How far can you go in raiding as ONLY a pugger?

[Deleted]

I know it might be frustrating sometimes. Has anyone managed to make it work and have fun with it? Besides, most guilds often have problems too (so it's not like "guild -> 0% trouble, pugging -> trouble", it doesn't work like that).
Now with the advanced group finder in-game (copying oqueue) it might be more accommodating to such a 'career'.

[InkarnateKT]

Both heroic blackhand, and now heroic archimonde are killable in good pugs. if you pug a lot you get a sort of network set up of actual good pug leaders and players and it becomes far easier

[Demondep]

When I came back to WoW around the start of WoD, I did ALL my raiding via the LFG tool. I didn't want to dedicate the time I used to to organized raiding. Whenever I had a free evening I'd just jump into LFG and usually within about 15 mins I would find a group that would accept me (Normal, then Heroic).

I geared up using all available methods. I did fine. Made some new friends who invited me back at other times despite my lack of commitment.

I would say this is one of the best things Blizz has ever added to the game (LFG tool, with cross realm raiding).

I'm back into a (not super serious) organized guild now that fits my schedule, but in relation to your question it is totally feasible. It's going to be hit or miss but if YOU have patience for wipes (as you should if you want to progression raid in the first place) and are friendly and willing to learn, you can do fine.

[Kataroku]

You can do everything up to mythic.

At the start of WoD I decided against the whole guild raiding thing and went the PuG-only route. I was able to get the AotC heroic imperator achievement before any of my "hardcore" friends, which made a couple of them jealous enough to tag along for my next PuG run in order to get theirs as well. I took a break from WoW shortly after.

From what I've witnessed, every week there's always a group of people trying to organize a guild run and one or more of their core members fail to show up, making room for a pugger to step in.

Here are the perks to pugging (from my perspective):

* Meeting lots of new people each week, adding the competent ones to your friends list to be re-invited to future raids
* No raiding schedule - play when you want and escape the dread of logging in when you don't feel like playing
* Free rolls on loot in most groups - no loot council to deal with
* No dramas / guild applications / finding a new guild when yours breaks apart / trying to get along with people who you can't stand being around
* Not being held back by one or more incompetent raiders - there's always that one player who under performs each week but never gets replaced because he's such a good guy and everyone likes him

There's probably a lot more but I'm not able to come up with any downsides except maybe guild repairs. I always bring my own flasks and potions so I'm better off chilling in a social guild and raiding it up on my own time.

EDIT: as a disclaimer I should probably mention the prerequisite of you needing to be a decent player to start with, making mistakes can end your pugging career just as quickly. Learn fast or get replaced.

[galaxyquest]

The only problem is that your chances of getting gear with a pug is way lower than your chance of getting gear with a guild.. so you will probably be moving at a slower pace unless you perform at a high level. I've never solely pugged, but since WoD, I pugged to AOTC past my former guild's progress (about a month ahead of them). Having the gear base from my guild's progress obviously helped a lot with getting into solid pugs.

When I build pugs I check Armory (with addon Armory Quicklink WOD), and then check WCL. If a person at my min. required ilvl performs with epic+ logs across the board, I will invite them. If a person with a high ilvl performs with gray logs, I won't invite them.

Most people don't check as much as I do and depend on ilvl alone.

In the past two weeks I ran two H Arch pugs. In pug before rings, sub 10 pulls, in pug after rings, down in a handful.

[Djriff]

Nice thing about pugging is if you are on around peak times guilds will be looking for 1-2 fill spots. I find those easier to run with then a straight up pug. Most guilds also aren't dicks about loot for pugs. That's how I gear my alts.

[Brenno]

5/13 mythic imo.

[Deleted]

When I build pugs I check Armory (with addon Armory Quicklink WOD), and then check WCL. If a person at my min. required ilvl performs with epic+ logs across the board, I will invite them. If a person with a high ilvl performs with gray logs, I won't invite them.

What do you do with no logs at all? No invite? That would potentially exclude awesome players that just doesn't feel like logging.

[Ezekiah]

You can do everything up to mythic.

At the start of WoD I decided against the whole guild raiding thing and went the PuG-only route. I was able to get the AotC heroic imperator achievement before any of my "hardcore" friends, which made a couple of them jealous enough to tag along for my next PuG run in order to get theirs as well. I took a break from WoW shortly after.

From what I've witnessed, every week there's always a group of people trying to organize a guild run and one or more of their core members fail to show up, making room for a pugger to step in.

