New Expansion Warlock Speculation Thread

[Elise the Seeker]

While I personally preferred Shadowbolt as a filler, before the MoP revamp a lot of the feedback coming from Warlocks was about how much they hated using Shadowbolt and how they wanted a channeling spell. Granted a large part of it was due to how the talent trees were designed - Shadowbolt was a Destruction talent (and Destruction was the only spec that didn't use it). But there was also a lot of people that said they felt a channel spell was more appropriate. I have no idea what percentage prefers what - but there were a lot of warlocks who were happy to see Shadow Bolt get replaced by Malefic Grasp.

You're half correct.
We wanted Drain Life as a filler, which is a channeled spell.
What we didn't want, is our dot damage being mixed into our filler, which they did with malefic grasp.

- - - Updated - - -

I also want demonology warlocks to be purely about demons again.

[Deleted]

Demonology has been replaced with a brand new specc: Demon Hunter

[Skayth]

With demonology being talked about by @Watcher/Ion Hazzikostas during the recent Q and A, said to be needing a redesign, more than likely in the next expansion, I have come up with a design that fits Demonology Warlocks completely, while making it “a streamlined and less complex” rotation.

What was the idea of demonology warlocks through vanilla and burning crusade? To have the demons do your damage, and making them powerful. In Wrath of the Lich King, we saw the first iteration of Metamorphosis, and I believe, the first step away from being what a demonology warlock is all about, with all our damage done during Metamorphosis and during execution. Cataclysm saw the rise of rotating demons in and out for buffs, while being in melee, using breath and cremation (immolation aura original name.) Yet, we still felt like all our damage came during meta with combination of using Moonwell Chalice.

Mists of Pandaria came, and moved away from the demons doing our major damage. Not ragging on Xelnath, and the team that helped make Demonology, as it is a fun and complex spec, with when knowing when to enter metamorphosis and such. But, it became all about Metamorphosis. Yes, we were able to have wild imps spawning, which was fun with Unerring Vision of Lei Shen, but, it still only felt like I needed to get into metamorphosis in order to do any damage. This is true today, in Warlords of Draenor, with the usage of Chaos Wave spamming adds or single target with all the damage coming from Metamorphosis, with demonbolt negatively harming it.

My redesign is to make Demonology feel truly like the warlock it should have always been, a summoner of demons.

The first thing to add, is to make demonology warlocks able to summon 2 demons at once. What does this mean? More usage out of the rest of the demons. As it is, we only summon the fel guard or the wrathguard, or for t17 the doomguards for single target. With this implementation, you would be wielding two demons at once, and having two out makes us feel more powerful, and would not add to the complexity of it at all. We would still be using only one pet bar, as the Primary demon we summon will be the one using it, with the secondary demon acting like a service demon, but follows the Primary demon's “movement and assistance.”

Example: I summon my fel guard as my primary demon. I get all his abilities, like axe toss, felstorm, etc. with the ability to micromanage him. For my secondary demon, I summon my succubus. She follows the same movement, or move to as my fel guard's. She assists the fel guard on what ever enemy it is attacking, using all her abilities, as it, but if the warlock is attacked, she will auto seduce, similar to how she acts now in service. The Succubus acts like a service pet, with the only difference, being, you can micromanage her movement with your primary demon.

Similar to how service demons are on another summon ability, secondary demons will be another summoning ability, and will only activate after you have summoned your primary demon, to not mess up the ai.

Now, down to abilities.

Cutting of abilities begins with Metamorphosis and all its abilities. Metamorphosis is what made the rotation so complex, with the knowledge of knowing when to use what abilities and when, and being able to manage the demonic fury. I am cutting this completely, and its resource. While, it was a fun resource, for myself and other demonology warlock mains, meaning they play it even when its not the overpowered spec, it was burden over all. Since Wrath of the Lich King, all of the demonology warlock dps has been placed in metamorphosis or during execution. No more. No more steep declines in dps.

