Do runes really matter?

[Deleted]

I've just hit 30 and have been playing mostly AD champs since I started playing last year, I bought runes as I went because that's what I thought you needed to do to play/be better but apparently they just raise your ELO (idk if that is true or not). My question is that at level 30 do I really need them to play better in game? I have most tier 3 runes for AD needs so I can use them when playing an AD but I have 7k ip stored up to buy a champ/s and I was wondering if I was to get an AP champ if not having runes would damage my performance all that much?

[Duilliath]

Let's put it this way: Would you like to start the game with a free B.F. Sword?

Because, essentially, that's the equivalent in stats you're giving up if you don't use Runes.

[Stylepoints]

If you are playing ranked, and you are bronze level, runes aren't going to make much of a difference. Bronze players "generally" don't have a wide selection of champs and they don't have many/if any rune pages. So you won't notice. But once you get to mid-Silver and higher, you have to have runes to compete. Runes mostly impact early game trades. Late game full builds you won't really notice a difference unless you are running like CDR runes.

Unless you really outplay your opponent or are hard countering your lane, runes are a must.

I just purchased my final champ a couple weeks ago and I had 2 rune pages. I had an AD page and an AP page. Basically AP/AD quints with armor and scaling MR + penetration marks. That is really all you need to start out. I wouldn't heavily invest in runes unless you like to play multiple lanes and multiple types of champs. You can get away with less than 5 rune pages early on. Once you start playing jungle though, that is when you really notice a difference in rune pages. Like flat CDR runes vs scaling cdr, attack speed, health, armor. There are so many viable combinations that depend on playstyle and champion, and even how you build that champion.

TLDR - Runes are important.

[Xeerah]

If you are playing ranked, and you are bronze level, runes aren't going to make much of a difference. Bronze players "generally" don't have a wide selection of champs and they don't have many/if any rune pages. So you won't notice. But once you get to mid-Silver and higher, you have to have runes to compete. Runes mostly impact early game trades. Late game full builds you won't really notice a difference unless you are running like CDR runes.

Unless you really outplay your opponent or are hard countering your lane, runes are a must.

I just purchased my final champ a couple weeks ago and I had 2 rune pages. I had an AD page and an AP page. Basically AP/AD quints with armor and scaling MR + penetration marks. That is really all you need to start out. I wouldn't heavily invest in runes unless you like to play multiple lanes and multiple types of champs. You can get away with less than 5 rune pages early on. Once you start playing jungle though, that is when you really notice a difference in rune pages. Like flat CDR runes vs scaling cdr, attack speed, health, armor. There are so many viable combinations that depend on playstyle and champion, and even how you build that champion.

TLDR - Runes are important.

To give an example for AP-Mid (my runes)
Dorans (15 AP) + Runes (26AP flat) = 41 AP on lvl 1
Armor and Magic pen flat
Just as Stylepoints said
Runes are boosting ur early or in point of CDR / Lifesteal and such ur whole game

[Alarinth]

on sort of the same topic, what kind of runes have the biggest effect at low level (2-4)?

I have always ran magPen + flat AP on my AP toons, but recently tried swapping out 7 of the flat AP runes for MagPen glyphs. The effect might've been sort of placebo, but it did indeed look like that did more damage than I am used to by the time I got to L3.

[Duilliath]

+atk dmg, +armour

Minions actually do a fuckton of damage to you without defensive masteries and some runes. +atk dmg helps with last hitting and harass.

MPen does pretty much bugger all vs minions. It's mostly to counter the magic resist champions have.

[Alarinth]

MPen does pretty much bugger all vs minions. It's mostly to counter the magic resist champions have.

Oh yes, that was my point. An AP caster with MPen seems to do much more damage at low level than the same with AP runes (against champions). This could probably be very wrong though, but this is anecdotal. Was just wondering if other people experienced the same. I guess this is unique to champions who doesn't scale very well with AP, like Kog'Maw.

[Duilliath]

Erm... Kog'maw scales insanely well with everything. Possibly other than Health and even that's debatable.

Anyway, AP makes your abilities do more damage. MPen makes resistances less good. At some point there's a cut off where the one is better than the other.

[Alarinth]

Erm... Kog'maw scales insanely well with everything. Possibly other than Health and even that's debatable.

He really does not, though. Let me quote from his ult, Living Artillery;

MAGIC DAMAGE: 80 / 120 / 160 (+ 30% AP) (+ 50% Bonus AD)
MAGIC DAMAGE TO CHAMPIONS: 160 / 240 / 320 (+ 30% AP) (+ 50% Bonus AD)

If we compare that to, say, Ekko, he scales a lot better;

MAGIC DAMAGE: 200 / 350 / 500 (+ 130% AP)
HEAL: 100 / 150 / 200 (+ 20 / 25 / 30% 「 (+ 1% per 30 AP) 」 of damage taken).

