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  1. #21
    2/2 is worse than 4pc T18 on the majority of encounters that don't feature strong healing required on singular targets, basically only limited to 2 encounters this tier where it's not a waste of time to fully channel a 4 tick def Penance. If you can't fully channel 3 ticks consistently without overhealing, why would you suddenly do more effective healing with an extra second to channel?

    4pc not only reduces the probability of overhealing with Penance caused by 2pc T18, but increases your overall output as well. The 4pc bonus targets those with the least % of health, so it's always going to go to someone who needs healing at some point, even if it's not necessarily now, and thus isn't the situation you described where the proc doesn't go to someone who needs it.

    In any case, there's just no good reason to run 2/2 with the throughput and base stat loss.
    That's simply not true at all. Look at logs of priests running 4P. Not only is the 4P heal mostly shit (there are a few niche fights where it doesn't always suck), it goes on the wrong people 50% of the time. I was actually just looking at socrethar logs of a priest I know that runs 4P and his 4P did 43% of the healing as his penance during gift of the man'ari phase. The best part about that 43% is that only 60% of that went to people who were in any risk of dying (the gift targets). That's a 25% increase on one fight to useful people. Which was 2% of his total healing for that phase. Are you really trying to tell me a 2% increase (from 80k to 81.6k hps) whereas 2P t17 is 6 GCDs to cast shields per minute (80k to 88.5k hps). There's a clear winner here and it's not the 4P.

    And a few things you got horribly wrong. You don't use t17 2p for the extra channel you use it for the stack. You can channel it for 1 tick 2 ticks or 3 ticks, hell even 4 ticks if you really wanted to but you can stop it at any time it'd overheal and stopping it at 3 ticks is no different than casting a normal penance. And because heroic tier is only 710, it is certainly worth it to skip tier till mythic 725/730 mythic gear. 1.25 lower average ilvl won't have a lasting impact on your throughput that extra GCDs can't make up for.

    How the hell do you figure 4p makes your 2p overheal less. They're completely independent, if you're 2P is going to overheal then why are you casting it to begin with. If it's ticked twice you can stop casting and get a shield out, if it ticked once then ya I could see your point but you'd still stop after 2 ticks. So you have a 50% chance to generate another penance heal that could also very well be useless.

    Do you not understand that healing someone with the extra penance who can be healed to full by passive hots, healing AoEs is useless in 9 out of 10 scenarios? If you're on socrethar and the penance doesn't tick to a person with gift then it was 100% useless because no one is at any risk of dying besides those 4 people. If someone was at the risk of dying, they'd probably end up dying fairly quickly and leaving it up to RNG to heal them is absurd. Same for kilrogg, your heal jumps to someone got low from death throes but because you shielded one of the people with heartseeker they don't get the penance jump. Aside from the end of kilrogg, no one is going to die to death throes aoe so that heal was useless. The same can be said for atonement heals. Yes mathematically they seem fine but at the same time you could very well heal someone who doesn't need it. Looking at socrethar the only reason people with gift got healed by atonement or penance jumps was cause literally no one else was taking damage. Any time AoE went out or a monk/dk tank dip below the threshold (they're at 50% while people with gift are at 60%) the heal is wasted. Sure a 100% heal is better than nothing but I'd rather have a GCD than that heal.

    As it stands, I plan on using 2P T18 + 3 mythic offpieces for more than 60% of the fights in HFC. The only time I'll run 4pc is for gorefiend, HHC, Tyrant, Fel Lord and it will be 100% to parse at that point. Parsing highly doesn't mean you did what's best for your guild.

    If you don't believe that this is better throughput (ignoring talent choices and play) take a look at malicrine a disc priest on US-KJ. He's consistently parsing top on his progression kills and he runs 2P/2P.

    4P heal is a useless padding heal that is unnecessary for progression.


    But I don't know why this thread has turned into this so I'll just end this here because this is not the right thread for this kind of discussion
    Last edited by Kalarae; 2015-07-25 at 10:04 AM.

