New Expansion Warlock Speculation Thread

[Baconeggcheese]

A little, I guess. Mana in Destruction right now fulfills one role only: going empty in time for a fully charged 4 embers & dark soul combo. It's well designed to teach newbies how the rotation works. The entire resource is pretty fucking pointless outside of that, especially with CR and everyone using google for specs anyways. So why the hell not go full chaotic corrupting fel energy that eats at your very essence to give you moar powah.

So giving Embers a bigger mechanical impact and making Destruction more of a interesting spec at the same time would be nice.

Destructions probably one of if not thee best designed spec in the game in regards to design at the moment. Its extremely intuitive which makes it easy to step into for new or beginner players, teaches you how to play it by actually showing you you're making mistakes through game play instead of needing to look up a guide, and then has a level of depth other specs (like aff and demo) don't have.

If anything its the spec that needs the least changing, with maybe some tiny QoL changes here and there. What your describing is part of what makes the spec well designed, not something you would want to get rid of.

One thing I'd like to see either changed or killed off is the Gateway. It was a nice idea, but the orginal version broke encounters and the new version feels pretty damn useless outside of Arena. It's a crutch at this point.

This is still used regularly in mythic encounters, there are a handful of fights that are basically instant wipes if gateways aren't clicked.

Also gief Gul'dan spike mode for Demo :P

That'd be our tier 17 set.

[Raenah]

There was a WoW panel at Dragon Con, attended by senior game designer Johnathan LeCraft, who mentioned that "most" specs are being overhauled, and some may even be renamed.

https://twitter.com/mmoc_events/stat...06173080907777

So it's entirely possible that post-revamp Demonology isn't even CALLED Demonology any more.

[WildcatTM]

There was a WoW panel at Dragon Con, attended by senior game designer Johnathan LeCraft, who mentioned that "most" specs are being overhauled, and some may even be renamed.

https://twitter.com/mmoc_events/stat...06173080907777

So it's entirely possible that post-revamp Demonology isn't even CALLED Demonology any more.

I'm pretty sure that's one of the specs that won't have a name change. I can't really see warlock specs changing names. Maybe destruction being called something with fel in it.

[PickleballAce]

make all our spells 'burn' ourselves (aka all spells cost HP), then turn Embers into a mechanic where we burn more %hp per filled ember.

They already tried exactly that in MoP Beta and the idea was more interesting on paper than in reality.

[Maleific]

Demonology will be renamed Demon Mastery and will shift the focus into pet/ guardian damage.

[toiletgecko]

I suspect none of the warlock specs will be renamed, that seems more like it was aimed at classes like Rogue. "Assassination" and "Combat" don't really tell you much, since all Rogues are assassins and every spec for every class in the game revolves around combat. They might also try to avoid having spec names reused, so either Shaman or Druid will get a new name for Restoration, and either Priest or Paladin will get a new name for Holy.

On topic, I actually wouldn't be surprised if Warlocks lose Mana entirely, and the Soul Shard/Ember/Demonic Fury mechanics become more prominent as a replacement. Right now Mana doesn't really provide any interesting gameplay except telling you when to Chaos Bolt, and giving us the thematically appropriate but boring Life Tap.

[Octa]

I suspect none of the warlock specs will be renamed, that seems more like it was aimed at classes like Rogue. "Assassination" and "Combat" don't really tell you much, since all Rogues are assassins and every spec for every class in the game revolves around combat. They might also try to avoid having spec names reused, so either Shaman or Druid will get a new name for Restoration, and either Priest or Paladin will get a new name for Holy.

On topic, I actually wouldn't be surprised if Warlocks lose Mana entirely, and the Soul Shard/Ember/Demonic Fury mechanics become more prominent as a replacement. Right now Mana doesn't really provide any interesting gameplay except telling you when to Chaos Bolt, and giving us the thematically appropriate but boring Life Tap.

Your mana tells you when to Chaos Bolt? Interesting.

[Kirroth]

I suspect none of the warlock specs will be renamed, that seems more like it was aimed at classes like Rogue. "Assassination" and "Combat" don't really tell you much, since all Rogues are assassins and every spec for every class in the game revolves around combat. They might also try to avoid having spec names reused, so either Shaman or Druid will get a new name for Restoration, and either Priest or Paladin will get a new name for Holy.

