?

    Would things like the shieldtronic potions be viable in P2?

    Also any ways for the tanks to get the adds to stay still properly? Also I notice that from time to time it looks like the boss casts an AoE under the tank during P2, is that a thing? I think it is and we try to avoid it, but so much movement is cancer on melee.

  2. #2
    We did:
    Burn boss while cleaving add, goal was to go into P2 before 3rd Tempest.
    Boss hits 70% and add is at about 40-50%.
    We then nuke the add down so that Boss is roughly at 63% when it dies.
    Boss goes to 60% when the Edict happens, at this point wait if you have to for people's 3 min CDs and use Bloodlust and SINGLE-TARGET the boss.
    Depending on your DPS you should have the boss at 40% just before she casts the Edict or just after. Just suicide this guy with a Warlock gateway and combat ress only if it's a healer.
    Now aim to push the boss to 30%(add spawn) just as she casts her first knockback and use every defensive Raid CD to survive.
    After that, deal with the add(full single-target, rings/cds), make your Warlocks place portals for edicts and it's GG.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyuben View Post
    Hey, did one night so far and don't really wanna go into too many nights with the wrong strategy.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VhqPAwnkCrL6Kfbt

    My own personal worry is that we are transitioning the boss to quickly into P2 and then using heroism too quickly and thus losing DPS killing off the second add. Officially we just 'cleave it down' but it feels like we waste a lot of DPS.

    Maybe take 3 tempests and burn the add down over P1 so you enter P2 clean is a safer bet? Also maybe use heroism when the second add comes?

    Would things like the shieldtronic potions be viable in P2?

    Also any ways for the tanks to get the adds to stay still properly? Also I notice that from time to time it looks like the boss casts an AoE under the tank during P2, is that a thing? I think it is and we try to avoid it, but so much movement is cancer on melee.
    - If we transitioned any slower we'd get the edict + tempest combination, which is horrible. You already know this.
    - The intention in the 2nd phase is to push the boss as fast as possible, not the add. We want the aura to be as low as possible for when we go into the final phase, at which point we can then burn down the 2nd adds remaining HP with a much weaker debuff on us + a damage buff from the 3rd aura.
    - We don't want to take 3 tempests, we want two so we don't have to deal with the combination.
    - I believe he's only casting the AoE under you in p2 because we have the p1 add alive for 20 seconds into P2 (fire orb spawns floor aoe)
    Last edited by T18Z; 2015-08-24 at 08:19 AM.

  4. #4
    Deleted
    It's not the boss that casts aoe under you, it's the add from phase 1. Make sure you don't face him towards the raid, but I'm sure you know it already. Hitboxes on this fight are really awful and you're going to have problems with positioning her and you're going to make your melee go nuts sometimes. Nothing you can do about it that I know off, just kill off the add so you don't have to move around.

    I agree that pushing her before 3rd tempest/second edict combo is better if you're going to 4heal it, but if you happen to reach it just make sure you use stampede, it will make Edicts target move freely (or so I believe, our pala told us that freedom doesn't work here).

    You can treat shieldtronics as a raid cooldown on 3rd edict, you shouldn't sacrifice anyone on this one yet. Despite when you use them, they are really good on this fight.

    Remember that gavel of the tyrant leaves a dot on raid so it is good to also have an output healing cooldown there. In p3 you're affected with an aura that will increase your damage done, that makes Vampiric Embrace and Nature Vigils do wonders, shaman's mastery and cooldowns are also very powerful on this fight. wish we had one in our guild.

  5. #5
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    We did:
    Burn boss while cleaving add, goal was to go into P2 before 3rd Tempest.
    Boss hits 70% and add is at about 40-50%.
    We then nuke the add down so that Boss is roughly at 63% when it dies.
    Boss goes to 60% when the Edict happens, at this point wait if you have to for people's 3 min CDs and use Bloodlust and SINGLE-TARGET the boss.
    Depending on your DPS you should have the boss at 40% just before she casts the Edict or just after. Just suicide this guy with a Warlock gateway and combat ress only if it's a healer.
    Now aim to push the boss to 30%(add spawn) just as she casts her first knockback and use every defensive Raid CD to survive.
    After that, deal with the add(full single-target, rings/cds), make your Warlocks place portals for edicts and it's GG.
    When does your second add die?

