The fates of the Warlords in this expansion- Why like this?

[Florena]

I said before the expansion came out the warlords would be like the sha. Turns out I was half right I guess since Grom survived and only Garrosh died in leveling content.

[Arrashi]

I said before the expansion came out the warlords would be like the sha. Turns out I was half right I guess since Grom survived and only Garrosh died in leveling content.

There is another big diffrence - sha were at least threat to pandas. Warlords weren't threat to anyone.

[Tatzi]

Let's go trough all the warlords:
Durotan had barely any storyline. He was the leader in Frostfire Ridge. Also he was nice enough to show up during the final cinematic. That's it? Did he even have any lore or character progression in Hellfire?

Ner'zhul is one of the most important and mighty warlords. Did he really die at lvl 92 in that cinematic? When he was "vanishing" I thought he was teleporting to another place? Yet now, people say he is dead? You know your storytelling is good when people don't even realize one of your main characters die.

Gul'Dan appeared weak in the cinematic, but luckily showed some strength throughout the game. Yet, Archimonde sent him trought the portal so we could not even fight him. How epic...

Grommash was the supposed "last boss". Can't wait to fight the guy that created the Iron Horde, yes? All we got was the guy suddenly joining our horde. The lore on him joining us is incredibly cheesy and unrealistic.

Blackhand got his own raid and got to be the last boss of it. It was a great fight. The only warlord with a worthy epic death.

Kargath Bladefist. Oh boy, that little story video we got of him escaping from the ogres. Epic. This guy is a badass. What do we get? He somehow manage to be placed inside an ogre raid (from wich he escaped, why would he go back to them?) as the FIRST BOSS IN THE FIRST RAID. This means he was the easiest raid boss of all in the entire expansion. How utterly disapointing.

Kilrogg Deadeye got an allright storyline and death. Though, he is supposed to be the weakest of all the warlords right? Meh, I guess it was OK, but certainly not epic.

This leaves us with an expansion where 2 of the warlords joins us (Durotan and Grommash), 1 escapee (Gul'Dan), 2 abysmally horrible and unepic deaths (Kargath and Ner'zhul), 1 OK death (Kilrogg), and 1 epic death (Blackhand).
An expansion where we I expected 6 epic deaths and 1 joining us. (or at least Grommash joining us in a way that was epic and not pathetic).
That is what I call wasted potential.

Am I the only one feeling this way?

I feel like you didn't even do any of the quests.

Durotan was a huge part of Frostfire Ridge, but he also helped you set up outposts in Talador and Gorgrond. He's also in charge of the Horde assault in Tanaan, so ofcourse he's in HFC.

Ner'zhul was the final boss of the Shadowmoon Burial Grounds dungeon. While, I agree he should have had some better development, it's like you ignore the fact that we did kill him in a dungeon.

Gul'Dan is a not someone who has EVER fought fair. He's clever as all hell and would never be a raid boss like this. He's meant to be away from the action and manipulating events from the shadows. If he WERE a raid boss, I would be disappointed.

Grommash joining us, was kind of weak and forced. But, I'd take him with us, over just letting him go or killing him. That's one more dude who hates Gul'dan and the Legion as much as us. May as well use him. Being all prissy with him though, is strrange.

Blackhand, totally agree with you there.

Kargath has a reason to be there and it is explained in Nagrand quests and dialogue. The Ogres and the Iron Horde have a tentative alliance and Kargath, since he knows the Ogres, is there as the closest thing to an ambassador as possible. Making him the first boss and making him that easy, is very lame.

Kilrogg was fine. I didn't like the whole Legion event, but whatever. I think he would have been better as one of the last uncorrupted orcs.

While, of course many of this could have been better, I think you're being far too harsh. Not everything has to be a hugely, world-changingly epic thing. They may be legendary in Orc culture, but they're still orcs. And orcs can die like anything else.

[Warcite]

While I do agree with your over all point (mainly that these are THE orc Cheiftens), I do feel like there were some pretty decent stories. In terms of Gul'Dan, I was not really expecting to fight him this expansion. I think a lot of people knew he would survive and be used to further the plot of this game, but Gul'Dan was never really a fighter (he mainly had others do the fighting for him).

