Will we ever get real capital cities again?

[JustRob]

Capital cities are quite expensive to make. I would prefer that they do things like in Ashran where it's all based on already existing assets and is not too large and than use the dev time and add it to raid development.

You're part of the problem. Not everybody wants to fucking raid. Sacrificing all other content to make more raids is bullshit.

How are the Shrines from MoP not Capitals to you?

They literally had everything that you needed in a pretty awesome looking location.

I don't exactly see what tonnes of empty space does that makes Dalaran or Shattrath any more "capitals" than the Shrines.

Maybe because they were small as shit and they made virtually no effort to give each faction their own unique cities?

If you think Shattrath and Dalaran were empty then you didn't play during TBC and WotLK, or you're blind.

WoTLK had Naxx, which required no work from artits, ToC was also really cheap to make. Also keep in mind that art assets today cost more than they did in the past due to higher polygon count and higher resolution. Molten Core was done in a week, something like ToT take a lot longer to make.

I like how you're leaving out Icecrown Citadel and Ulduar, the latter of which many people still consider their favorite raid in the game. Siege of Orgrimmar also took no effort to make as Orgrimmar was already in the game.

[Noctifer616]

You're part of the problem. Not everybody wants to fucking raid. Sacrificing all other content to make more raids is bullshit.

Why would I care about what others want? You don't like the game? Leave.

[JustRob]

Why would I care about what others want? You don't like the game? Leave.

If all the selfish douchebags like you left this game, it would improve a lot already

[Noctifer616]

If all the selfish douchebags like you left this game, it would improve a lot already

Everyone is selfish. You want to have fun with the game and so do I. If I like the current state of the game does that make me selfish?

[Deleted]

WoTLK had Naxx, which required no work from artits, ToC was also really cheap to make. Also keep in mind that art assets today cost more than they did in the past due to higher polygon count and higher resolution. Molten Core was done in a week, something like ToT take a lot longer to make.

And Highmaul, BRF and HFC are high quality raid content?

Come on now, you're talking out of your ass.

There's no relation between a high quality capital city and subpar raiding content (or even other content for that matter).

[JustRob]

Everyone is selfish. You want to have fun with the game and so do I. If I like the current state of the game does that make me selfish?

No, saying they should focus mostly on raid content and the rest doesn't matter as much is selfish.

[Noctifer616]

And Highmaul, BRF and HFC are high quality raid content?

Come on now, you're talking out of your ass.

Compared the other raids yes, certainly a lot better than FL and DS. I can't compare them to the raids from WoTLK outside the first tier since I haven't played back then, but I actually enjoy mythic raids in WoD.

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No, saying they should focus mostly on raid content and the rest doesn't matter as much is selfish.

So you want to deprive me of my happiness? That's selfish too.

[Deleted]

How are the Shrines from MoP not Capitals to you?

They literally had everything that you needed in a pretty awesome looking location.

I don't exactly see what tonnes of empty space does that makes Dalaran or Shattrath any more "capitals" than the Shrines.

Shrines were claustrophobic utility zones. Indeed, they had almost everything you'd expect in a capital city from a utility standpoint, packed in a small space with nearly no room left for any atmospheric flavour.

[theun]

And Highmaul, BRF and HFC are high quality raid content?

Come on now, you're talking out of your ass.

There's no relation between a high quality capital city and subpar raiding content (or even other content for that matter).

Hell, what I suggested could even make for a good mix of capital city design and raid content (despite not being exactly WoW raiding per say. But charging in to take your stolen city back is pretty much raiding in the literal sense)

[Deleted]

Compared the other raids yes, certainly a lot better than FL and DS. I can't compare them to the raids from WoTLK outside the first tier since I haven't played back then, but I actually enjoy mythic raids in WoD.

Why are you quoting FL and DS? We weren't talking about Cata in which no new capital cities were created. You're debating against the point you're trying to make. Are you ok? I'm a bit worried now.

BC had Sunwell and Karazhan. Wotlk had ICC and Ulduar. Those 4 count nearly unanimously in the top 5 of WoW raids. And those expansions had excellent, sprawling capital cities.

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Why would I care about what others want? You don't like the game? Leave.

And that's the ultimate card you're pulling because you started a discussion you cannot possibly win.

First you arrgued that capital cities detract valuable, limited resources from the creation of high quality raid content. When faced with the facts that 2 expansions with excellent capital cities contained some of the most memorable raids in game history, you're talking some mumbojumbo about creative asset cost exploding through the years rendering the combination of a good capital city and good raid content impossible, without any factual basis, and when that argument is wavering as well you tell us to fuck off if we don't like the game.

[Lochton]

No, no more capitols.. The others are already dying.. make a rotation on capitols then.. move some portals to one of the others..

[Ayla]

Shrines were claustrophobic utility zones. Indeed, they had almost everything you'd expect in a capital city from a utility standpoint, packed in a small space with nearly no room left for any atmospheric flavour.

No profession trainers, few vendors/repairs I did not care for shrine. I thought it was a glorified portal island. I am sick to death of portals. MoP could have offered airship transport, I miss having a boat with epic music. But, I know that probably wont happen ever again.

Same with capitals. If we are lucky we might get a shrine like building. I dont count on it. Who needs a new city when you have sw/org?