Add a change from Protection for Warrior or Paladin, and that's my suspicion too.

[Sylar Hao]

Devotion Paladin (all paladin specs ending in -tion seems cool for me)
Ice Mage
Defense Warrior
Warden Shaman
And they've pointed that Shadow may be Insanity Priests.

On topic, since Affliction and Destruction are based on 4 "stone-like" resources, I was thinking Demonology may get 4 Demonic Stones that the warlock spends to increase the number of summoned pets or increase the power of the current ones.

Somehow I'd like Grimoire of Service be a part of the kit, but in a different way, for example, if you shatter one stone and then hit the Summon Imp button and you summon Imp Swarm without sacrifying your current demon, or with Felguard it instantly resets his cd's, grants some extra damage and fills his energy bar to full instead of summoning another Felguard. For succubus you could summon a bound sister for her, like the ones in Black Temple, you can't hurt the main succubus without killing the bound one first. The felpuppy could go on a frenzy greatly increasing his attack speed and applying a dot with his bite ability. Finally the VW could restore some health and grant some defense for a few seconds. It would be a sustain dps vs burst dps, or utility for soloing and stuff in the case of the VW.

Also an idea I'd like to see is a "fusion" from the master and the minion as a CD, where the master get a bonus depending on the minion. I know this would be hard to balance as there would always be a prefered pet.

I hardly ever play affliction, so I can't say much about it, but I find SoC as an interesting AoE that's poorly implemented.

I mainly play Destro and I have to say that in only has 3 problems:
- Lack of procs baseline. Something to react to, I wish Backlash would be back but as part of the rotation and not as a proc when being hit.
- Rain of Fire. Such an awesome spell wasted...
- It's probably the less mobile spec in game.
The rest of the spec its just perfectly designed, imho.
Idea: New spell, Desintegrate: a channeled flamethrower-like spell only available when Backlash procs, deals damage every 0,5 sec, deals 20% more damage than incinerate, allows you to move while casting it and can't be interruped, it grants 1 emberbit plus 1 per critical tick. Backlash has 20 sec cd, starting when entering in combat (so you don't have it at start) and it's CD reduced by 1 sec every time immolate crits or you are hit by a direct damaging spell or ability (standing in fire and dots won't proc this).

And of course... the talents rows we all hate.

My 2 cents.

[Jessicka]

Devotion Paladin (all paladin specs ending in -tion seems cool for me)
Ice Mage
Defense Warrior
Warden Shaman
And they've pointed that Shadow may be Insanity Priests.

Probably something like this to get rid of the duplicate names; Protection, Restoration, Frost.

On topic, since Affliction and Destruction are based on 4 "stone-like" resources, I was thinking Demonology may get 4 Demonic Stones that the warlock spends to increase the number of summoned pets or increase the power of the current ones.

WHY YOU WANNA HOMOGENISE? STOP IT. STOP IT NOW. I'm serious, if ever a class design thought comes into your head with the words 'like other class/spec', when changing it from something that is already very distinct, just please dismiss it out of hand, it's automatically a bad idea.

Somehow I'd like Grimoire of Service be a part of the kit, but in a different way, for example, if you shatter one stone and then hit the Summon Imp button and you summon Imp Swarm without sacrifying your current demon, or with Felguard it instantly resets his cd's, grants some extra damage and fills his energy bar to full instead of summoning another Felguard. For succubus you could summon a bound sister for her, like the ones in Black Temple, you can't hurt the main succubus without killing the bound one first. The felpuppy could go on a frenzy greatly increasing his attack speed and applying a dot with his bite ability. Finally the VW could restore some health and grant some defense for a few seconds. It would be a sustain dps vs burst dps, or utility for soloing and stuff in the case of the VW.

Also an idea I'd like to see is a "fusion" from the master and the minion as a CD, where the master get a bonus depending on the minion. I know this would be hard to balance as there would always be a prefered pet.