  2. #22
    I don't know what happened here, but I'm glad the Smite topic came up because it made me look at what I did yesterday and I found that I'd borked the numbers. Fixing them up put am extra stack of Evangelism at 37460 more healing than the difference between Smite and PW:S, for 74920 by getting the two extra stacks, which definitely seems worth getting. That was looking at T18 2pc + 4pc by the way, which is probably why the numbers are larger. (Sorry also for the late chime-in ).
    Last edited by Myllior; 2015-07-25 at 10:20 AM.
    Oh yeah, look at it go! Roll out the barrel; feel it in your bones!
    6.2 Healing Priest Spreadsheets; Legion Holy Priest Rotation Calculator (WiP)

  3. #23
    Ya I think the 3 stacks of evangelism was just a mindset from HM where our gear wasn't that great so we didn't get amazing benefit out of 5 stacks of AA aside from higher burst.

  4. #24
    Disc is about getting your mana on the raid. Spec into solace. Put solace on number 1, pen on number 2, archangel on 3, cascade 4, prayer of healing 5... solace and penance the boss on cd.. then 3-5.. you'll parse above 70% just doing this.. don't worry about timers until mythic. Just doing the above will get u to mythic.. BTW pws as many as u can while not doing the above.. don't pen the boss wen someone's dying below 30 percent.. the rest pen the boss.. the idea is 50-60 uptime on aa.. 50-70 percent pws.. pen poh cascade the rest. Don't pom. Set up foghorn sound wen aa is off cd it is most important spell.. but you have to hit 1-3 as if it was a rotation.. 1-5 is greater than pws..once you get aa uptime above 50%. The rest is reading timers

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalarae View Post
    Do you not understand that healing someone with the extra penance who can be healed to full by passive hots, healing AoEs is useless in 9 out of 10 scenarios? If you're on socrethar and the penance doesn't tick to a person with gift then it was 100% useless because no one is at any risk of dying besides those 4 people. If someone was at the risk of dying, they'd probably end up dying fairly quickly and leaving it up to RNG to heal them is absurd. Same for kilrogg, your heal jumps to someone got low from death throes but because you shielded one of the people with heartseeker they don't get the penance jump. Aside from the end of kilrogg, no one is going to die to death throes aoe so that heal was useless. The same can be said for atonement heals. Yes mathematically they seem fine but at the same time you could very well heal someone who doesn't need it. Looking at socrethar the only reason people with gift got healed by atonement or penance jumps was cause literally no one else was taking damage. Any time AoE went out or a monk/dk tank dip below the threshold (they're at 50% while people with gift are at 60%) the heal is wasted. Sure a 100% heal is better than nothing but I'd rather have a GCD than that heal.
    The 4-piece that has a good chance of healing a low health target isn't beneficial to the raid, yet the extra tick of Penance does? If you're not frequently using the T17 2-piece bonus for its extra tick, then what life saving benefits does that have for your raid?

    If you don't clip your 4th tick of Penance, then you decide whether you want to trade 2 GCDs for a more focused Penance heal (33% boost to Penance's overall healing) or whether you would be willing to trade 3 GCDs for more spot healing via the extra Penance ticks (50% boost to Penance's overall healing). The overall numbers for 2+2-piece T17+T18 or 4-piece T18 actually end up pretty similar in that case.

    If you do clip the 4th tick of Penance, then the bonus 4-piece Penance ticks would only have to do ~20-25% of the original Penance's healing to compensate for the net 3 GCDs you sacrifice on Smite instead of PW:S from losing the T17 2-piece. Most of the recent logs I've seen show that the T18 bonus exceeds that threshold, so you can draw your own conclusions.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by ceddya View Post
    The 4-piece that has a good chance of healing a low health target isn't beneficial to the raid, yet the extra tick of Penance does? If you're not frequently using the T17 2-piece bonus for its extra tick, then what life saving benefits does that have for your raid?
    They're not using T17 2-piece for the extra tick, they're using it for the extra stack of evangelism it provides through defensive and offensive penance. I've used both 2p + 2p and 4p, and despite what the numbers say, I think I'm going to revert back to 2p + 2p next week. It feels frustrating to cast smites during mythic progression, and I prefer the convenience provided by T17 2-piece. In my opinion, freeing my GCDs for more shields saves more lives than a uncontrollable penance. Once I gain access to 4p mythic I might change my mind, but that won't be for a while since my guild is gearing DPS first.