Corruption and Doom are now merged together as 1 spell, called Bane of Doom. It ticks faster, like corruption, but lasts as long as doom, and still has the ability to summon Wild Imps, but with a less likely chance, with the faster ticks. For PvP purposes, this Dot is undispellable, but it can be divine shielded off. Demonology warlocks, in this redesign, no longer have any instant damage beyond Hand of Gul'dan, which has a long cooldown, and this is mainly so they can have a known “Resource Generation” ability that will still be able to do minor damage.

Soul Fire becomes our filler now, cutting out Shadowbolt. No more molten core procs, no more wet noodle shadowbolt. Wild Imps no longer spawn from crits, but rather have a 20% chance of spawning from Soul Fire being cast, with bad RNG having the every 5th Soul Fire having a 100 % chance to spawn one, as a way to compensate. In execution phase, Soul Fire hits harder, is cast faster, has a 50% to spawn a Wild Imp, and also increases the “Resource Generation.”

This means, no more demonic calling passive and no more Wild Imps glyph.

Hand of Gul'dan no longer has charges, and now is on a cooldown. Having an initial AoE instant damage on all targets around the primary target, within the certain radius, it no longer applies a dot to them, only the primary target. Though Hand of Gul'dan has a secondary ability attached to it, by 100% chance at summoning 3 Wild Imps, similar to the trinket off of Archimonde in 6.2. Hand of Gul'dan is only supposed to help a little on cleaving fights, with two or three targets, as I find Destruction should be the two target master.

Hellfire was originally Rain of Fire, during the Mists of Pandaria beta, which I fully agreed with, as the developers stated over and over that they wanted range out of melee, which they should have kept too. But, Rain of First turned into Immolation Aura in Metamorphosis, making no sense beyond forcing Demonology Warlocks to take the then 500% passive Mannoroths Fury, to increase the AoE size to a ridiculous size and keep us out of melee. Now, we are stuck in range, spamming Chaos Wave for the burst. This made no sense, and was bad design.

Cut Hellfire, and replace it with Shadowbolt Volley. Warlocks no longer have a metamorphosis, to worry about damage increase, so they should now have a consistent AoE. It would work similar to how old Harvest Life worked, as channel or if you want to force it as a cast. Plus, Warlocks have been wanting this ability since we saw Doomlord Kazzak with it, or Kruul, if you watched were there for the pre bc even watching him slaughter Stormwind or Orgrimmar. So this is a perfect opportunity to add this to the game. Plus, no more melee Warlocks.

Cut Life Tap. This is an age old ability, that has no use now. It was from when we used our health as a secondary resource, to also dampen our “powerful” magic. As it is, there is no use to this ability beyond Nostalgia, and even then, as a player from vanilla, I hate this ability. I want my mana to come back, similar to destruction, like it should have done when we were depleting demonic fury from metamorphosis. Cut life tap.

So, we have streamlined most of demonology, to the end. Now for the new resource; Summoning Runes, able to stack up to 3 charges. This is what will make demonology warlocks feel like they are really the summoners and master of demons. Two new abilities are added for summoning rune usage.

The first ability is Dark Portal. This summons 3 random demons, close to the main target it they were summoned on, from the twisting nether to heed your call. Each demon is different in power, with the first being a lesser demon, such as hellhounds, fel hounds, fel stalkers, your basic non sentient demon, but all doing the same damage. The second demon would be a basic sentient, but a bit more powerful, demon, from a succubus to satyrs to wrathguards and fel guards, and while they are all different, it is simply aesthetically different, with all these demons doing more damage. Finally, we come to the power house of the summon, where we summon a random powerful demon to our beckoning, from Doomguards to Vanguards, to Terrorguards, and Infernals, with these guys doing most of the damage.

The second ability is Rain of Chaos. This ability is a fairly large radius AoE, where meteors rain down from the sky and crash against the mobs, with an initial damage and possible stun. Rising from the ashes, 2 or 3 infernals begin attacking and AoEing your enemies, similar to the 10 min cd of the Infernal as it is now.