When you go down the route of 'thing works like this with this pet, and this with this pet', one of them becomes the best bad things happen. It's a nice idea, but it simply doesn't work well; either because pet twisting or because 'I'm a Demonologist I wanna use my Felguard, not my Imp'.

I hardly ever play affliction, so I can't say much about it, but I find SoC as an interesting AoE that's poorly implemented.

Too many delays before stuff happens, it's simply not practical.

I mainly play Destro and I have to say that in only has 3 problems:
- Lack of procs baseline. Something to react to, I wish Backlash would be back but as part of the rotation and not as a proc when being hit.

I don't feel like this is a problem, there's always plenty of gear and enchants with procs on them to react to.

- Rain of Fire. Such an awesome spell wasted...
- It's probably the less mobile spec in game.

Definitely needs a look.

The rest of the spec its just perfectly designed, imho.
Idea: New spell, Desintegrate: a channeled flamethrower-like spell only available when Backlash procs, deals damage every 0,5 sec, deals 20% more damage than incinerate, allows you to move while casting it and can't be interruped, it grants 1 emberbit plus 1 per critical tick. Backlash has 20 sec cd, starting when entering in combat (so you don't have it at start) and it's CD reduced by 1 sec every time immolate crits or you are hit by a direct damaging spell or ability (standing in fire and dots won't proc this).

Sounds like a brutal version of Shadowflame, so bang a snare on it

I find Destruction's lack of mobility infuriating, as much as I try to minimise it, I don't play at a level where everyone else is also going to be minimising theirs, which in turn means on spread and stack mechanics, and from straight up playing safe, the amount of movement starts to become a bigger deal.

[Gaidax]

Destruction is a good well rounded spec (at the very least the CR version of it) with many tools that others can only dream of whether it is ranged cleave, excellent AoE or strong on-demand burst with no real downtime.

I think it's completely okay to have some weaknesses to it, such as mobility. The fact that it is doing very nicely right now just shows that despite this weakness, the upsides are good enough to cover for it, so "fixing" mobility would only inevitably result in nerfs to our other abilities and perks and between mobility and aforementioned stuff, I'd take the aforementioned stuff.

I hope Destruction will remain mostly untouched in Legion besides Rain of Fire change to make it more useful. Destruction is in a great state now as CR and maybe needs a bump as non-CR that's all.

[gruxxar]

Destruction is a good well rounded spec (at the very least the CR version of it) with many tools that others can only dream of whether it is ranged cleave, excellent AoE or strong on-demand burst with no real downtime.

I think it's completely okay to have some weaknesses to it, such as mobility. The fact that it is doing very nicely right now just shows that despite this weakness, the upsides are good enough to cover for it, so "fixing" mobility would only inevitably result in nerfs to our other abilities and perks and between mobility and aforementioned stuff, I'd take the aforementioned stuff.

I hope Destruction will remain mostly untouched in Legion besides Rain of Fire change to make it more useful. Destruction is in a great state now as CR and maybe needs a bump as non-CR that's all.

I wouldn't mind inc/conf hitting a bit harder though ... (not a fan of CR)

[Gaidax]

I wouldn't mind inc/conf hitting a bit harder though ... (not a fan of CR)

Well, that's where non-CR specs come in, they just need a small bump to be on the level and your suggestion might be all the bump needed there.

[kornoth]

I just love the mannoroth fight and the stones in there, and I think it would be great for the spec to go this way :

If demonic fury was replaced by 3 demonic stones. each stones empower one kind of demons, let's say the first stone empower the ranged demons, imps, and summon imp swarm( single target). The second stone empowers your melee demons and summons fel guard swarm ( used for aoe). And the third stone I don't have a idea yet but it will be good if it can be used for cleave situation.

You can only activate one stone at a time, no cooldowns, the game play will entirely plays on it. Each time you activate a stone you store power, and when one of the stones is at full power, you can activate all of them at the same time to empower/summon a bigger demon ( inferno/doomguard ) for the time it takes to te stone to loose it's power, let's say 30sec.
With Service, the imps will be replaced with doomguards, you summon 2 guards when the stone is activated instead of 5 imps. Inferno will replace fel guard, 3 inferno instead of 5 fel guards. And All the stones will summon a bigger demon for 30sec.