  7. #27
    To add onto what tygerlily said, the heal from 4P is just not useful for mythic progression in most scenarios. I can link direct logs of socrethar, a fight that on paper should be good for it, but it actually really hindered compared to 2P + 2P. The entire 4P heal was a ~4% heal increase in gift phase and only 2% onto the people with gift (with DA from penance 2.25%). I think 4P is an example of something thats good on paper but bad in practice.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Tygerlily177 View Post
    They're not using T17 2-piece for the extra tick, they're using it for the extra stack of evangelism it provides through defensive and offensive penance. I've used both 2p + 2p and 4p, and despite what the numbers say, I think I'm going to revert back to 2p + 2p next week. It feels frustrating to cast smites during mythic progression, and I prefer the convenience provided by T17 2-piece. In my opinion, freeing my GCDs for more shields saves more lives than a uncontrollable penance. Once I gain access to 4p mythic I might change my mind, but that won't be for a while since my guild is gearing DPS first.
    Yes, and one can make the decision whether the convenience of GCDs saved on Evangelis is better than losing the extra healing from the 4-piece. If that healing does at least ~20-25% of the original Penance's value, then it's rather worth it. It's nice to have 2 more GCDs when AA is down to use PW:S, but it's also fantastic to have more spot healing when you're using your Penance. I wouldn't necessarily say one is better than the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalarae View Post
    To add onto what tygerlily said, the heal from 4P is just not useful for mythic progression in most scenarios. I can link direct logs of socrethar, a fight that on paper should be good for it, but it actually really hindered compared to 2P + 2P. The entire 4P heal was a ~4% heal increase in gift phase and only 2% onto the people with gift (with DA from penance 2.25%). I think 4P is an example of something thats good on paper but bad in practice.
    Like I said, you make the choice whether you want more focused Penances or more spot healing to it. There are fights like Kormrok, HHC, Kilrogg and Gorefiend where I would use the 4-piece because you would tend to clip the 4th tick of Penance. I've seen plenty of good logs on those fights utilizing the 4-piece, so there's no reason to not adjust based on the encounter.

  9. #29
    Good numbers doesn't equate to good healing. There is more to healing that just blanket output. On Gorefiend 4P is really strong because everyone is taking damage and no one needs heals more than anyone else. For any targeted healing, 4P drops down dramatically. And again you almost never channel a full penance with 2P/2P. Infact it's an HPS loss to channel for full cause the 4th tick takes a second after the 3rd tick to come out regardless of your haste. Using 2P has nothing to do with getting full 4 tick penance casts off. It's only about the GCDs you save. Basically, if you have mythic tier (or mythic off pieces 725+) you shouldn't be using 2P/2P because the throughput drawback is too great. But 4P with heroic gear is only 20 ilvls or 1.25 average ilvls higher which cannot make up for the 6 GCDs you save.

    Honestly, I'm convinced 4P isn't even that good on gorefiend when you compare logs like this:

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...2&type=healing 2P/2P using disc, 712 ilvl
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...3&type=healing 4P using disc, 718 ilvl

    Granted raid comp drastically impacts our healing (squishier tanks like bears and warriors can soak up more penance than DKs and Monks). Looking at feast of souls, if you remove the ring (both the shield and the 25% increase) and the leech they got from their healers, they're fairly even. With a 6 ilvl gap and the very phase where 4P should outshine anything, all I'm left to say is: I'm not impressed.


    If 4P isn't good on the very fight it should shine at and it provides useful healing 50% of the time it procs (so 25% of the time) then what is it good for?

