Iran deal

[ringpriest]

We shouldn't. Saudi Arabia is more valuabe to us. More oil and more influence over oil markets. There are more Sunni's in the world. And most islamic terrorists are Sunnis, so our problem is their problem.

The Saudis are vastly more valuable than the Iranians to American interests. Vastly more valuable than Israel too.

You are confusing "American interests" with "interests of America's ruling class" - from the Washington Post:

The royal family of Saudi Arabia gave the Clinton facility in Little Rock about $10 million, roughly the same amount it gave toward the presidential library of George H.W. Bush, according to people directly familiar with the contributions.

The reality is that the Saudi dictatorship is a threat to everything America claims to value, from human rights, freedom and democracy, to peace and national security.

"Sweden’s feminist foreign minister has dared to tell the truth about Saudi Arabia. "

A few weeks ago Margot Wallström, the Swedish foreign minister, denounced the subjugation of women in Saudi Arabia. As the theocratic kingdom prevents women from travelling, conducting official business or marrying without the permission of male guardians, and as girls can be forced into child marriages where they are effectively raped by old men, she was telling no more than the truth. Wallström went on to condemn the Saudi courts for ordering that Raif Badawi receive ten years in prison and 1,000 lashes for setting up a website that championed secularism and free speech. These were ‘mediaeval methods’, she said, and a ‘cruel attempt to silence modern forms of expression’. And once again, who can argue with that?

Or take at look at the US State Department's assement of America's "ally" Saudi Arabia:

Saudi Arabia is a destination country for men and women subjected to forced labor and, to a lesser extent, forced prostitution. Men and women from countries in South Central Asia, the Middle East, and Africa, such as Bangladesh, India, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Pakistan, the Philippines, Indonesia, Sudan, Ethiopia, Kenya, Burma, and Yemen, as well as many other countries voluntarily travel to Saudi Arabia as domestic workers or low-skilled laborers; many subsequently face involuntary servitude, experiencing nonpayment of wages, withholding of passports, confinement to the workplace, long working hours without rest, deprivation of food, threats, physical and sexual abuse, and restrictions on movement. Sending-country embassies and consulates indicate that non-payment of wages is the most widespread complaint from foreign workers in Saudi Arabia

And that's without touching on the fact that the global spread of terrorist Islam can be laid at the feet of the Saudi Government, "Saudi Arabia funding fuels jihadist terror"

The ultimate responsibility for recent atrocities like the Boston Marathon bombing and the butchering last week of an off-duty British soldier is very clear.

It belongs to Saudi Arabia.

Over more than two decades, Saudi Arabia has lavished around $100 billion or more on the worldwide promotion of the violent, intolerant and crudely puritanical Wahhabist sect of Islam that the ruling royal family espouses.

The links of the Boston bombers and the London butchers to organizations following the Saudi royal family’s religious line are clear.

The Saudi hereditary dictatorship is in close completion with the North Korean hereditary dictatorship for the worst regime on planet Earth.

[breadisfunny]

We shouldn't. Saudi Arabia is more valuabe to us. More oil and more influence over oil markets. There are more Sunni's in the world. And most islamic terrorists are Sunnis, so our problem is their problem.

The Saudis are vastly more valuable than the Iranians to American interests. Vastly more valuable than Israel too.

oil is eventually going to run out. and the world is shifting towards alternative sources of energy already. oil is on the way out skroe sorry to say. strengthening relations with saudi arabia is not a good idea in terms of energy.

[Skroe]

oil is eventually going to run out. and the world is shifting towards alternative sources of energy already. oil is on the way out skroe sorry to say. strengthening relations with saudi arabia is not a good idea in terms of energy.

OIl is going to eventually run out. One day.

That's not today.

That's not tomorrow.
It's not next year either.

On the day the world transitions away from oil, I will be the first in line to applause. And on that day we should drop the Saudis like a bad habit. But until that day arrives, they're better our ally in the Arab world, than someone elses, say China.

