About when will subt surpass assass?

[Sunsun1g]

Hi!
Recently found some love for my alt rogue, and i very much so enjoy maximizing stuff when i get at it.
For ST im unsure if i should go with subt or assass. I found assass ridiculously easy to play while also giving quite decent numbers, but looking at logs, subt pulls ahead on all fights that don't benefits combat, so I'm thinking of giving it a go. Tried it last night, but my inexperience in the specc placed me lower on dps than assass. Is it also a gear thing? currently 693 (/wow/en/character/terokkar/Sunrog/simple) and pretty much stuck with same gear on all speccs. Tried to optimize for assass/subt (currently ench/gem for subt) but the acquiring of gear is rather sporadic. Are there any reason for a alt soon going hc brf in our altruns to go subt over assass? Are there set tier/trinket req's for subt to pull ahead?

Also, on a side note: If anyone got a WA to show how long vanish last, that'd be great Need to optimize the last ambush before backstab-spam gets real

[Deleted]

Hi!
Recently found some love for my alt rogue, and i very much so enjoy maximizing stuff when i get at it.
For ST im unsure if i should go with subt or assass. I found assass ridiculously easy to play while also giving quite decent numbers, but looking at logs, subt pulls ahead on all fights that don't benefits combat, so I'm thinking of giving it a go. Tried it last night, but my inexperience in the specc placed me lower on dps than assass. Is it also a gear thing? currently 693 (/wow/en/character/terokkar/Sunrog/simple) and pretty much stuck with same gear on all speccs. Tried to optimize for assass/subt (currently ench/gem for subt) but the acquiring of gear is rather sporadic. Are there any reason for a alt soon going hc brf in our altruns to go subt over assass? Are there set tier/trinket req's for subt to pull ahead?

Also, on a side note: If anyone got a WA to show how long vanish last, that'd be great Need to optimize the last ambush before backstab-spam gets real

With 4pc and Archimonde Trinket Subtlety will pull ahead. Soul Capacitor is also nice to have. The more gear you get the better Subtlety becomes

[Sunsun1g]

Not sure if you saw my gear, but you reckon i should just stay assass till (insert your qualified ilvl-guess here) ?

[Deleted]

its not really a 100% item lvl... the trinket and the set bonus alone does does it all, i think...

[shaithis]

You have the gear for Subt, keep practicing. T18 and trinkets only compound the advantage it currently has over Assn at that gear level. If in doubt, run a few sims, esp. to determine when to break t17 4pc. Replace that blackiron trigger ASAP.

[Kazzai]

Dl simc and upload ur armory (it's easier than you think)
At around 700ilvl with 2pc is when i simmed 2k dps over assass and was when i made my transition to sub.

[Ohmygonzo]

Fewest fights in HFC currently favor Sub over the other 2 specs. Especially Archimonde, since you have to switch targets a lot, Mutilate has advantages there, and you have loads of executes during the fight ( Deathcaller / Doomfire / Nether banish add / Infernals ).
Only two fights I would go Sub are just the pure single target fights, but the difference, is...
Well, lets put it this way, you should play mutilate on the last boss, and you should play combat on aoe fights, that will put you in a position, where you need to visit your trainer often

[Deleted]

Fewest fights in HFC currently favor Sub over the other 2 specs. Especially Archimonde, since you have to switch targets a lot, Mutilate has advantages there, and you have loads of executes during the fight ( Deathcaller / Doomfire / Nether banish add / Infernals ).
Only two fights I would go Sub are just the pure single target fights, but the difference, is...
Well, lets put it this way, you should play mutilate on the last boss, and you should play combat on aoe fights, that will put you in a position, where you need to visit your trainer often

The majority of fights in HFC actually favour Subtlety because of its superior burst to kill priority targets. On Archimonde the execute damage on those adds is pointless as they have to die quickly, so the burst from a Subtlety rogue means more than pointless execute damage.

The only single target fight you may want to play Assassination on progression is Gorefiend mythic, after that it's better to go Subtlety.

[Rosvall]

Fewest fights in HFC currently favor Sub over the other 2 specs. Especially Archimonde, since you have to switch targets a lot, Mutilate has advantages there, and you have loads of executes during the fight ( Deathcaller / Doomfire / Nether banish add / Infernals ).
Only two fights I would go Sub are just the pure single target fights, but the difference, is...
Well, lets put it this way, you should play mutilate on the last boss, and you should play combat on aoe fights, that will put you in a position, where you need to visit your trainer often

Hey,

First off, you're quite correct. Subtlety will not always outdps assassination on fights such as that. But what there is to realize is that the extra damage you gain is on the boss, and not on the adds. Sub is far superiour for add killing when the adds have medium to large amount of health. Holding either Shadow Dance or Vanish for the switch and 5cp for instantly rupturing will enable you to deal more damage than pretty much any other class. Especially on a fight such as Archimonde where you switch quite often but not excessively often.

Assassination will not have their cooldowns up for the switches. And there's really nothing that beats subtlety burst. So your reasoning is a bit flawed unless the case is that boss damage is more important than add survival length. And if that is the case, you should probably just keep being sub and sitting on boss and having another class deal the damage to the adds.

The same reasoning I feel applies to combat. Where a lot of the fights where combat shines, it really only shines due to dealing damage to adds that don't really need to die quickly. And thus really just wasting dps/stealing it from others who can cleave without losing ST damage, or in cases even gaining ST damage. Some exceptions here are fights where there are multiple adds of importance, mainly Xul'Horac and to some extent Mannoroth in certain set ups.