Might be that we are talking about different concepts here, but my understanding is that as Kog'Maws benefit from AP is only 30%, he'd much rather focus on MPen instead of AP, as that is a much higher benefit per point of Mpen compared to per point of AP.

Do not that I am NOT saying Kog'Maw does not scale well (I know he scales like a beast), but AP isn't what makes him scale well, which is why I brought up the ap vs Mpen discussion

[Duilliath]

And what exactly is the cooldown on Kog'maw's ult vs Ekko's ult?

Additionally, Kog's E has a 70% AP scaling, his Q has another 50% AP scaling. His W also scales with AP (1% per 100 AP).

Being selective in your arguments does not help your case. I could just point at Ekko's 20% AP scaling on his E and make much the same statement. However, I'd be wrong.

[zuze]

They matter alot, I'd actually like to see them removed.

[Deleted]

They matter alot, I'd actually like to see them removed.

That would be stupid. Sure it can be a pain to farm the IP for it, but they allow for different set-ups and tactics. Removing them is simply dumbing down the game Blizzard style.

[Talby]

I agree with both of you, they shouldn't remove runes but the ip cost is stupid. Either reduce or remove the IP cost let there still be the planning pages but make it so new players aren't completely fucked over without spending money for all the good champs in order to not be at a disadvantage due to no runes.

[Charge me Doctor]

That would be stupid. Sure it can be a pain to farm the IP for it, but they allow for different set-ups and tactics. Removing them is simply dumbing down the game Blizzard style.

They should remove runes and expand masteries, or simply make all runes free (which would be basically free X stat points to allocate)

[Deleted]

They should remove runes and expand masteries, or simply make all runes free (which would be basically free X stat points to allocate)

People .. it's still a business. They have to set up 'goals' so people would actually play the damn thing. Hell, most runes aren't used anyways.

[Dundebuns]

If they made runes free, they'd need another IP sink

[Deleted]

That would be stupid. Sure it can be a pain to farm the IP for it, but they allow for different set-ups and tactics. Removing them is simply dumbing down the game Blizzard style.

It wouldn't be stupid at all. I'd also think it would be better to remove runes. It would make the game more balanced.

[Talby]

People .. it's still a business. They have to set up 'goals' so people would actually play the damn thing. Hell, most runes aren't used anyways.

1 rune page including the cost of the runepage itself is (math off the top of my head haven't opened league in awhile) is almost/over 20k ip. assuming 100 ip a game that's 200 games for 1 page. When there's over 110 champions who almost every archetype needs different pages (and those within said archetypes also prefer different pages between themselves) I feel like that's just a little bit too expensive for a free to play game. That and since obviously nobody is a god and has a 100% winrate over an extended period of time the amount of ip per game is gonna be closer to 78-90 for losses and over 100 for wins (including first win of the day)

A good medium between that I feel riot would be ok with doing would be to grant every new player 1 free runepage (let's say everyone below level 30 gets this added to their account). Flat ad quints and marks, flat armor seals, and flat magic resistances blues are now unlocked just like the rune slots are during leveling. They're the cheapest runes people actually use (hp5 reds lel), and they're basic enough any champion can use them, it'll help with last hitting and not dying, and it'll teach the importance of runes once the newer players are like "wow i unlocked two ad quints and this is so easy! Maybe if I want to attack faster or cast bigger spells it'll be just as much of a difference :O wow what's spellvamp I should try that, bet it would be good on garen he casts a lot of spells"...hmm maybe not lol.

[Deleted]

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It wouldn't be stupid at all. I'd also think it would be better to remove runes. It would make the game more balanced.

More balanced? Everyone has access to every possible rune. Thus giving everyone the exact same benefit. They allow for diversity and different playstyles. How on earth is that bad?

I agree they are very expensive, especially since everyone just wants so unlock new champions instead of runes. But removing them? Fuck no. Play WoW if you want a dumbed down game.

[Charge me Doctor]

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More balanced? Everyone has access to every possible rune. Thus giving everyone the exact same benefit. They allow for diversity and different playstyles. How on earth is that bad?

I agree they are very expensive, especially since everyone just wants so unlock new champions instead of runes. But removing them? Fuck no. Play WoW if you want a dumbed down game.

Except not everyone has access to every possible rune. Placing stuff behind pay/grind walls is what creates unfair advantage to begin with. Removal of said walls can make the game only better