[DarkArchon]

They will develop nuclear weapons at some point no matter what we do. The best way to go about things is to have good diplomatic relations with them so that we won't be on their hitlist. Also Israel has its own nuclear weapons and can take care of itself.

I guess you have been under a rock for the last 60 years and haven't seen the ''Death to America'' chants every time their president does a speech and that Iran views America as the 'Great Satan' that must be destroyed or that Iran has been a enemy of America for a very long time and also the lead terrorist state in the world. This deal did nothing but speed their goal to the bomb and they will not abide to the United States and hold their end. It was a historical day for all the wrong reasons, and it's history repeating itself. Your a fool if you think Iran or ISIS won't use those weapons on America and even a greater fool if you think they couldn't smuggle bombs in 10 states tomorrow, the current state of boarder security is a joke.

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Israel does not believe that Iran should exist, so who gives a crap? Make peace, don't make a situation fucking worse.

Wrong way around buddy...Iran has wanted them wiped off the map for decades and America as well.

[Skroe]

I guess you have been under a rock for the last 60 years and haven't seen the ''Death to America'' chants every time their president does a speech and that Iran views America as the 'Great Satan' that must be destroyed or that Iran has been a enemy of America for a very long time and also the lead terrorist state in the world.

Yeah who cares. Talk is cheap. The most dangerous country in the world for the US isn't the one that says "Death to American". It's the big 1.2 billion person one that says "we love American money, do business with us".

This deal did nothing but speed their goal to the bomb and they will not abide to the United States and hold their end.

Let's be real. They could build an arsenal of 100 nukes and it still wouldn't protect them when we got down to it. A nuclear weapon without advanced ballistic missile technology is mostly worthless. And you know what? Outside of Western stuff and the most modern Russian stuff, most ballistic missile technology in the world is absolute garbage, and twenty years of it "getting better for poorer countries" has yet to actually happen.

And it's not for lack of trying either. Indian and Brazil for example, have dumped billions into rocket/missile dual use technology and cant get solid rocket motors to come anywhere close to US/Russian levels of sophistication. China has about 300 nuclear weapons, but only about 50 of them are on modern platforms and are actually dangerous.

Iran could start to develop missile technology today, and likely the'd never have anything threatening. And range doesn't mean a heck of a lot either. A long range Iranian missile is just a long range easy target for western ABM systems.

It was a historical day for all the wrong reasons, and it's history repeating itself. Your a fool if you think Iran or ISIS won't use those weapons on America and even a greater fool if you think they couldn't smuggle bombs in 10 states tomorrow, the boarder security is a joke.

Oh wow where to start. First, Iran and ISIS are on opposite sides ideologically in every way, the former being Shiite and the latter being Sunni. In fact, Iran has spent much of the past three years spending tremendous manpower and money fighting ISIS and propping up Bashar el-Assad in Syria. And more recently Iranian militias have been in Iraq, fighting ISIS on behalf of the Iraqi government.

Secondly, our ports have been fited with radiological detectors since shortly after 9/11.

Thirdly Iran if it got a nuclear weapon, would never use it. Ever. Know why? Let's say it did something stupid, like smuggled a nuke and blew up Miami. Or maybe got a boat near and blew up a carrier in the Gulf. You know what the response would be? The end of Iranian history. That's what. There is no world where Iran has strategic parity with the US. We can likely beat a Russia armed with 1700 warheads in a first strike scenario. A US second strike on Iran would be countervalue and Iran would be disproportionate. Or put another way, a country with a dozen primitive nuclear weapons can't beat a country with thousands.

Thirdly, there have been zero incidents of terrorists sneaking into America via Mexico. None. Want to secure a border to fight terrorism? The one you need to worry about is the Canadian one, but even that is only a handful of cases.

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Wrong way around buddy...Iran has wanted them wiped off the map for decades and America as well.

Again, big deal.