    It's nice to have 2 more GCDs when AA is down to use PW:S
    It's not 2, It's 3. If you run 2P/2P, with the exception of clunky fights like gorefiend, you should be running mindbender not solace. This means you only holy fire twice because your penance is being used on CD. Holy fire is affected by mana reduction, Solace is not which leads to the interaction we saw last tier as 2 holy fires barely cost more than one (in fact it's less than 1.25% mana for 2 casts with the trinket).
    Last edited by Kalarae; 2015-07-25 at 11:32 PM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalarae View Post
    Good numbers doesn't equate to good healing. There is more to healing that just blanket output.
    You're right, but between saving 3 GCDs when AA is down or having better spot healing (even if it's not 100% reliable), I'm not convinced that one is better than the other, which is why I've advocated using the tier bonuses depending on the kind of healing you need your Penance to have (more focused versus spread out).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalarae View Post
    Infact it's an HPS loss to channel for full cause the 4th tick takes a second after the 3rd tick to come out regardless of your haste.
    This is false. The 4th tick is affected by Haste and provides almost as much healing as a PW:S if it doesn't overheal. At 2/3 of a GCD, the 4th tick has a much higher HPET than a PW:S cast and has the added advantage of being completely free. There's no reason to clip the 4th tick at all if it can heal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalarae View Post
    Even with fewer Penance casts, the person using the 4-piece is still getting more overall Penance healing on Tortured Essences. Good numbers don't equate to good healing, no?

    Also if you isolate it to the Feast phase, you'd find that the extra healing from the 4-piece makes up for the loss of 3 GCDs every AA cycle. The other heals (i.e. Solace usage, T90s, AA management) that affect overall numbers aren't really relevant when considering the strength of the 4-piece.
    Last edited by ceddya; 2015-07-25 at 11:40 PM.

  11. #31
    aa at 5 stacks doesn't feel mandatory.. i mean u can do 97% parses with only 3-4 stacks. 4 pcs.

  12. #32
    You're right, but between saving 3 GCDs when AA is down or having better spot healing (even if it's not 100% reliable), I'm not convinced that one is better than the other, which is why I've advocated using the tier bonuses depending on the kind of healing you need your Penance to have (more focused versus spread out).
    Healing is about being reliable. You're not increasing your spot healing with 4P if you can't reliably spot heal the right people with it. And it's not even close to 100% reliable, if on socrethar you can expect to get 50% reliability then what about on a fight with more AoE like Kilrogg, I'm sorry but you're not going to put someone's life on a 25% chance that they might see a small heal. I'd take 6 GCDs a minute to spot heal people any day of the week.

    This is false. The 4th tick is affected by Haste and provides almost as much healing as a PW:S if it doesn't overheal. At 2/3 of a GCD, the 4th tick has a much higher HPET than a PW:S cast and has the added advantage of being completely free. There's no reason to clip the 4th tick at all if it can heal.
    I was using the wrong cast time when I looked at my logs so I incorrectly assumed it took 1 second from 3-4. I thought I edited that part out cause I was pretty sure I was wrong but guess not. Either way I'd never clip a 4th tick if it was going to be effective.

    Also if you isolate it to the Feast phase, you'd find that the extra healing from the 4-piece makes up for the loss of 3 GCDs every AA cycle. The other heals (i.e. Solace usage, T90s, AA management) that affect overall numbers aren't really relevant when considering the strength of the 4-piece.
    That's actually wrong. If you read what I said about the feast phase, I said if you disregard leech from other healers (the leech trinket) and the ring from the guy who had 4p (shield itself and the effective healing increase for both rings) the numbers are fairly similiar. And then you have to look at see the guy with 4P had 6 average iLvls on the one that had 2P/2P. I'd like to see what the numbers would be if they were both even iLvl (or at least 2 ilvls behind for the cost of T17 tier). Not to mention his penance had a higher overheal (even though he clips when it's going to overheal for the 4th tick) because his raid is also healing a lot more (the dps and other healers).