Here are the perks to pugging (from my perspective):

* Meeting lots of new people each week, adding the competent ones to your friends list to be re-invited to future raids
* No raiding schedule - play when you want and escape the dread of logging in when you don't feel like playing
* Free rolls on loot in most groups - no loot council to deal with
* No dramas / guild applications / finding a new guild when yours breaks apart / trying to get along with people who you can't stand being around
* Not being held back by one or more incompetent raiders - there's always that one player who under performs each week but never gets replaced because he's such a good guy and everyone likes him

There's probably a lot more but I'm not able to come up with any downsides except maybe guild repairs. I always bring my own flasks and potions so I'm better off chilling in a social guild and raiding it up on my own time.

EDIT: as a disclaimer I should probably mention the prerequisite of you needing to be a decent player to start with, making mistakes can end your pugging career just as quickly. Learn fast or get replaced.

Well the big downside is that you're drastically limited in progression unless you're on a massive server with an incredible pug community, and that is solely because of a technical limitation. I can go do Mythic with my guild. You can't do Mythic with your group unless you're all on the same server. A pre-requisite of joining a guild is that you be on the same server, so in that regard, guilds have an advantage.

For most players, Mythic either isn't something they're interested in, or is something they just don't have the consistent schedule and ability to commit to. For those players, you're right, I don't see any advantage beyond a consistent community (which you can build through pugs.)

In truth, that worries me. I wonder if we will see a continuous decline of mythic participation as this new paradigm for pug raiding continues. It seems every time I go to the recruitment forums lately, I find another group of players coming from a dead mythic guild. While this is hardly new, what I'm not seeing are a ton of new teams like I remember seeing ages ago. Maybe I'm just remembering incorrectly.

[kamuimac]

When I came back to WoW around the start of WoD, I did ALL my raiding via the LFG tool. I didn't want to dedicate the time I used to to organized raiding. Whenever I had a free evening I'd just jump into LFG and usually within about 15 mins I would find a group that would accept me (Normal, then Heroic).

I geared up using all available methods. I did fine. Made some new friends who invited me back at other times despite my lack of commitment.

I would say this is one of the best things Blizz has ever added to the game (LFG tool, with cross realm raiding).

I'm back into a (not super serious) organized guild now that fits my schedule, but in relation to your question it is totally feasible. It's going to be hit or miss but if YOU have patience for wipes (as you should if you want to progression raid in the first place) and are friendly and willing to learn, you can do fine.

its definetly very convinient - its also terrible for game in long run - lfg tool due to its convinience is inlfuencing game in very detrimenta way - its killingsocial ties and turning wow into more and more single player game where other people are treated as expendable npcs not like humans behind the avatars and where only thing that matters is numbers that allow people with "singe player mentality" to get carried by others who are to lazy to form their own groups.

mmos are build on social ties - without them they have nothing to glue the game toghether. without guilds people dont feel ties to game - without those ties they simply devour content in 4-5 weeks and unsub - and without substhe quality of content is bound to drop to the floor.

[Ealyssa]

5-7/13 mythic right now. Mythic pug clear is a given since its the last tier, but you'll have to wait a few months.

If you are a great player, with the right class/spec (obviously rdrood will have it easier than a ret), you will soon enough find a pug network of reliable leaders/group/players where you can raid at a pretty decent level.

The hardest part is when you are "behind the curve". Having a lowish ilvl will force you into average pug where you can hit or miss, delaying eventhe ilvl increase required to find a place in higher level pugs. Lacking achievement is also a weakness, you can still find archi groups easily now. But wait a few weeks, will be very hard without achievement.

[Deleted]

5-7 anything more is impossible

[kritisk]

As far as you want, honestly. The issue is more time related than encounter related. You likely won't get in as a pug until much later in a cycle than you would as part of a team that made it happen.

[JustRob]

I tried to pug BRF normal once. Got in a group eventually. Killed some bosses, then we got to the train boss. Wiped five times because idiots couldn't dodge trains and then everyone left. I spent hours of my time and managed to do only a couple of bosses.

Later I tried a pug that was at Blackhand normal. Wiped over and over again because idiots didn't know tactics, then everyone left. Once again wasted more than a good hour of my time and accomplished nothing.

Then I decided it was a waste of time and I'd stick to LFR.

[Korshay]

If you consider OpenRaid a pug, you can go pretty far. The best groups are guild alt runs that are looking for a few more toons. My alt hunter is in his 4th week of a 4-hour/week OpenRaid N HFC. It's 3 guys from the same guild, and 12-14 randoms. 11/13 so far. I've also had terrible experience with OpenRaid where I will never raid with certain leaders again.

If you're talking pure pug from the Raid tab, it's a complete crapshoot. I bailed on more heroic BRF raids that repeatedly wiped on Gruul than I can count.