[Deleted]

I don't feel like this is a problem, there's always plenty of gear and enchants with procs on them to react to.

It's a big PvP problem. Mages get plenty of Instants and have insane mobility. Instant Chaos Bolt via Backdraft PvP talent would be nice.

Definitely needs a look.

RoF goes to Demo. F&B becomes our main thing with some tweaks.

I find Destruction's lack of mobility infuriating, as much as I try to minimise it, I don't play at a level where everyone else is also going to be minimising theirs, which in turn means on spread and stack mechanics, and from straight up playing safe, the amount of movement starts to become a bigger deal.

PvE it's annoying, because we had great mobility in KJC for a while. Then they gave that to Huntards, made us into the most boring design there is aka Turrets and still designed every fight to be mobile. Oh and they didn't give us Felflame back even when they noticed shit wasn't okay.

PvP it means that unless you got a pocket healer, the spec is unplayable. Which is horrible design. There were times we stood a chance 1v1 with melee. Now we can't even get away from bad ones.

Destruction is a good well rounded spec (at the very least the CR version of it) with many tools that others can only dream of whether it is ranged cleave, excellent AoE or strong on-demand burst with no real downtime.

I think it's completely okay to have some weaknesses to it, such as mobility. The fact that it is doing very nicely right now just shows that despite this weakness, the upsides are good enough to cover for it, so "fixing" mobility would only inevitably result in nerfs to our other abilities and perks and between mobility and aforementioned stuff, I'd take the aforementioned stuff.

I hope Destruction will remain mostly untouched in Legion besides Rain of Fire change to make it more useful. Destruction is in a great state now as CR and maybe needs a bump as non-CR that's all.

Actually, a bunch of classes have readily access to reliable cleave, AoE and on-demand burst. Cooldown is only slightly higher. Some even lower (Warrior with their stupid as fuck Rage CD reduction. Bladestorm every 35s, Stormbolt every 17s, lel).

Destruction is near unplayable in PvP right now with our lack of mobility. All Melee got shittons of gap closers. We need some mobility back - or they need to whack Mages in the dick and nerf melee, which I doubt they'll do. We need to get back into the PvP arms race there.

Also the fact that CR is mandatory to make the spec go smoothly means that something is slightly wrong. So I fully expect new 100 Talents and they roll the current spec exlusive ones in baseline or move them into a Spec (Demo might end up with Demonic Servitude as their exclusive thing and Demonbolt might go away - or Soulfire goes to the Shadowbolt slot, Shadowbolt to Affli and Demonbolt is the new Soulfire). I can't see them leaving some of the current talents for all classes in, as it goes against their idea of meaningful choice for it.

The easiest way to do some mobility stuff would be to give us another Ember consumption that can be used on the move (new Felflame version with some powerful DoT effect so we can bring it into the current rotation?) and Shadowflame back baseline as CC. They can probably roll some of that mobility into the new PvP Talent system. But it'd then become mandatory to pick in most cases. Which would again go against meaningful choice.


Generally there's 3 big things we need on Destruction for Legion:
- PvP viability
- Rotation decision making/depth
- Higher mobility to compete with the current arms race in PvP and some mobility to be less dead weight in PvE.


Also, I'm fully prepared for getting buffs in 7.0 that then get cut down over multiple mini patches into 7.1 :P

[Jessicka]

Destruction is a good well rounded spec (at the very least the CR version of it) with many tools that others can only dream of whether it is ranged cleave, excellent AoE or strong on-demand burst with no real downtime.

I think it's completely okay to have some weaknesses to it, such as mobility. The fact that it is doing very nicely right now just shows that despite this weakness, the upsides are good enough to cover for it, so "fixing" mobility would only inevitably result in nerfs to our other abilities and perks and between mobility and aforementioned stuff, I'd take the aforementioned stuff.

I hope Destruction will remain mostly untouched in Legion besides Rain of Fire change to make it more useful. Destruction is in a great state now as CR and maybe needs a bump as non-CR that's all.