    And in regards to the tortured essence, disc healing in the belly is almost pointless. I've seen countless logs of disc's using heal instead of FH. But look at both of their healing to the essence, even though his penance did more he healed them less. Is that still good healing?
    Last edited by Kalarae; 2015-07-26 at 12:43 AM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalarae View Post
    Healing is about being reliable. You're not increasing your spot healing with 4P if you can't reliably spot heal the right people with it. And it's not even close to 100% reliable, if on socrethar you can expect to get 50% reliability then what about on a fight with more AoE like Kilrogg, I'm sorry but you're not going to put someone's life on a 25% chance that they might see a small heal. I'd take 6 GCDs a minute to spot heal people any day of the week.
    You need 4 GCDs to put PW:S up on those with the debuff on Socrethar and ~>1 GCD for Penance every 10 seconds. Unless you're running with CoW, there's absolutely time to trade off a couple of GCDs without sacrificing your spot healing.

    I also don't buy the 100% reliable portion, because that basically applies to every quasi smart heal in the game. A 50% reliability is still 50% better spot healing than the alternative of shielding a random member of the raid with that free GCD when AA is down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalarae View Post
    And in regards to the tortured essence, disc healing in the belly is almost pointless. I've seen countless logs of disc's using heal instead of FH. But look at both of their healing to the essence, even though his penance did more he healed them less. Is that still good healing?
    You won't be using more than one AA while in the belly though, so the Evangelism generated from the T17 2-piece is rather inconsequential. Comparing the healing contribution from other spells is also irrelevant, because they're independent of the tier bonus set up you choose to go with. The 2+2-piece user was simply able to get more healing from FH and other sources than the 4-piece user because he played better, not because of the tier gearing he chose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalarae View Post
    That's actually wrong. If you read what I said about the feast phase, I said if you disregard leech from other healers (the leech trinket) and the ring from the guy who had 4p (shield itself and the effective healing increase for both rings) the numbers are fairly similiar.
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ase=2&source=2

    I'm just looking at the Feast phase for this log. With 11 casts of Penance, he gets ~1.6-1.7mil worth of extra Penance healing (DA values roughly calculated) + 100k healing from Atonement/Smite. That's 9 GCDs (based off his offensive Penance and Smite casts) sacrificed for that healing.

    You are right in that both have rather similar values for the Feast phase, but the 4-piece has the benefit of being more useful in healing the adds. An interesting point has been raised with regards to overhealing though, because the value of the 4-piece probably increases on fights with higher raid damage, so that's another factor to consider when deciding between which set up to go with.
    Last edited by ceddya; 2015-07-26 at 03:03 AM.

  14. #34
    You won't be using more than one AA while in the belly though, so the Evangelism generated from the T17 2-piece is rather inconsequential. Comparing the healing contribution from other spells is also irrelevant, because they're independent of the tier bonus set up you choose to go with. The 2+2-piece user was simply able to get more healing from FH and other sources than the 4-piece user because he played better, not because of the tier gearing he chose.
    What. He healed more because he played better thats true but the point I was getting is that the amount of healing you do in the stomach is inconsequential. Also, because you're getting an AA in the stomach that doesn't make generating stacks useless... When the healers come out there is generally a lot to heal and that is usually 25 seconds after you die from SoD. This means generating stacks inside is pretty important especially since most discs run Solace so by the time you're out you're at 5 stacks and can pop AA again. How is that useless?

    You need 4 GCDs to put PW:S up on those with the debuff on Socrethar and ~>1 GCD for Penance every 10 seconds. Unless you're running with CoW, there's absolutely time to trade off a couple of GCDs without sacrificing your spot healing.

    I also don't buy the 100% reliable portion, because that basically applies to every quasi smart heal in the game. A 50% reliability is still 50% better spot healing than the alternative of shielding a random member of the raid with that free GCD when AA is down.
    First of all, if you're not running CoW on socrethar then you're doing something wrong to begin with. So that extra time doesn't equate to 6 more CoWs but will end up being around 4 total which is a big chunk of healing.

