H-Archimonde doable in small raid?

[Deleted]

Hello everyone,
I'm looking for suggestions and if possible, videos, on how to do H-Archimonde with a small (10-15) raid (with summer vacations, our usual Mythic-raid is reduced to very few players for a few weeks). It seems DPS tuning on H-Archimonde is very tight for small raids, we take almost 4mn to reach P2 whereas all videos I found take more like two minutes (but with a much bigger raid size).

Thanks for any constructive suggestion and links.

[Archmage Alodi]

it's doable with any raid size , if you have problem killing it with your group post logs otherwise no one can help.

[Deleted]

it's doable with any raid size.

I fully believe that, but the fact that I can't find any videos is a bit strange. I'll post logs as soon as I get them.

[MrExcelion]

Took a look at the first 2000 ranks, saw one 16, some 17s, nothing below that

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ty=4&boss=1799

Here's one of the 16s:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

[Leadros]

Im just gonna hijack this thread and post our logs, maybe someone can give me some advice that i dont really know yet.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...Zh8Xa#fight=16

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8TZFcqWdPDhngbf9

Logs of two nights of attempts of our guild.


i myself did archimonde hc rnd with 18 oder 19 ppl yesterday, if that counts as small raidsize.

[Deleted]

Everything is possible but the more people the better (and easier). I looked for raid compositions a week ago on warcraftlogs when there was precisely 967 kills and only 2 were with less than 16 people (and only 30 kill with less than 20 people). Honestly the scaling of this fight is just really bad tuned.

I would wait until you have legendary ring on most of your raid members, otherwise you will burn out quickly.

[Dawnrage]

Took a look at the first 2000 ranks, saw one 16, some 17s, nothing below that

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ty=4&boss=1799

Here's one of the 16s:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Look at the ilvl though.

[Deleted]

It's pretty awful with a small group size. I'm sure it's 'doable'. But if you can bring 30 players and 6 healers you can have 2 cd's up for every rain of chaos. The difference between 2 CD's per rain and 1 CD per rain is huge. Plus the scaling with the twisting nether mechanic seems off to me. Larger groups are always easier due to things like devo aura etc. not having player caps.

Also take for example the portal adds. Towards the end you're going to have 3 running out at a time regardless of group size. So much easier for a 30 man raid to trap/slow 3 adds than a 10 man raid group - which might only have 2-3 ranged. One of which will be in the nether. So yeh, RIP.

Took a look at the first 2000 ranks, saw one 16, some 17s, nothing below that

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ty=4&boss=1799

Here's one of the 16s:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Are these progress though? Also like the poster above said. Look at their item levels

[Keosen]

Small group size is far from balanced.
Same thing as previous tier.
10man H Arch is probably the hardest thing after M Arch

[Deja Thoris]

The tuning is a joke. Lets compare 10 man to 30 man:
1) 60% of your raid getting chained instead of 20%
2) 30% of your raid entering the TN instead of 10-15%
3) 3 portal adds to be taken care of by 10 people instead of 30.

This doesn't even cover the DR's available to a large raid group for later in the fight.

Really the only logical conclusion to draw is Blizz wants to "force" bigger groups because they have to know the scaling is boned.

[Tojara]

The DPS requirements aren't technically the problem, it's the mechanics that cause the DPS/Healing requirements to get really wonky.

The damage doesn't scale down with lower numbers, but it does hit less people, this actually causes some problems because with a group of 10, you're still going to have 2 people handling a wrought of chaos at a time, 3 people getting shackled and the same number of adds coming out of the nether portals with a lower amount of people. Yes the adds coming out of the portal have less health, but you have to designate a larger portion of your raid to deal with them. The banish group is almost always going to consist of 50% of your raid as well, and the option to suicide a group of 3 at the end is a much riskier choice in groups of lower numbers, where it's pretty much an no-brainer with a larger group.

It's a lot like some of the launch Cataclysm 10 man heroic bosses. Magmaw heroic was balanced initially, around one person dealing with the worms, and a group of 3-4 people kiting the skeletons away while the rest of the raid dealt with killing the boss. At that point in time the skeletons had way too much health to kill normally, but sacrificing 20% of your raid in a 25 man to deal with these special jobs wasn't a deal breaker. The thing was, that the boss felt exactly the same on 10 man, despite having it's health tuned for a group of 10 people. That boss was 3 healed, so when you remove 4-5 people for worms and skeletons, you ended up with a tank, 3 healers and 1-2 DPS to kill the entirety of the bosses health, which wasn't possible. Sinestra was less brutal, but every time you had to kite twilight cutters you had 20% of your raid basically losing DPS, while a 25 man would lose like 5% of their raid.