It's okay to have a weakness, if that weakness doesn't mean it plays like ass; or in this case stops you playing.

I think the "the numbers are okay, so it must be okay" argument went out the window with Demonology in Cataclysm - the numbers were okay, but it certainly wasn't an entirely okay playstyle. Almost every other spec has strengths and weaknesses that aren't quite so binary as 'amazing at this, but can't do that'.

[Gaidax]

It's okay to have a weakness, if that weakness doesn't mean it plays like ass; or in this case stops you playing.

I think the "the numbers are okay, so it must be okay" argument went out the window with Demonology in Cataclysm - the numbers were okay, but it certainly wasn't an entirely okay playstyle. Almost every other spec has strengths and weaknesses that aren't quite so binary as 'amazing at this, but can't do that'.

Let's not compare something that was broken to something that works fine? Destruction with CR is fine, Destruction without CR needs a pure numbers buff and RoF fix, that's all. Mechanically, Destruction is extremely strong - you have just about any tool and damage application method ranged damage dealer can wish for in the raids and the only literal weakness is the said mobility, that's all.

The whole mobility thing people keep whining about is so insignificant in PvE, that I am glad THIS is our balancing factor. PvP on the other hand can be addressed by PvP-only talents that are incoming, who knows there might be some major help with that there.

Ultimately yes, if the numbers are okay, then this will be ok for Destruction, because it is a very clean and powerful spec, of all warlock specs it's probably the only one that truly can be left alone besides small touch up here and there (RoF fix and Incinerate/Conflag bump, which will help non-CR builds).

[Kithelle]

no it's not, especially not when it buffs the dot dmg and debuffs the target in a debuff spec

Then why not just change Haunt so it's Affliction's filler spell?

Back on topic, I'm sure it's obvious I dream of controlling dual demons permanently!

[Zerach8]

CR was the worst thing that happened to this spec...i used to enjoy destro a lot, now that CR is here its hard to play it and i get less enjoyment out of it every day... The design of it was really good in SoO where u built up resources so you could do insane damage when u needed to or during procs, there is no management whatsoever nowadays, u can regen full 4 embers in 10 seconds if u are lucky, u dont get punished for not managing backdraft or using your embers whenever u want, u had to worry about using F&B and not running out of embers...the spec was 10 times more fun when we had to worry about things like that than how much will u move and when are u going to cast havoc... Dull playstyle and no spec specific decisionmaking... Chaos bolt spamming can go and never return imo...and dont even want to start on affl.

I really dont understand what made blizzard change the specs so much when simple Snapshotting removal and KJC change was more than enough to reduce the power of the specs...and than they went and ruined it even further with SB:H and CR. Really hope they make some changes that will improve the way the specs play, would like to go back to enjoying my warlock

[Deleted]

CR was the worst thing that happened to this spec...i used to enjoy destro a lot, now that CR is here its hard to play it and i get less enjoyment out of it every day... The design of it was really good in SoO where u built up resources so you could do insane damage when u needed to or during procs, there is no management whatsoever nowadays, u can regen full 4 embers in 10 seconds if u are lucky, u dont get punished for not managing backdraft or using your embers whenever u want, u had to worry about using F&B and not running out of embers...the spec was 10 times more fun when we had to worry about things like that than how much will u move and when are u going to cast havoc... Dull playstyle and no spec specific decisionmaking... Chaos bolt spamming can go and never return imo...and dont even want to start on affl.

I really dont understand what made blizzard change the specs so much when simple Snapshotting removal and KJC change was more than enough to reduce the power of the specs...and than they went and ruined it even further with SB:H and CR. Really hope they make some changes that will improve the way the specs play, would like to go back to enjoying my warlock

They designed mandatory talent choices, something that they said they didn't want to have anymore. So I fully expect them to cut these talents and roll them in baseline and make something new in their place that can compete with Cataclysm as a choice. Demonic Servitude is prob. gonna get rolled into the new Demo with some touch-ups to the pets to make their power level a viable choice.

I just hope they do not try cut GoSac again. I hate my pets at this point when I don't need them to do a job for me. Constant vision blocking bastards inside the Garrison.