Dark Portal is meant to be a single target spell, and Rain of Chaos is supposed to bean AoE or best judgment when to use. Each spell costs 1 Summoning Rune, has a 2 second cast time, and they both have a shared 10 second cooldown. The warlock starts the fight with only 1 Rune already complete, with the other 2 from trash degrading quickly. The Demons last only 20 seconds before they despawn. The Summoning Runes are generated by the Warlock's abilities, and its 2 demons and wild imps attacks, with good RnG having a rune built every 20 seconds, with during lust and/or execution, every 10 seconds.

The idea is, that you cannot stack the Summoning Runes to cap, as it has no use, since there is a 10 second cooldown, but you can store a Rune, and continue building another, if you know that you need the next summon for a burst. But with a 10 second cooldown, and the demons lasting 20 seconds, during execution and/or lust, you should be able to spit out more demons, combining them to do even more damage.

With Wild Imps, Two Permanent Demons, and Summoning a bunch of demons that last for 20 seconds through fights, this will make the Warlock feel like a true Warlock, with demons doing your bidding. For the PvE Raid environment, these temporary demons should be invisible to the rest of the raid, to clear up some clutter, and not make melee freak out when they see demons on top of them. With PvP, they will be seen, as it is similar to Stampede, in essence.

As for the Talents, they already need to be looked at *cough mannoroths fury cough*, but, for a specific few, Grimoire of Service will be changed to something like being an enrage, where your two permanent demons do more damage over a few seconds, similar to bestial wrath.

Demonbolt is changed to an Empowered Dark Portal, where powerful demons come out, but having its own side effects, maybe like increasing the cast time or something.

Demonic Servitude is made different. Yes, you can control two Doomguards, Infernals or Terrorguards, Abyssals similar to how it is now, if you wish, but, you also get a new summon by choosing this. If choose between Supremacy and the other two, of talents for lvl 75, You either get a Pitlord (supremacy) or Doomlord (the other two). Summoning either of these two demons makes it so you cannot summon a secondary demon, as it takes a lot of your will to control them, so you cannot summon that second demon. This will also give Demonology that Flavor for lore as being the spec that is the master of demons.

Finally, I come back to Metamorphosis, but not as what it is or before. Rather, this is more along the lines of me saying, we really do not need it at all, but if you are so die hard on making us keep it, then change the name of “Dark Soul: Knowledge” to “Metamorphosis: Dark Soul.” Instead of the purple cloud smoke that we get with the cool down, we simply transform into a demon. Just an aesthetic change.

-For the Rotation-
Single

Prepot
Dark Soul
Dark Portal
Doom
Hand of Gul'dan
Soul Fire

Then it simply becomes Doom>Dark Portal(with or without Dark Soul)>Hand of Gul'dan>Soul Fire

AoE

Rain of Chaos>Hand of Gul'dan>Shadowbolt Volley

*Due Note, numbers, cool downs, timers, %, etc... are no way currently balanced, and would need to be. As it is, this was for fun, and hopefully to be seen and be considered as a possible solution and redesign of Demonology. I fear that they are hung up on the Metamorphosis side of things and not the Demonologist and Summoner part of the class. With this, the spec can be easily balanced and there would no longer be the steep increases or decreases in Demonology dps.

This is how I would like to see the spec redesigned. I want to be that summoner of demons that I always wanted to be. I want those Archimonde spells from warcraft 3. I want to feel powerful and seem powerful.

Thank you for your time, and if you read this entire thing.

[jtth]

Skayth, I was thinking, "I don't want to give up this awesome, complex, challenging and engaging demo spec the way it is now for anything!" Then I read what you wrote, and though to myself,

"Yeah, I'll trade everything for that." I want to be a demonologist.

[Skayth]

Skayth, I was thinking, "I don't want to give up this awesome, complex, challenging and engaging demo spec the way it is now for anything!" Then I read what you wrote, and though to myself,

"Yeah, I'll trade everything for that." I want to be a demonologist.

