How to kill Tanks as an Assassin

[Deleted]

So recently i am all about assassin champions but in this messed up tank meta i am having major problems killing champions.
Anyone knows an effective method to counter tanks?

[Deleted]

So recently i am all about assassin champions but in this messed up tank meta i am having major problems killing champions.
Anyone knows an effective method to counter tanks?

Build your prevalent Defence penetrator and then use tools that deal % HP.

Or stop whining and target the carry like an Assassin should. You're acting like Assassins should be able to kill everything and anything and that's how we got this stupid arms race style meta shifting.

[mmokri]

What kinda assassins? You need attack speed and crit.

[Charge me Doctor]

Create space for your carry to melt them

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I think it's related to this topic

It's a mechanic we only intend to only use very occasionally (hence the 4 year gap between Vayne's release with it and Fiora's rework gaining it). It's something we've explored on a few different prototypes post Vayne release, this is the first time though where we've concluded it was an appropriate fit. % max hp physical/magic damage or flat true damage are almost always the more appropriate tool for abilities that need to be limited against squishy targets/strengthened against tankier targets."

I'm not saying that Meddler is wrong at this, but if you look at it closer - %hp damage abilities are not "limited" against squishy targets, they are just outright stronger against tankier targets (prove being them having raw damage on them). Because squishy targets are hurt not by %hp, but because of prerequisites of said %hp damage (for example, to get a connection from Vayne silver arrows have to eat 3 hits first, and if you are, say, Syndra, and it's early game have to eat up ~400 damage worth of auto-attacks, and then 4% of your max health (which is, like, 50, but it adds 20 on top of that (freaking 40% of %hp damage) because fuck logic) and in addition to eating 400 damage from autos, you lose extra 70 health from silver arrows for extra 17,5% damage total. Just from a passive skill that supposed to be "limited against squishy targets".

For contrast, same 3 autos that end up dealing 400 damage through 50 armour (which is 600 raw damage) on 1000 health Syndra would end up dealing 300 damage on 200 armour and 1600 health Leona, which would result in extra 64 extra damage (add 20 free true damage from rank 1 silver arrows, which is about 30% of %hp damage), and true damage on a tanky target is bigger on whooping 14 points.

So, by an ADC character utilizing a "limited against squishy targets" tool would end up dealing 470 damage to squishy target and 384 to tanky target, where damage provided by said " limited against squishy" tool is 70 and 84 respectively. Make your own conclusions, but i'm not going to swallow this "limited against squishy targets" bullcrap. For fucks sake, if it would be 10 and 100 damage difference i would say "yeah, that thing is limited against squishy targets", but 14 damage? In case when tankier target can have twice as much health?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

True damage, or items that deal % max hp.

Likewise, building health yourself can't hurt.

[Dundebuns]

If it's a 1 on 1, you'll need to deal damage then disengage before the tank can deal it back to you. A tank will out last you because of their defenses and health, so you need to find a way to outlast that.

[Charge me Doctor]

True damage, or items that deal % max hp.

Likewise, building health yourself can't hurt.

I agree, and it shouldn't hurt, but, when they state that an ability that is supposed to be limited when used against squishy targets they should back it up with something, because simple existence of Vayne in the game ruins their statement. It's not limited, it even has a "free damage" part on an ability that is allegedly limited against squishy targets. If they would want silver arrows to be limited against squishy targets they would remove this 20-60 free damage part and would boosted %hp damage. In its current state it's opposite of what Meddler just said, it's not limited against squishies, it's buffed against them

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I agree, and it shouldn't hurt, but, when they state that an ability that is supposed to be limited when used against squishy targets they should back it up with something, because simple existence of Vayne in the game ruins their statement. It's not limited, it even has a "free damage" part on an ability that is allegedly limited against squishy targets. If they would want silver arrows to be limited against squishy targets they would remove this 20-60 free damage part and would boosted %hp damage. In its current state it's opposite of what Meddler just said, it's not limited against squishies, it's buffed against them

I'm not sure of Vaynes win ration in the current ranked meta... but I rememeber a long time ago someone justifying Silver Arrows by saying it was "hard to control..."


WAT

[Charge me Doctor]

I'm not sure of Vaynes win ration in the current ranked meta... but I rememeber a long time ago someone justifying Silver Arrows by saying it was "hard to control..."