[GG you got me]

Probably the biggest nuclear misstep since Clinton decided to let the Chinese walk in and out of Los Alamos with nuclear secrets... repeatedly. Wouldn't expect much better though.

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They will develop nuclear weapons at some point no matter what we do. The best way to go about things is to have good diplomatic relations with them so that we won't be on their hitlist. Also Israel has its own nuclear weapons and can take care of itself.

You know the Cold War only worked out as it did because at the end of the day, neither Russia nor the United States thought God or Allah was compelling them to sacrifice themselves for a holy cause.

And the thought that "avoiding Iran's hitlist" is even a thing, when any nuclear attack of any origin on Israel is going to start a third world war. It's like you are completely oblivious to the notion that no one is as worried about Iran nuking a country as they are worried about weaponized materials leaking out of the country and into the hands of people that don't view diplomacy on quite the same terms that you do.

You people are something else lmao

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Let's be real. They could build an arsenal of 100 nukes and it still wouldn't protect them when we got down to it. A nuclear weapon without advanced ballistic missile technology is mostly worthless.

It's worthless in the application that the US or Russia maintains their nukes for. It's not going to take an advanced missile system to get a nuclear weapon from Tehran to Jerusalem by any means necessary, in such a hypothetical scenario. I realize this is the generation that votes for good feels... and possibly a free cell phone, and thinks a $6000 deductible qualifies as health insurance, but damn do you people really think the universe fits in such a neat and tidy box lol

[Wells]

You know the Cold War only worked out as it did because at the end of the day, neither Russia nor the United States thought God or Allah was compelling them to sacrifice themselves for a holy cause.

Iran is not a death cult. They're rational actors. Sure they wrap themselves up in rhetoric, but so does everyone else.

[DarkArchon]

It would literally take me an solid hour and a good page to cover your misinformed, mainly false information and grasp of reality. I will how ever cover a couple of them....You mentioned how they don't have the sophistication of Russia..Maybe your unaware that Russia has been supplying Iran for decades and don't think for a second that Russia wouldn't provide the tools necessary to make that happen for Iran. The second cover is how your under this belief that Iran and ISIS or enemies and opposite sides of ideologically...Iran is lead terrorist state in the world + ISIS is terrorists = ? The Iran Guard has given them free reign for quite sometime and even withdraw their forces without a fight every time ISIS claims a city. They share the exact same goals and views, death to America, death to Israel and control of the Middle East.

[GG you got me]

Iran is not a death cult. They're rational actors. Sure they wrap themselves up in rhetoric, but so does everyone else.

See: "And the thought that "avoiding Iran's hitlist" is even a thing, when any nuclear attack of any origin on Israel is going to start a third world war. It's like you are completely oblivious to the notion that no one is as worried about Iran nuking a country as they are worried about weaponized materials leaking out of the country and into the hands of people that don't view diplomacy on quite the same terms that you do."

I mean I realize reading an entire post is just like... a herculean task, but still.

[Wells]

See: "And the thought that "avoiding Iran's hitlist" is even a thing, when any nuclear attack of any origin on Israel is going to start a third world war. It's like you are completely oblivious to the notion that no one is as worried about Iran nuking a country as they are worried about weaponized materials leaking out of the country and into the hands of people that don't view diplomacy on quite the same terms that you do."

I mean I realize reading an entire post is just like... a herculean task, but still.

I have no idea what windmill you're tilting at.

[GG you got me]

I have no idea what windmill you're tilting at.

I can't imagine that to be true in any possible context, but ok

[Deleted]

Hey, Iranian here,

situation of Iran has much changed, although the whole republic was supported by only 34% of the people from the start, right now the number is down to only 22%. that means no one supports the government except its own employees and its own cabin.

we never want to kill/wipe any people. to be honest we rather kill the mullahs than have our country/people in ruins, which we actually did back then at 2012. so why we cant change the government? people got scared of the amount of torture/rape/killing the government did so sociologicement there's refreshing cooldown to get its guts back.

therefore, having a little help from west about the dealings with Iran will either make the ruling dictatorship change its ideas or help us refresh up and change them. either way they are too powerful and scary to go against with, its not Al'qaede its not bin ladin, its the whole factory that gave them weapons/ideas/policies that we are dealing with.