    Second of all, because it's unreliable then it's not actually spot healing. If you can't rely on it you're not going to count on it for intense situations when you'd actually need to be healing that person directly. I'd take 6 FH or 3 Heals per minute over that any day of the week. Also there are 5 shields to maintain on socrethar (tank + 4 debuffs) + penance + 2/3rds of a holy fire (2 casts per 30 seconds). Basically you could expect 7 casts which is 8.54 seconds that leaves time for 1 FH or a second penance cast. With 4P you'd have to add in solace + smites which would put you over 10 seconds or just barely on the cusp. This also excludes using CoW which heavily favors 2P/2P. So yes, even when you're not running CoW you get shafted by using 4P because you've basically increased your shield CD from 10 to 11-12 seconds. That doesn't seem very useless. Not to mention even if you can maintain all of that with 4P, you're either a) not generating stacks or b) casting atonement and therefore doing very little healing to anyone important.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalarae View Post
    What. He healed more because he played better thats true but the point I was getting is that the amount of healing you do in the stomach is inconsequential. Also, because you're getting an AA in the stomach that doesn't make generating stacks useless... When the healers come out there is generally a lot to heal and that is usually 25 seconds after you die from SoD. This means generating stacks inside is pretty important especially since most discs run Solace so by the time you're out you're at 5 stacks and can pop AA again. How is that useless?
    Why would it be inconsequential when you have Disc Priests on early progression running SG just to maximize how much healing that can be done in the belly?

    If you're running Solace and using it properly, you're also in a situation whereby the benefit of the T17 can be devalued because you do not need all 3 Evangelism stacks from Penance. Like I said, the user of the log linked above sacrificed 9 GCDs for ~1.8mil healing from the 4-piece. I wouldn't say that one option is better than the other for Feasts, although you could argue that a small edge would go to the 4-piece user if Solace is used optimally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalarae View Post
    First of all, if you're not running CoW on socrethar then you're doing something wrong to begin with. So that extra time doesn't equate to 6 more CoWs but will end up being around 4 total which is a big chunk of healing.
    There have been plenty of early kills with the Disc Priests not using CoW.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...se=2&source=11

    This log shows that most of effective healing from the 4-piece goes towards those taking damage with the debuff, so it's not like there isn't any utility to the bonus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalarae View Post
    Second of all, because it's unreliable then it's not actually spot healing. If you can't rely on it you're not going to count on it for intense situations when you'd actually need to be healing that person directly.
    And realistically, how many FH or Heals are actually cast by Disc Priests per kill? How often will that GCD used on PW:S instead of a Smite be life saving? It may not be 100% reliable, but there is still utility from the spot healing provided by the 4-piece, especially if on fights with a relatively even distribution of raid damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalarae View Post
    With 4P you'd have to add in solace + smites which would put you over 10 seconds or just barely on the cusp. This also excludes using CoW which heavily favors 2P/2P.
    That's an important thing to mention though, because many are running Solace regardless of tier usage. As mentioned above, optimal usage of Solace would lend itself towards using the 4-piece bonus.

    Regarding CoW though, you are certainly not going to be cycling PW:S through 5 targets because that would leave you with no GCDs for CoW. CoW is picked if your raid would rather have the Disc focus on specific Gift targets and WoM if the raid would rather have the Disc cycle through all the Gift targets + tanks.

    Like I said, you pick the tier bonus set-up depending on what you want your Penance to do. There certainly are debuff focused fights where I would use 2+2-piece, but there are also fights with high raid damage where I would use the 4-piece. Just look at the logs on fights like HHC, Kilrogg or even Zakuun, and you'll see that the 4-piece pulls head. I just don't see how the additional Penance healing from the 4-piece is less 'significant' than casting a PW:S instead of a Smite when AA is down.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalarae View Post
    First of all, if you're not running CoW on socrethar then you're doing something wrong to begin with. So that extra time doesn't equate to 6 more CoWs but will end up being around 4 total which is a big chunk of healing.