  6. #6
    First add should die between 70-60%.

    Second add should die after you hit 40%(ours is like 10-20% here).

    Third add obviously has to be burned to kill boss.

    You have to get into P2 before you get Edict/Tempest combo.

    Outside of the first add/phase abilities the tanks shouldn't have a reason to randomly move. Tanks need to make sure they are slowly moving for shit. Like backpedalling(seriously) or RP walking left/right.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellospally View Post
    First add should die between 70-60%.

    Second add should die after you hit 40%(ours is like 10-20% here).

    Third add obviously has to be burned to kill boss.

    You have to get into P2 before you get Edict/Tempest combo.

    Outside of the first add/phase abilities the tanks shouldn't have a reason to randomly move. Tanks need to make sure they are slowly moving for shit. Like backpedalling(seriously) or RP walking left/right.

    Why do people keep saying this? We found it far easier to wait untill after the tempest+edict combo, for multiple reasons (some may not be valid now with gear, but nevertheless):

    1: Having the P1 add dead when we enter P2 helps on tank survivability/singletarget damage. You say "Don't hit it", but you know someone's gonna dot it up (fucking moonkins) either way.
    2: Getting edict+tempest then pushing boss means we get the first edict in P2 at around 62-61%, then get the add spawning right after while cooldowns are still lingering. If we push quicker, we'd get the edict after the add has spawned (and an edict right as we enter P2).
    3: Due to this we also got second edict in P2 at around 42-45%. This ment we could just cooldown through that edict and *not* sacrifice it, as has been suggested. Instead of this, pushing into P2 quicker means that the first edict would come pretty much right in the start of P3, which is probably the most intense part of the fight for tanks/healers to manage due to needing to move with 30% hp.

    Our fight goes like this:

    P1 - 3x tempests, kill add as we enter P2, using revival+healer ring to survive (with shields+AMZ on melee for the last edict tick); Revival popped after 2x ticks of tempest (so when everyone is moving to avoid getting knocked).
    First 2 tempests and first edicts are easily handled with nothing, although we usually AM the first edict, and healing tide the second tempest due to when we need them later on.

    We then enter P2 with nothing alive. We get the third edict of the fight at ~62% (or if we're running with good dps, right after the add has spawned. Very important to not overlap the 2 events as getting knocked while edict is pulsing = bad). As this is extremely early in P2 (usually before the fonts even go out), we don't need any CDS (but use 1 of our 2x AMZ on the last tick anyway, because it'll be back up with a 2 min CD for the next time its needed).

    Fast forward a minute, the boss is at around 43% health and we get our fourth edict. This is the "rough" part of the fight. We blow a ton of cds here to keep people alive:
    Barrier.
    SLT.
    Rally.
    Smoke bomb.
    AMZ for last tick.


    We survive that, and boss gets pushed into P3. We then proceed to kill off the P2 add, and start burning the boss while making our way to our designated portal-position for edict. When the first edict comes, the guy jumps through the portal and dies. No cds used.
    At this point the boss will do it's first gavel and hit 30% at roughly the same time, which means double knockbacks - we use any remaining cooldowns (second SLT, Devotion aura, healing tide etc) to survive this, and just stand the fuck still till the bulwark is cast again to let healers catch up.

    At this point the fight is pretty much over - tanks will be your biggest source of wipes if you can get here, and all you can do is burn the add ASAP so the tanks take far less damage. When we get the second edict in P3, we have moved to the other end of the portal we used for the first edict, and the guy uses the portal to go back to our starting position and die; Again, no cds needed. Any further Gavels for knockbacks can just be done with whatever CDs are up (it probably won't kill due to having +70% health back for the second).


    A general tip for tanks; The legendary ring on-use breaks the P2 debuff while it's up and running. We use it right as we enter P3, so that tanks can sit on 100% hp up untill the first edict comes, giving the healers a bit of a break while dealing with healing people from moving/bulwark damage.