Obviously I'm not saying it's impossible, because it probably isn't, but it's part of the reason Blizzard made the raid change to begin with in regards to Mythic for balancing. I do think however if they are going to continue with flex for heroic/normal that they take a bit more time balancing the encounters, especially at lower group numbers. On heroic anyway, the majority of the bosses in HFC are a lot easier with larger group sizes. Intended? Yeah, but not when the difficulty swing is massive.

[KaPe]

I had the misfortune of attempting this in 10 man group during a slow day (more of a morbid curiousity, since actual progress raid is 20+ and the difference is huge). Just spare yourself the misery. DPS requirements might be one thing, but it's a nuisance to heal, too. Higher chance of healer getting bursted, chased by doomfire, running around with laser. Tank damage on top of chain damage on top of movement on top of banish and far less cooldowns to use. You have three chains ticking while two people get hit by laser and tanks are dealing with adds - 70% of your raid is taking damage simultaneously and you're still supposed to break the chains and cause even more damage. You don't have enough cooldowns to stabilize the situation and the chain damage is increasing if you're too slow.

And then there's the same amount of shadows, I think?

It's terribly balanced. At the very least, the skills should target less people, last for shorter amount of time or have longer pauses between them. It will probably get fixed at some point, but right now it's mostly a waste of time. Admitedly, the rings might make it more bearable next reset, but if you do have 20 people - use them. Or go Mythic.

[Keosen]

Let's see who will get World's First 10man Arch

[Deleted]

Hi,

we got our Firtskill yesterday with a 14 ppl grp. With a few rings in the raid and the increasing gearscore, it is definitely doable but the last phase is very chaotic.

Here is a video of our kill: www[dot]youtube[dot]com/watch?v=a8rg6P4mv9w (I'm not allowed to post links yet)

It's all about timing chains and handling the adds efficiently in P3. Delay chains during Rain of Fire and make sure the raid is toped before popping them.

For the nether Banishes, we sent 5 people (1 Tank, 1 Melee, 2 Ranged and 1 Heal) every time. Our two Hunters with 4set killed the shadow Adds very quickly so that the rest of the ranged could focuse on the Infernals. We had one Tank and our Hunters taunt the Infernals to spread them and then nuked the shit out of them (Melees the Tank Infernal, Ranged the others).

Maybe the video helps some of you guys out there .

Greetings

[Deleted]

Perhaps people forget that archimonde is also hard for big raids. We needed 4 raids to kill Archi. It was less about raid size. We needed to optimize our strategy for p3.

Just scaling up to more people isnt the answer.

- - - Updated - - -

Why we see bigger raids? Because you can pick 30 guys and the more you have the more loot you can get. We fillbour heroic raids with family and friends.

And guilds that are strong enough for archi hc usually have 25m and more for mythic raiding.

[Deja Thoris]

Perhaps people forget that archimonde is also hard for big raids. We needed 4 raids to kill Archi. It was less about raid size. We needed to optimize our strategy for p3.

Just scaling up to more people isnt the answer.

- - - Updated - - -

Why we see bigger raids? Because you can pick 30 guys and the more you have the more loot you can get. We fillbour heroic raids with family and friends.

And guilds that are strong enough for archi hc usually have 25m and more for mythic raiding.

Your post doesn't add anything. Reasons why it is harder for smaller groups are given in detail.

[kamuimac]

T

Really the only logical conclusion to draw is Blizz wants to "force" bigger groups because they have to know the scaling is boned.

they have been trying to do it desperately since mid mop - and are still failing - when will blizzard realise that people never wanted and will never want to raid in big groups :/

[burek]

if he wasn't as hard for smaller groups you would hear much more mythic 10man whining

[Notdev]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...0.15&boss=1799

There are 5 14-15 man kills on wowprogress, ranging from an ilvl of 706.9 to 708.5.

Honestly this doesn't surprise me much because most guilds capable of killing H Archimonde at this point are, or should be, mythic capable guilds, and mythic capable guilds are going to have 20+ people.

The issue with Blizzard scaling normal/heroic raids this expansion is 100% mechanic related and has very little to do with damage/hp. Like how 3 people go down on Kilrogg in a 10 man group and 3 go down in a 30 man group.

10 man groups will still get the same amount of chains, and the same amount adds, most notably will still get 3 infernals, and I heard something like the nether banish add's health barely scales up per added DPS, and he has like less than twice as much HP in a 30 man group as he does in a 10 man group.

Could see things like mechanics that are normally 3 for mythic could scale down to 2 for 10 man and up to 4 for 30. Wouldn't be totally game breaking and would still be easier in bigger groups but would make things more realistic in smaller groups. But I guess the reason Blizzard doesn't want to do the whole "lets not add another person because we'll get another x mechanic" thing.

[kamuimac]

P
Why we see bigger raids? Because you can pick 30 guys and the more you have the more loot you can get. We fillbour heroic raids with family and friends.

ye because those groups that are on hc archimond atm are filled with f&f - what drugs are you on cause i woudl liek some of them if they make you claim bs like that -_-