I would too. With how they have been treating demonology this entire expansion, I hope to see a redesign on that scale.

As for the other specs... Affliction needs an aoe, an actual aoe. Seed of Corruption is shit. It needs better night fall procs and forgiveness. Destruction's Rain of Fire needs more damage added to it, while also allowing ember generation with 3 or more targets. Charred Remains is AIDS, and instead, a better ember generation needs to be incorportaed into the entire spec... and not rely on a single talent to be competitive.

[Namthorn]

For affliction, I feel that soul swap needs to not cost a soul shard for easier target switching, seed of corruption could also be buffed to not be pathetic. I'm in agreement with the sentiment that CR needs to go, it really dumbs down destro's play style and makes chaos bolt no longer this big thing you build up to, however aoe chaos bolt is awesome so I'd love to keep that part.(also buff RoF dmg so that its worth casting in aoe). I would like to see Infernal actually worth casting in 3+ target fights over doomguard, right now it does pants damage, also it needs to be tankier, for a T100 talent demon it really sucks. Demo I can't really comment on as I felt like it's playstyle was really fun aside from needing to be in melee to aoe. But I like the idea of being more focused around summoning demons and buffing them, maybe something like unholy DK's and their ghoul.

[Elise the Seeker]

I love reading Skayths demonlogy idea

[kushlol]

I really really wanna cast Shadowbolts again as Affliction.. spamming a channeled spell is so stupid.

Remove SoC and add shadowbolt volley...fixt

[kyoloco]

Demon hunters or we riot

[Dnusha]

Don't touch MoP demonology. Some people like complex specs and we have 2 specs for brain dead people already. There is a "boring as fuck" affliction but NO! lets revamp demonology! It's too complex for 12 years old children. Pathetic.

[Octa]

Don't touch MoP demonology. Some people like complex specs and we have 2 specs for brain dead people already. There is a "boring as fuck" affliction but NO! lets revamp demonology! It's too complex for 12 years old children. Pathetic.

You done with that temper tantrum yet?

[Dnusha]

You done with that temper tantrum yet?

Not really. Maybe a few more posts like this one, but you never know.

[Irian]

This is just skeleton work of the kind of stuff I'd really hope to see for Affliction, since I'm playing Affliction a lot recently...

Soul Shards as a resource are removed.

Haunt is now a 12 second cooldown. Initial damage reduced. Increases all damage over time you deal to the target by x%.

Epidemic, a new level 100 talent for Affliction, replaces Soulburn:Haunt. Contagion instantly causes all damage of time spells to tick at twice the normal speed.

Shadow Bolt replaces Drain Soul. Shadow bolt launches a shadowy bolt at the enemy, dealing damage and increasing the target's vulnerability to all damage dealt by the warlock. This new Shadow Bolt would be only a 2 second cast time to make it a bit less annoying.

Drain Soul returns as an execute. Drain Soul ticks every second and the damage is increased at below 25% health. Killing a target with Drain Soul reduces the cooldown of Dark Soul by 10 seconds increases the damage dealt by your next Haunt within 20 seconds by 100%.

Soul Swap is removed.

Summon Blighthound, a new level 100 talent, replaces Demonic Servitude. Blighthound would be an Affliction-only pet that replaces your Felhunter and retains all of its effects, deals purely shadow damage and inflicts your shadow vulnerability debuff on its melee attacks. It can also apply your damage-over-time spells to a target instantly on a minute cooldown.
They would be identical to the "Hellhound" creatures you see in HFC and Tanaan. The Grimoire of Supremacy equivalent is Hellhound.

Blightbolt, a level 90 talent, replaces Kil'jaeden's Cunning. Blightbolt launches a bolt of corruption at the target, dealing very light damage and extending the duration of Corruption and Unstable Affliction by 3 seconds. Instant cast.

Seed of Corruption now automatically applies Corruption again.