[Skroe]

It's worthless in the application that the US or Russia maintains their nukes for. It's not going to take an advanced missile system to get a nuclear weapon from Tehran to Jerusalem by any means necessary, in such a hypothetical scenario. I realize this is the generation that votes for good feels... and possibly a free cell phone, and thinks a $6000 deductible qualifies as health insurance, but damn do you people really think the universe fits in such a neat and tidy box lol

Okay. They smuggle a nuclear weapon into Jerusalem... and then what?

First of all, it's not our country, and Israel has been a pretty garbage ally the past fifteen years - the whole "they'll do what whatever they want and expect us to shield them" bit is pretty stale.

Second of all Israel has it's own nuclear weapons it can retaliate with.

Thirdly, whether we or Israel retaliates... you really think the Iranians would destroy themselves just to nuke Jerusalem... or anything for that matter? There so vulnerable compared to the countries they would theoretically strike, it would be worse than suicide.

[GG you got me]

Hey, Iranian here,

situation of Iran has much changed, although the whole republic was supported by only 34% of the people from the start, right now the number is down to only 22%. that means no one supports the government except its own employees and its own cabin.

we never want to kill/wipe any people. to be honest we rather kill the mullahs than have our country/people see in ruins, which we actually did back then at 2012. so why we cant change the government? people got scared of the amount of torture/rape/killing the government did so sociologicement there's refreshing cooldown to get its guts back.

therefore, having a little help from west about the dealings with Iran will either make the ruling dictatorship change its ideas or help us refresh up and change them. either way they are too powerful and scary to go against with, its not Al'qaede its not bin ladin, its the whole factory that gave them weapons/ideas/policies that we are dealing with.

I hope you realize that pragmatically speaking, the number one problem stemming from a nuclear Iran isn't what the large percentage of reasonable people in the country are going to do with it. Your borders leak like a sieve and you're geographically too close to Israel for the number of variables that manifest when you combine those factors.

The world is not unaware that the average Iranian is not some caricature of a middle-eastern terrorist, it's just that unfortunately for you it also doesn't matter. Hopefully that casts a different light on the topic for you, in the interest of mutual understanding of both sides.

[Skroe]

See: "And the thought that "avoiding Iran's hitlist" is even a thing, when any nuclear attack of any origin on Israel is going to start a third world war. It's like you are completely oblivious to the notion that no one is as worried about Iran nuking a country as they are worried about weaponized materials leaking out of the country and into the hands of people that don't view diplomacy on quite the same terms that you do."

I mean I realize reading an entire post is just like... a herculean task, but still.

One country nuking another is not automatically a third world war.

If Iran used a nuclear weapon and the US or Israel retaliated nuclearly.... it would probably end there. The rest of the world would just get the hell out of the way and keep their heads down.

No one is going to die for nuclear armed mullahs of someone elses country.

[GG you got me]

Okay. They smuggle a nuclear weapon into Jerusalem... and then what?

First of all, it's not our country, and Israel has been a pretty garbage ally the past fifteen years - the whole "they'll do what whatever they want and expect us to shield them" bit is pretty stale.

Second of all Israel has it's own nuclear weapons it can retaliate with.

Thirdly, whether we or Israel retaliates... you really think the Iranians would destroy themselves just to nuke Jerusalem... or anything for that matter? There so vulnerable compared to the countries they would theoretically strike, it would be worse than suicide.

So what you think happens in this scenario is Israel gets nuked but I mean really who cares b/c I mean come on Israel right guys?!?!!?!?!?! lmao got us good. But then Israel nukes an Islamic nation in retliation. And then all sides just go home and no one has any further opinions on the matter.