WAT

The only way to justify silver arrows is Vayne being short-ranged and extremely vulnerable ADC. But her silver arrows are not limited against squishy targets - they do exactly same damage to squishy targets as they do to tanky targets (about 10% of max health per connection at max rank). Not sure about "hard to control" thing, can't you just auto-tumble-condemn for free proc?

Just for funzies, auto-tumble-condemn of 370 AD Vayne (late-late-game + ult) would result in 1295 physical damage (+200 true damage on squishy target with 1800 health or +300 true damage on tankier target with 3000 health), 3 autos in a row result in 1110. I personally think that if Vayne will get devs attention and they will actually rebalance her to be less of an bullshit ADC+assassin hybrid they would make condemn to deal full damage only when it connects to a wall (which is very assassin-esque), they would make up silver arrows to be actually less effective vs low-health targets and make her passive more proactive than just "FREE SPEEDZ"

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

The only way to justify silver arrows is Vayne being short-ranged and extremely vulnerable ADC. But her silver arrows are not limited against squishy targets - they do exactly same damage to squishy targets as they do to tanky targets (about 10% of max health per connection at max rank). Not sure about "hard to control" thing, can't you just auto-tumble-condemn for free proc?

Just for funzies, auto-tumble-condemn of 370 AD Vayne (late-late-game + ult) would result in 1295 physical damage (+200 true damage on squishy target with 1800 health or +300 true damage on tankier target with 3000 health), 3 autos in a row result in 1110. I personally think that if Vayne will get devs attention and they will actually rebalance her to be less of an bullshit ADC+assassin hybrid they would make condemn to deal full damage only when it connects to a wall (which is very assassin-esque), they would make up silver arrows to be actually less effective vs low-health targets and make her passive more proactive than just "FREE SPEEDZ"

They honestly probably won't care unless her win/played/ban ratios are very high. I don't think she is used overwhelmingly in tourneys either.. which has a huge impact. Gold+ is normally what they look at for balance.

[Charge me Doctor]

They honestly probably won't care unless her win/played/ban ratios are very high. I don't think she is used overwhelmingly in tourneys either.. which has a huge impact. Gold+ is normally what they look at for balance.

I too think that they follow "if it's not broken - don't touch it" rule. It's not even big of a deal, character is not broken, and nowhere in definition is said that silver arrows supposed to work worse on squishy characters, but this statement of Meddler that %hp skills are meant to have "limited" effect on squishy characters is outright wrong and infuriated me, because it's obvious that they make %hp abilities to deal equal damage to both squishy and tanky targets, frankly, iirc, updated Fiora and Mao are the only champions who do not have raw damage added to their %hp damage, maybe Meddler wanted to say that it's their new goal to make %hp damage abilities to be limited against squishy targets

[Deleted]

No one is talking about life steal.
I think the best way to 1v1 a tank is with at least 2 items of lifesteal and some good attack speed items.

[docterfreeze]

It isn't your job as an assassin to kill the tank, it's your job to kill their squishies. Only a couple assassins can kill tanks with some work involved, master yi and kha with isolation.

You need constant dps to kill tanks, that's why you have an adc, maybe a mage too. Most assassins are about burst.

[Yvaelle]

No one is talking about life steal.
I think the best way to 1v1 a tank is with at least 2 items of lifesteal and some good attack speed items.

The risk there of course is that life steal stacking makes your ganks on non-tanks far worse: since you (potentially) lack the damage to land the burst.

[Deleted]

you don't

assassins are not supposed to kill tanks
they're supposed to kill and pick off the weak ones on the enemy team so your team are free to kill the tanks without taking too much dmg


mostly you just kill the enemy carries
then your team is free to take whatever is left without taking a lot of dmg from the carries you just killed

[MannyBerry]

As was already mentioned, items that deal % max hp. You can build all the defenses you want, but if I'm doing a % of your overall health it won't matter.

True damage is also nice.

[Yvaelle]

As was already mentioned, items that deal % max hp. You can build all the defenses you want, but if I'm doing a % of your overall health it won't matter.

True damage is also nice.

True damage is more true here than just % hp damage. The counter to % hp damage is to build armor/mr, or healing, rather than max hp. So if you are top lane Trundle and your opponent starts building a BotRK, assuming you will go for a high HP build, you just counter with Frozen Heart: now that BotRK physical damage is heavily mitigated and they attack slower.

[Deleted]

Agility and penetration i believe

[Duilliath]

Agility and penetration i believe

I doubt it. This is not DotA2.