Mannoroth's Fury is renamed to Contagion. it is now a passive effect that increases the explosion radius of Seed of Corruption by 100% and causes it to also apply Unstable Affliction.




...In short, I want old Aff back. It was so much more fun and it really just played better than almost every other class in the game. It felt satisfying and I feel like it's drifted so far from what it used to be and what it ought to be.

I hope they do something like this because I really feel like there was a magic balance in old Aff where what it was good at it was excellent at and what it sucked at, it sucked hard. It led to a uniqueness that new Aff doesn't have, and a fun factor that it's seriously lacking.

[Jaman]

You're half correct.
We wanted Drain Life as a filler, which is a channeled spell.
What we didn't want, is our dot damage being mixed into our filler, which they did with malefic grasp.

I remember a lot of that discussion as well. But let's be honest - there was never any chance that we were going to get a filler spell that both did enough damage and healed us at the same time.

[Duckz0rs]

I remember a lot of that discussion as well. But let's be honest - there was never any chance that we were going to get a filler spell that both did enough damage and healed us at the same time.

Ironically, with Harvest Life it can replace shadow bolt as a filler for demo now...

EDIT: Great idea Skayth, really resonates with what I personally saw as the endgame flavour of demonology in vanilla and TBC. Was reluctant to give up meta due to nostalgia, but for that level of summoning? In a heartbeat.

[Stefanus]

We need more complexity for all classes and warlocks as well... Come on guys you aren't blockheads to want more pruning just to make the game more simpler... We need complexity and sense of progression for god sake... Since Wotlk my character has been nothing but regressing from one xpac to another. We are playing mmorpgs after all, not a moba...

[Fearsom1992]

Hey Skayth I hope blizzard takes your ideas for demo next expac because that is amazing and sounds so fun!

I put it into the suggestion tab in wow see if they take a look :P

[Singularity]

I want Meta to be a permanent stance for Demo locks like Shadowform for Spriests, God that would make me so happy. It would remove much of the complication that comes from abilities changing between caster and Meta form, stance dance, etc. I can dream..

Definitely this. Demon Form has one of the coolest models in the game. It would be a damn shame if they would put a cooldown on it. Been dreaming of a permanent demon form since the day Metamorphosis was introduced.

[Jessicka]

Definitely this. Demon Form has one of the coolest models in the game. It would be a damn shame if they would put a cooldown on it. Been dreaming of a permanent demon form since the day Metamorphosis was introduced.

It's an ancient low-res almost monochrome Illidan model, and you think it's one of the best? Okay

You'd also tear up the Mastery and resource system in favour of... an aesthetic change? Sorry, but the resource and Mastery system is precisely what makes the spec so versatile. All that needs cutting from the basics is Chaos Wave, HoG stacking, and Molten Core charges.

Level 90 and 100 talents need a look at, so the AoE can be sorted; that's not quite so basic.

[Deleted]

DOT classes are overpowered if they get most of their damage from DOTs because of multi-DOTting

Drain Soul and Haunt are "fixes" for that, your dots are relatively weak unless they are empowered by what are (mostly) single target boosts

Also solves the problem of DOTs facerolling movement fights (although they don't seem to have any issues with hunters doing that anyway)

I'd love to see them address affliction's mechanics problems of AOE and (to a lesser extent) cleave

But again you have the issue of DOT classes either being bad at that or tremendously overpowered, if you have any ability to throw a bunch of DOTs on multiple targets quickly

So affliction either

Stays weak at AOE
Gets a direct-damage AOE spell contrary to the spec
Gets an ability to multi-dot everything fast, which is wildly OP (and causes horrible problems in PVP)

I guess we'll get something half-arsed that has a mix of all three

For Demonology I'd really like them to break the mould and give warlocks a melee style spec available, something like near permanent Meta and hard-hitting demons, it doesn't have to be a tanking spec, just a mostly non-ranged one

But they probably won't

Don't care about destruction, if I wanted to be a fire mage I'd have rolled a mage lol