    Second of all, because it's unreliable then it's not actually spot healing. If you can't rely on it you're not going to count on it for intense situations when you'd actually need to be healing that person directly. I'd take 6 FH or 3 Heals per minute over that any day of the week. Also there are 5 shields to maintain on socrethar (tank + 4 debuffs) + penance + 2/3rds of a holy fire (2 casts per 30 seconds). Basically you could expect 7 casts which is 8.54 seconds that leaves time for 1 FH or a second penance cast. With 4P you'd have to add in solace + smites which would put you over 10 seconds or just barely on the cusp. This also excludes using CoW which heavily favors 2P/2P. So yes, even when you're not running CoW you get shafted by using 4P because you've basically increased your shield CD from 10 to 11-12 seconds. That doesn't seem very useless. Not to mention even if you can maintain all of that with 4P, you're either a) not generating stacks or b) casting atonement and therefore doing very little healing to anyone important.
    If you are running CoW but attempting to blanket all 4 gift targets anyway, you are obviously missing out the entire point of running CoW.

    The point of running CoW is to make sure that you can maintain 2 gift targets by yourself and only yourself, instead of stretching the absorbs thin across 4 targets and making the other healers focus on 4 targets rather than 2.

    When you run CoW to blanket, you may as well be a WoM user - with less raid healing and less overall healing. You brought absolutely nothing to the table; if anything, you took from it.

    tl;dr

    CoW on Socrethar is meant to provide the other healers with convenience and ease their burden for gifts, not pretend to be a gimped version of WoM users.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

    Prediction for the future

  17. #37
    WoW I definitely was not expecting to get so many responses I read those both pages - Just so I can take pointers and learn once I actually start doing regular or heroic raids. Sadly I do not have anything to add cause the things you all are talking about I do not even have (like the 4 pc bonus).

    I have noticed though my HPS have gotten a lot better in LFR while using more shields, less smites and using a Weak aura to tell me when I have EAA proc'ed. Though I know a lot of people don't count LFR as a good meaure tool- but it still counts for me since I haven't done normal raids.

    Made by Visenna, TY<3

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Touchyfeely View Post
    WoW I definitely was not expecting to get so many responses I read those both pages - Just so I can take pointers and learn once I actually start doing regular or heroic raids. Sadly I do not have anything to add cause the things you all are talking about I do not even have (like the 4 pc bonus).

    I have noticed though my HPS have gotten a lot better in LFR while using more shields, less smites and using a Weak aura to tell me when I have EAA proc'ed. Though I know a lot of people don't count LFR as a good meaure tool- but it still counts for me since I haven't done normal raids.
    Great! Glad you're seeing an improvement!

    As someone who coaches a lot of players in my guild (and has over the years), my advice is to try to keep what you're doing as simple as possible until you understand the basics. Once you've got the basics, then you can try to do more "expert" things once you understand why they work. More often than not, players who are trying but really struggling just lack a good fundamental core because most guides are written for mythic level raiders.

    Basic Disc is all about PWS spamming, making sure you're using your mana regeneration talent (solace or mindbender) on cooldown, using your AA every time it's up (should have at least 3 stacks from casting 3 HF's or 3 Sol) and casting your Empowered AA PoH on the group most damaged or most likely to take damage (typically the tanks and melee, which should be in the same group).

    Frankly, I think it's even ok if you hold your penance and only use it on your tank if your raid is struggling with tank damage (though you may want to consider CoW at that point). It's a bit of a bandaid, but if it gets you through your first couple raids, it's fine. If it keeps you away from spamming too many flash heals, it's better than the alternative.

    Once you've got a decent grasp of all that, come back and have a look at the discussions and see what areas you can start making "next level" moves on.

    Good luck!
    Last edited by jason1975; 2015-07-28 at 06:36 AM.
    "I don't always play my warlock, but when I do, I prefer destruction."
    - The Most Interesting Player in the World . . . of Warcraft

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