Optimal MM Raid Trinkets and 100 Talent (4pc)

[Kazezoku]

-Solved-

~Mirror + Coil/Censor is best, LW over FS~

[deatzh]

RTFM
https://goo.gl/Ks7kPX

[Soisoisoi]

-Solved-

~Mirror + Coil/Censor is best, LW over FS~

FS is still great if you use it properly, especially for progress where you need to burst adds down (e.g. Kilrogg). Hell I'd use it more if I didn't have to have a pet with it. If there's cleave and/or heavy movement LW will more than likely be better though.

[Azortharion]

FS is still great if you use it properly, especially for progress where you need to burst adds down (e.g. Kilrogg).

Hahah. No.

I mean, no offense to you for thinking this, I used to think it too. Doesn't work out this way.

[deatzh]

FS is not bad and more most average players who aren't as used to pooling focus will probly perform better with it. But it is true that lw burst on the first couple shots of an add can be absolutely insane damage.

[Azortharion]

As a talent that provides little to no DPS benefit at a huge cost of mobility and consistency, it's a pretty sucky talent.

[Galkura]

So wait, is the Archimonde trinket not good compared to Mirror/Censor?

I only ask, since I've seen hunters using it, and when it comes to gearing, which trinkets to use is the only thing that stumps me.

[Dphotog]

It's bad for a multiple of reasons. Maxing thr distance from a boss when many encounters require you stacking or being near /on top of bosses. Being out of range of healers. Once you aquire the ring,you'll Def be out the 20 yard range you build up when it pops.

[Azortharion]

It's bad for a multiple of reasons. Maxing thr distance from a boss when many encounters require you stacking or being near /on top of bosses. Being out of range of healers. Once you aquire the ring,you'll Def be out the 20 yard range you build up when it pops.

Ring argument makes no sense. Hunters almost never pop the ring in organized groups, for obvious reasons (unless you happen to be the only one with a ring at all).

[Dphotog]

True Melle should be the ones activating it. (Not accounting for sketchy pugs in heroics who like to push buttons) but who cares about pugs

[Galkura]

Wouldn't the flat .30%+ damage boost per yard end up being better? I mean, even if you're only a couple yards away, the flat % damage seems pretty nice.

As I said though, I don't know crap about theorycrafting or doing math for gear. I just bash my rotation in as good a fashion as I can, and do mechanics.

Also, Azortharion, I appreciate your guide a bunch! Top hunter dps/parsing wise in my guild, as well as possibly on alliance-side on my server because of it <3

[deatzh]

Wouldn't the flat .30%+ damage boost per yard end up being better? I mean, even if you're only a couple yards away, the flat % damage seems pretty nice.

As I said though, I don't know crap about theorycrafting or doing math for gear. I just bash my rotation in as good a fashion as I can, and do mechanics.

Also, Azortharion, I appreciate your guide a bunch! Top hunter dps/parsing wise in my guild, as well as possibly on alliance-side on my server because of it <3

No. If you look at the trinket list you will see that the trinket does indeed fall above the other trinkets in dps at anywhere above 35 yards. However there is no fight during progression where that is a viable tactic outside of iron reaver. Therefore give the trinket to someone who actually has a solid effect out of it rather than whoring it for a tiny dps upgrade ONLY IF we compromise survivability and general strategy.

[Galkura]

Ah, alright.

Won't have to worry much about it anyways, my guild can't get enough competent players to get past heroic Xhul just yet, so not worrying too much about that trinket. Especially since I can just pug almost every heroic boss (can't get a group for Mann/Arch, or at least haven't yet).

So in the end, it IS mirror+coil? Are you able to explain to me why either are better than censor? And with the mirror, do the copies scale off of my stats/bonuses? Such as if I popped rapid fire/BHotM/Hero, would they gain those bonuses?

Sorry for all the questions, just want to understand the reasoning behind some of these decisions, that way one day I can just figure out trinkets on my own without having to ask others

[deatzh]

Ah, alright.

Won't have to worry much about it anyways, my guild can't get enough competent players to get past heroic Xhul just yet, so not worrying too much about that trinket. Especially since I can just pug almost every heroic boss (can't get a group for Mann/Arch, or at least haven't yet).

So in the end, it IS mirror+coil? Are you able to explain to me why either are better than censor? And with the mirror, do the copies scale off of my stats/bonuses? Such as if I popped rapid fire/BHotM/Hero, would they gain those bonuses?

Sorry for all the questions, just want to understand the reasoning behind some of these decisions, that way one day I can just figure out trinkets on my own without having to ask others

Hunters are a good dps class but what we are truly valued for is our burst potential on adds and how we can consistently have high damage with zero ramp up time anywhere it is needed. For instance an add that needs to die incredibly fast like the voidfiends on xhul, or the doomfire on archi. With censer you have two outcomes, one is you get the proc and you do more damage, the other is that you dont get the proc and there is no increased damage. Coil on the other hand always has that with zero question. With censer an add may die at 8 seconds every once and a while with proc up, with coil itll die at 10 seconds exactly no rng, or you can not have the proc and the add dies at 12 seconds. When that add dies at 12 seconds its alot more catastrophic than the positive that killing it 2 seconds faster would.