Wow, where the fuck were you when the Cuban Missile Crisis seemed so risky? You could have hammered that shit out before lunch at Camp David.

edit: You should stream yourself playing tic-tac-toe against that supercomputer from War Games. You're the goddamn Gary Kasparov of nuclear war

[DarkArchon]

Okay. They smuggle a nuclear weapon into Jerusalem... and then what?

First of all, it's not our country, and Israel has been a pretty garbage ally the past fifteen years - the whole "they'll do what whatever they want and expect us to shield them" bit is pretty stale.

Second of all Israel has it's own nuclear weapons it can retaliate with.

Thirdly, whether we or Israel retaliates... you really think the Iranians would destroy themselves just to nuke Jerusalem... or anything for that matter? There so vulnerable compared to the countries they would theoretically strike, it would be worse than suicide.

So much fucking facepalm, don't even waste time replying to my last message. I don't even know how a human can get so far up a tree and oblivious.

[GG you got me]

So much fucking facepalm, don't even waste time replying to my last message. I don't even know how a human can get so far up a tree and oblivious.

give him a break. he's currently googling Cuban Missile Crisis & Gary Kasparov

[Skroe]

It would literally take me an solid hour and a good page to cover your misinformed, mainly false information and grasp of reality. I will how ever cover a couple of them....You mentioned how they don't have the sophistication of Russia..Maybe your unaware that Russia has been supplying Iran for decades and don't think for a second that Russia wouldn't provide the tools necessary to make that happen for Iran.

Iran is being supplied with defensive anti-air missiles. They are not being supplied with ballistic missile technology or the means to manufacture it.

The second cover is how your under this belief that Iran and ISIS or enemies and opposite sides of ideologically...Iran is lead terrorist state in the world + ISIS is terrorists = ? The Iran Guard has given them free reign for quite sometime and even withdraw their forces without a fight every time ISIS claims a city. They share the exact same goals and views, death to America, death to Israel and control of the Middle East.

This is just... wow. Actually read about the issues, okay? You do realize that terrorists... radicals... revolutionaries.... extremists.... its entirely common they spend their time killing not just their "main enemy" but their ideological competitor, which ISIS is to Iran specifically

Or let me put it this way. Iran claims it is the "Islamic Republic". It is Shiite. It is, from their view, the only legitimate modern Islamic state as Shiite Islam is the correct interpretation. ISIS on the other hand, claims much the same thing, except as a Sunni state, the Shiite Islamic Reuplic is by definition an nation of apostates. In a very interesting way actually, they're entirely polar opposites.

Claiming some kind of "terrorist+terrorist" relationship is fanciful to say the least. Both ISIS and Iran spend immense amount of time propagandizing their legitimacy... legitimacy they can't share, least of all with each other.

[DarkArchon]

Iran is being supplied with defensive anti-air missiles. They are not being supplied with ballistic missile technology or the means to manufacture it.






This is just... wow. Actually read about the issues, okay? You do realize that terrorists... radicals... revolutionaries.... extremists.... its entirely common they spend their time killing not just their "main enemy" but their ideological competitor, which ISIS is to Iran specifically

Or let me put it this way. Iran claims it is the "Islamic Republic". It is Shiite. It is, from their view, the only legitimate modern Islamic state as Shiite Islam is the correct interpretation. ISIS on the other hand, claims much the same thing, except as a Sunni state, the Shiite Islamic Reuplic is by definition an nation of apostates. In a very interesting way actually, they're entirely polar opposites.

Claiming some kind of "terrorist+terrorist" relationship is fanciful to say the least. Both ISIS and Iran spend immense amount of time propagandizing their legitimacy... legitimacy they can't share, least of all with each other.

GG got you me, you can take it from here bud.. I can't type well with one hand always on my forehead. I honestly don't even know where i'd even start. Night folks.