  8. #8
    We basically cleave off the add. Nobody really focuses the add until sub 40%. You lose too much boss DPS, especially in P2.

  9. #9
    Deleted
    If tanks use ring at pull, at start of P2, would ring be up again at start of P3 or should we save it?

    Saving it for P3 sounds very good and not much is gained from P2 outside some damage gain since survivability is not an issue then.

    Edit according to logs: Seems that its off by a matter of seconds. If we use rings on pull, and then as soon as they are back up they are back up for just a few seconds into P3. Should be viable maybe?
    Last edited by mmoc05772f8627; 2015-08-24 at 01:22 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by warchief606 View Post
    When does your second add die?
    It just dies sometime between 40 and 30% of boss health, it's usually fairly low as our comp was pretty heavy on passive cleave. The add is not that big of a deal other than that it gets interrupted always. You will have to stop DPS anyway on boss to get both knockbacks at once.

  11. #11
    We chose to 5 heal and planned around getting that tempest + edict combo. We also wanted to have the add dead, or at least at ~10%, before we pushed 70%. We then finished it off and DPS'd the boss to 60%. Right when we got knocked back, we'd run back in and hero + use every single DPS CD. We were able to use 3m and 2m on the pull, but held stampede and other, longer CDs. While this means that they'll only get one use, pushing p2 with ~35% on the debuff while 5 healing makes the fight a lot easier.

    Using this strategy, we were able to down this boss in 46 pulls. She was even easier for us than Zakuun, but that had a lot more to do with us being terrible at Zakuun than great at Velhari. The only other tip I have for this boss is to hold the DPS ring after the heroism, and use it when the add in P3 is at about 20%. The dps boost will finish it off, and then the ring explosion will hit just Velhari, so you don't waste ~45% of the explosion. In our experience, if that add dies and the last edict ports out, the fight is over.

    We also ran double disc just to clarity spam the tanks to give them a buffer from her insane melees. We didn't need 5 healers for throughput. We wanted them for easing the burden on tanks, especially since we had a DK (which seems to be rough on that fight.) I played the "2nd disc" and only did ~70k HPS, and I still felt I was more useful than I would have been as a throughput healer or as another DPS.

  12. #12
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    It just dies sometime between 40 and 30% of boss health, it's usually fairly low as our comp was pretty heavy on passive cleave. The add is not that big of a deal other than that it gets interrupted always. You will have to stop DPS anyway on boss to get both knockbacks at once.
    Thats what we do at the moment. Start of P3 nuke the add and then stop dps on the boss on like 34%, so that we dont get 2 kicks at the same time. Still dying on the first gavel from the boss usually since most of our cooldowns are used for edict 4. Will try to sacrifice that one as well next time to save those CDs.
    Thanks for the help.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiah View Post
    We chose to 5 heal and planned around getting that tempest + edict combo. We also wanted to have the add dead, or at least at ~10%, before we pushed 70%. We then finished it off and DPS'd the boss to 60%. Right when we got knocked back, we'd run back in and hero + use every single DPS CD. We were able to use 3m and 2m on the pull, but held stampede and other, longer CDs. While this means that they'll only get one use, pushing p2 with ~35% on the debuff while 5 healing makes the fight a lot easier.

    Using this strategy, we were able to down this boss in 46 pulls. She was even easier for us than Zakuun, but that had a lot more to do with us being terrible at Zakuun than great at Velhari. The only other tip I have for this boss is to hold the DPS ring after the heroism, and use it when the add in P3 is at about 20%. The dps boost will finish it off, and then the ring explosion will hit just Velhari, so you don't waste ~45% of the explosion. In our experience, if that add dies and the last edict ports out, the fight is over.

    We also ran double disc just to clarity spam the tanks to give them a buffer from her insane melees. We didn't need 5 healers for throughput. We wanted them for easing the burden on tanks, especially since we had a DK (which seems to be rough on that fight.) I played the "2nd disc" and only did ~70k HPS, and I still felt I was more useful than I would have been as a throughput healer or as another DPS.
    4 and 5 healing are both viable tactics. Can tell you that we 4 healed and this is how our healing looked:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...2&type=healing - our disc not much higher than you, with a DK tank .