[MidnyteTV]

Pugging was at its Apex in Wrath. You could easily kill half of ICC in a pug. Nowadays you're lucky if the group survives after 1 wipe. The WoW community is so used to just zerging bosses that they have no patience. Good luck pugging. I have refused to pug since I am a GM/Raid Leader. I raid with my guild. My guildies work as a team as opposed to pugs with are 9 times out of 10 concerned with loot, DPS/HPS, and screaming at each other after a wipe.

[vulena]

I've been out since 6.2 dropped, but I was pugging entirely through WoD because my guildies are IRL friends who don't seriously raid.

For Highmaul/BRF, my experience was this: expect to wipe a lot. People lie about their experience in pugs, and yes those people get booted. But not before costing everyone time. That builds up, and when new crappy people get cycled in and more wipes happen, even the good people start to think "this looks like a raid worth bailing on" and then bail.

Essentially, you can do everything. You will do it at a much slower pace overall, and you will have a lot of frustrating wipes on content no one should be wiping on. It will not be nearly as fun, and it won't necessarily get better with time as you're not in a static group pushing forward through content together. It will always be slightly more frustrating than raiding with a set group. I cannot even tell you how many terrible groups I had to get through in Highmaul to get a Heroic Imperator kill.

That all said, it does mean you get to raid on YOUR schedule, and your raid nights might not get cancelled because so many people are unsubbing from the game.

All in all, pugging 100% of the time was one of the major factors that made me quit playing. I can't recommend it.

[Wilderness]

You can pug everything through 13/13 heroic if you work at it. You can even get into Mythic but that's pretty dependent upon being on a very high pop high progression server.

But you do get out of it what you put into it. If you just join random LFG runs each week you'll get there eventually, but it will take some time. If you start that way but are social, make friends, get people onto your friends list, etc, then you'll start to build up a good network of people that you know are decent and have similar progression/goals. Eventually you'll find yourself not needing to use LFG all that often, but you'll still just be able to raid whenever you feel like it.

its definetly very convinient - its also terrible for game in long run - lfg tool due to its convinience is inlfuencing game in very detrimenta way - its killingsocial ties and turning wow into more and more single player game where other people are treated as expendable npcs not like humans behind the avatars and where only thing that matters is numbers that allow people with "singe player mentality" to get carried by others who are to lazy to form their own groups.

mmos are build on social ties - without them they have nothing to glue the game toghether. without guilds people dont feel ties to game - without those ties they simply devour content in 4-5 weeks and unsub - and without substhe quality of content is bound to drop to the floor.

I disagree. In MoP (or maybe it was Cata, can't remember), I wanted to get into PVP and do some RBGs. I've always been in a PVE focused guild on a PVE server, so there weren't many options among friends or people that I knew. So I took to oqueue and openraid and started pugging. After a while, I had a big friends list of players that I liked and were around my skill level, and it reached the point that almost anytime I logged in I could find an RBG group from my friends list if I wanted. My guild at the time was 10 man, so we probably had 12-13 active raiders and some social members? So I had more friends and was more social during that time through pugging than I was by being in a guild.

People will get out of this game, from a social aspect, what they want. Being in a guild doesn't force anyone to socialize a whole lot, you can get by in a large social guild without interacting that much with people, or you could be in a guild with a few of your IRL friends. Neither adds much of a social tie to WoW (your IRL friends are already your friends, WoW doesn't change that much). And those same people who don't want to build ties can now just pug randomly in LFG and never have to be that social. Those people have always found a way to play the game they want to, and that's fine. Its not like back in TBC they were social butterflies. I think people who think that server communities back in Vanilla and TBC were just wonderful social communities either didn't play back then or really aren't remembering them very well.

[SL1200]

You should be able to pug everything except mythic. If you got good social skills ( I do not ) you could probably even pug mythic. I pugged everything on normal mode in the past expansions (post B.C), and I've pugged the heroic instances in wod. The lfd tool has been a real blessing for players who pug.

[Socialhealer]

5-7/13 mythic right now. Mythic pug clear is a given since its the last tier, but you'll have to wait a few months.

If you are a great player, with the right class/spec (obviously rdrood will have it easier than a ret), you will soon enough find a pug network of reliable leaders/group/players where you can raid at a pretty decent level.

The hardest part is when you are "behind the curve". Having a lowish ilvl will force you into average pug where you can hit or miss, delaying eventhe ilvl increase required to find a place in higher level pugs. Lacking achievement is also a weakness, you can still find archi groups easily now. But wait a few weeks, will be very hard without achievement.

gorefiend mythic pug? rofl, sure when everyone is on their ilvl 715 alt, with even higher main progress, strict raid setup, strict rules.

shit it's basically a hardcore guild run, nothing similar with pugging at all, it's all alts from super hardcore guilds.