[Deleted]

I guess it depends on the expansion. In MoP and WoD it made sense to not add a complete city, but something along the lines of a forward base instead. Arguably MoP could have had a shared pandaren capitol, but they are still having nightmares of shared dalaran. Dalaran was freaking awesome, but the strain on servers and clients was enormous. Cata had no new capitol for obvious reasons.

So depending on where we go next we might get a new capitol. I'm hoping for something that combines Shatt and Dala at some point. Spread out enough to make it possible, but a 'real' city feel like dalaran with it's interesting details all over the place. I'd be ok with (re-)using our existing capitols like Cata did as well.

[Deleted]

No profession trainers, few vendors/repairs I did not care for shrine. I thought it was a glorified portal island. I am sick to death of portals. MoP could have offered airship transport, I miss having a boat with epic music. But, I know that probably wont happen ever again.

I agree with you, don't get me wrong.

It's not even about nostalgia glasses here: when creating a (relatively) open world fantasy game, especially when creating new continents, you want to have interesting, high quality, creative player hubs that fullfil their utility role, but you also want them to be a point of (many) interest(s). You don't want people to go there, repair and AFK. Ideally you want them to run around, look for stuff, discover interesting tidbits, explore the area, make them feel at home.
Stormwind was really good at that from the legacy capital cities. Shattrath expanded on that well enough and Dalaran perfected it.

While i didn't particularly dislike Shrine (i thought the art was pretty nice in the Horde bank), there was nothing to be done there. You had your AH (for some of us), you had your bank, repair guys, ethereal NPC's and portals. But there was nothing cool or fun to be done. Nothing like the NPC refugees in Shattrath with an interesting story/scripted NPC interactions? Nothing like Dalaran which had something fun/interesting/beautiful in every goddamn building.
Shrine was useful, but creatively dull and dead. And after 1 visit, all you're left with is afking in the 2 central locations and staring at a fighting dummy.

Great work, much players, such content, wow.

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I guess it depends on the expansion. In MoP and WoD it made sense to not add a complete city, but something along the lines of a forward base instead. Arguably MoP could have had a shared pandaren capitol, but they are still having nightmares of shared dalaran. Dalaran was freaking awesome, but the strain on servers and clients was enormous. Cata had no new capitol for obvious reasons.

So depending on where we go next we might get a new capitol. I'm hoping for something that combines Shatt and Dala at some point. Spread out enough to make it possible, but a 'real' city feel like dalaran with it's interesting details all over the place. I'd be ok with (re-)using our existing capitols like Cata did as well.

I'm not sure I agree about WoD. Our Garrisons were our forward bases for the assault on the Iron Horde. Karabor and Bladespire Hold coul've been the central residence of our allied WoD faction. Now I feel like, for the Horde, Durotan is simply just about everywhere. He's standing next to shrubberies in Gorgrond, instead of sitting on his Ogre throne in Bladespire.

If the next expansion is situated on a different continent once more, I would love a shared capital like in Wotlk once more.

[Deleted]

Blizzard have become progressively worse at designing capital cities:
Vanilla: Perfect. Capitals were busy with players, it felt alive.
TBC: Stunning looking cities added but they completely forgot to put any kind of incentive to visit them. Shratrath was really good.
Wrath: Dalaran was good but too small for two factions.
Cata: At least there was people in the old school capitals again. Otherwise lazy.
MOP: Shrines were the biggest copy paste lazy attempt ever. Too small.
WoD: Terrible areas that are just there because. No real character just a mismatch of crap. Fairly empty and small being about the same size as Goldshire....

Blizzard as of WoD is TERRIBLE at creating living breathing environments for the player. See FF14 on how it is done.

[Noctifer616]

Why are you quoting FL and DS? We weren't talking about Cata in which no new capital cities were created. You're debating against the point you're trying to make. Are you ok? I'm a bit worried now.

BC had Sunwell and Karazhan. Wotlk had ICC and Ulduar. Those 4 count nearly unanimously in the top 5 of WoW raids. And those expansions had excellent, sprawling capital cities.

DS and FL are the worst examples (well, Naxx would be since they just took it from vanilla and changed numbers). But compared to TBC raids WoD is good as well if not better (I would say Sunwell was really great while the rest was ok).

[Deleted]

No profession trainers, few vendors/repairs I did not care for shrine. I thought it was a glorified portal island. I am sick to death of portals. MoP could have offered airship transport, I miss having a boat with epic music. But, I know that probably wont happen ever again.

Same with capitals. If we are lucky we might get a shrine like building. I dont count on it. Who needs a new city when you have sw/org?

Waiting for a zeppelin/boat/etc is great. Sure its annoying to waste time when compared to a portal, but you oftentimes end up with minor social interactions with other people there.

Small conversations, lining up mounts and/or mountspecials, dancing, inspecting that guys tmog, etc. And then ofc there is the occasional glorious falling through the zeppelin to your death when something goes wrong on the loading screen. I have quite some memories of stuff on zeppelins from vanilla.

[caervek]

Prefer hanging in my garrison to hanging in a capital city tbh.

[Deleted]

I wish they would, at least a new dalaran/shattrat kind of capital, it's about damn time really

[Super Kami Dende]

Maybe because they were small as shit and they made virtually no effort to give each faction their own unique cities?

You mean like how Shattrath and Dalaran were both shared for Horde and Alliance?