[Galkura]

Ah, I can completely understand that.

At which point should I replace my mythic BHotM? I have that, and a heroic Trigger, going to replace that as soon as I get either the coil or mirror, but is BHotM worth replacing with either of the heroic trinkets? I figure it would be, but I just want to be sure before I get rid of it.

[Soisoisoi]

Hahah. No.

I mean, no offense to you for thinking this, I used to think it too. Doesn't work out this way.

Yeah... Which is why I thought it too. Guess I need to catch up? Still, it's pretty fun to play with when you don't have to move and there's no cleave... Which is pretty damn rare though.

[Youn]

Here is the issue with the marks trinket. In theory, it's a great trinket. But in practice:

Fights:
1) Assault: In this fight you can stand near the back and fire at max range. Perfect trinket.
2) Iron Reaver: Easy to stand at max range. Perfect trinket.
3) Kromok: You can stand the furthest out of your raid but then you risk being first into pool if your group isn't fast at killing hands. Decent Trinket.
4) Gorefiend: During the non-feast phase you don't really put a huge amount of damage into Gorefiend. So, your killing adds, and putting extra damage into Gorefiend. During the Feast phase your damage is boosted, but your standing in a small group in melee range. So-So trinket.
5) Kilrog: You can stand at maximum range to everything and get full benefit: Perfect Trinket
6) Council: You can stand at maximum range to everything and get full benefit: Perfect Trinket
7) Iskar: You stand with the rest of the ranged behind boss or adds within near melee range. Bad trinket
8) Socathar: p1: Max range, good use of trinket. p2: next to dominator/boss, terrible use of trinket
9) Fel Lord: You can stand at maximum range to everything and get full benefit: Perfect Trinket
10) Tyrant: p1: half range p2: melee range of boss, p3: melee range of boss Terrible use of trinket
11) Xhul: half range for boss/mini-bosses melee for most imps/voids Terrible use of trinket
12) Mannaroth: Melee range of boss for 80% of fight. Terrible use of trinket
13) Achimonde: p1: Max range p2: melee range of boss p3:max range of adds, mid range to boss Decent Trinket

[galaxyquest]

Most of the encounters you're talking about are on Heroic. Once you're in Mythic, standing away from the group and outside of healing circles, etc. isn't realistic. Also, on Gorefiend, Feasts are the only phase in which you're doing meaningful damage to the boss. It's awful for that fight. Outside of that, I wouldn't call it the "perfect trinket" for any encounters.

The biggest problem I have w/ the trinket is the annoyance of balancing max range with Sniper Training and everything else going on.

[Deleted]

The above list shows a real ignorance to the actual important parts of the fight.

2) Iron Reaver: Easy to stand at max range. Perfect trinket.

Except you have bombs at varying ranges. Not to mention blitz sometimes ruining boss positioning for both the duration of the blitz, and whilst re-positioning. (Very minor, but when the trinket is not too far ahead in the first place, the value diminishes very quickly).

3) Kromok: You can stand the furthest out of your raid but then you risk being first into pool if your group isn't fast at killing hands. Decent Trinket.

Since hunters are good at dealing with empowered runes, you will be again at varying distances from the boss. Almost all strats involve stacking under the boss for hands, using the legendary ring and causing a large explosion on the boss from all the AoE damage. For the duration of this you'll be under the boss with a worthless trinket.

4) Gorefiend: During the non-feast phase you don't really put a huge amount of damage into Gorefiend. So, your killing adds, and putting extra damage into Gorefiend. During the Feast phase your damage is boosted, but your standing in a small group in melee range. So-So trinket.

The important part of the fight is the adds. Which move around, a lot. You want reliable, consistent damage on adds (A reason coil is useful). Not to mention stacking in front of the boss for feast. How you can call this 'so-so' I have absolutely no idea. Horrific trinket for the fight.

5) Kilrog: You can stand at maximum range to everything and get full benefit: Perfect Trinket

Except yet again the important part is dealing with adds, that you will not able to be consistently 40y+ from. Sure, you can stand in africa and DPS the boss, but that's not really the important part of the fight is it.

9) Fel Lord: You can stand at maximum range to everything and get full benefit: Perfect Trinket

The room is barely big enough to get full usage anyway. Regardless - you forget that seeds, and soaking fissures are very much apart of the fight. Good luck keeping 40y at all times on heroic let alone mythic.

I could go on and on about the other fights as well but I think above is enough. People should really think more about progression and what's good for the fight rather than what sims highest (Think mirror on gorefiend mythic, good number wise but terribly inefficient for adds). The fact is other trinkets are just better in every way, whether that's coil for it's consistency, or other trinkets to simply provide better burst and damage in phases when it's required.

The point is, the trinket might be good in some amazing almost-never-happens scenario, but when it comes down to actual progression and damage that matters it's just worse than the alternatives.

[Kazezoku]

Plain and simple if blizzard wants to keep the MM trinkets effect as is, then they need to increase its percentage by at least .5 across all difficulties. If at least that doesn't happen then its simply not worth it taken into account with how it cant even out damage the other trinkets, coil included, alone, not to mention the high movement requirement on most fights, more so on mythic.

Just dont use the Archimonde Trinket for MM guys... its bad and should feel bad.