    I'd advice against holding the ring. As-is, you can use in pull, when you bloodlust at 3 minutes in (so holding for 1 min), and then again to burn down the add in P3 which is the "dangerous" part of P3. You'd use 2x uses in (pull, 2 min, 4 min) and then none in P3 / right at the end of P3 with your usage? or am I completly misunderstanding and you're actually advicing to make sure the ring is up for the add in P3 :P?

  14. #14
    Don't bother looking at healing numbers at Velhari unless you know what you're looking at. I as a disc priest do more healing during p2 and p3 than any other healers but in meters it shows me being 50k hps behind the others.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    4 and 5 healing are both viable tactics. Can tell you that we 4 healed and this is how our healing looked:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...2&type=healing - our disc not much higher than you, with a DK tank .

    I'd advice against holding the ring. As-is, you can use in pull, when you bloodlust at 3 minutes in (so holding for 1 min), and then again to burn down the add in P3 which is the "dangerous" part of P3. You'd use 2x uses in (pull, 2 min, 4 min) and then none in P3 / right at the end of P3 with your usage? or am I completly misunderstanding and you're actually advicing to make sure the ring is up for the add in P3 :P?
    Our timings are identical, except that I emphasized having the explosion from the ring hit just Velhari, so a portion of it is not wasted hitting her while the add is still up and shielding her. It's not significant. We got about 1.6 mil more damage out of the ring in p3 because of it. We used the actual damage boost, which is the more significant portion by far, to finish off the add.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiah View Post
    Our timings are identical, except that I emphasized having the explosion from the ring hit just Velhari, so a portion of it is not wasted hitting her while the add is still up and shielding her. It's not significant. We got about 1.6 mil more damage out of the ring in p3 because of it. We used the actual damage boost, which is the more significant portion by far, to finish off the add.
    That log is of our first kill, we just lust on the add now and it melts in no time, plus, getting the ring to just hit velhari after the add dies is relatively pointless, since the fight is basically a guaranteed kill after the sovereign dies even with only half the raid alive.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyuben View Post
    If tanks use ring at pull, at start of P2, would ring be up again at start of P3 or should we save it?

    Saving it for P3 sounds very good and not much is gained from P2 outside some damage gain since survivability is not an issue then.

    Edit according to logs: Seems that its off by a matter of seconds. If we use rings on pull, and then as soon as they are back up they are back up for just a few seconds into P3. Should be viable maybe?
    Imo save your last ring for Boss/Add in p3. Part where both tanks are actually in danger since you still have like no HP and raid is moving every like 6 sec or w/e. Idk at least thats how we use it. We just use a small external on the tank before the add spawns.

  18. #18
    What Aura of Contempt maximum health reduction percentage should we be phasing her into P3? We're dropping as low as 75% maximum health reduction (25% maximum health) which feels too low, basically killing players before healers can react.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by spikeh View Post
    What Aura of Contempt maximum health reduction percentage should we be phasing her into P3? We're dropping as low as 75% maximum health reduction (25% maximum health) which feels too low, basically killing players before healers can react.
    Got logs? Realistically, between 25 and 35% will be what you enter with. Roughest part of the fight really.

  20. #20
    Tell mage to go frost. Dps p1 add to sub 30% in p1 and leave it for the warrior to cleave with execute for p2 dps. It is also marginally better for locks to be demonology for p2 single target dps. Lust is usually used at exactly the point where 3mins come off cd (those are used on pull) + ring is saved for this. Last ring is best used for p3 add when say, 2mins come off cd.

    To many random casualties from failing fonts.

    How to do font:
    If boss has just cast the tainted shadows + your debuff has 5-6 seconds on expiration time, do the following:

    1)after boss casts her explosion, move out so none is around you (behind raid is good place if u are ranged)
    3)after ur debuff expires move into the non-debuffed group
    Main issue is that sometimes boss can cast tainted shadows just as the debuff is about to fall off so, if it so happens that it has just fallen off as her cast goes off, you die.

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