But yea...I wish there was more story and depth to some of these characters.

[therealstegblob]

There is another big diffrence - sha were at least threat to pandas. Warlords weren't threat to anyone.

Stop making bad posts.

Anyways;

As others have said, Kargath was meant to live on after his boss fight. Supposedly, he and Cho'gall were originally meant to run off and betray Gul'dan (little known fact: Kargath is part of the inner Shadow Council). Originally in the first few weeks of beta, he ran off and left behind his Bladefist, which is what you looted. In fact, you can still see a trace of this if you look at his dead model, it doesn't have the Bladefist on it and he's bleeding from the wrist.

Still a very huge let down. They barely utilized many of the characters at all which is almost criminal considering the entire reason they made WoD was to show off these very characters. It needed to be a far more story-oriented expansion, but they fucked it up like usual. Still a decent expansion and I look forward to seeing if they can clean up their act in the next one.

[Eazy]

There should be at least a one big raid with every of the warlord(maybe not Durotan), why? Because why not.

[sam86]

Stop making bad posts.

And what is bad in it? We really only needed to go get the shard and leave, we didn't even need to kill Garrosh or a single plant, just get shard and bye bye no more connection
This entire 'expansion' is totally useless and not related to us in anyway, there is infinity amount of Dreanor, we will go to each one to 'save' them out of good heart and leave our own?

[Thelxi]

They could all fall over dead for all I care. They are orcs from an alternate reality.

[therealstegblob]

And what is bad in it? We really only needed to go get the shard and leave, we didn't even need to kill Garrosh or a single plant, just get shard and bye bye no more connection
This entire 'expansion' is totally useless and not related to us in anyway, there is infinity amount of Dreanor, we will go to each one to 'save' them out of good heart and leave our own?

What are you talking about lol.

The Iron Horde of Draenor had Garrosh meddling with the natural time events in order to send the original and fully united Orcish Horde to our Azeroth. We don't even know if there are "countless" realities or anything like that, and I have no fucking clue what you keep talking about regarding "the shard".

The first invasion of the Orcs nearly wiped out all other civilization on Azeroth, it was only stopped when more than half of the Horde (who wasn't even in its full numbers to begin with) split to stop Gul'dan's betrayal. The whole Orcish Horde very will could have/possibly would have more or less either toppled the civilizations of Azeorth or at the very least killed hundreds of thousands of people before they were stopped. Just because the expansion didn't do the best job of conveying them as a serious threat doesn't mean they weren't.

[Arrashi]

What are you talking about lol.

The Iron Horde of Draenor had Garrosh meddling with the natural time events in order to send the original and fully united Orcish Horde to our Azeroth. We don't even know if there are "countless" realities or anything like that, and I have no fucking clue what you keep talking about regarding "the shard".

The first invasion of the Orcs nearly wiped out all other civilization on Azeroth, it was only stopped when more than half of the Horde (who wasn't even in its full numbers to begin with) split to stop Gul'dan's betrayal. The whole Orcish Horde very will could have/possibly would have more or less either toppled the civilizations of Azeorth or at the very least killed hundreds of thousands of people before they were stopped. Just because the expansion didn't do the best job of conveying them as a serious threat doesn't mean they weren't.

Let's see, we wiped iron horde without suffering ANY major defeat after crossing dark portal despite:
- Them outnumbering us like 50 to 1.
- Fighting on their turf.
- Multiple enemy factions (botani, arrakoa, ogres) fighting us in the same time.
- Them having said "technical adventage"
- Us being more or less stranded on draenor making supply lines much harder.

Let's face it, iron horde dealt any damage in blasted lands only because of suprise element. If we just went on defensive on azeroth, they would be nothing more than annoyance we would send level 20 players to deal with.

[therealstegblob]

Let's see, we wiped iron horde without suffering ANY major defeat after crossing dark portal despite:
- Them outnumbering us like 50 to 1.
- Fighting on their turf.
- Multiple enemy factions (botani, arrakoa, ogres) fighting us in the same time.
- Them having said "technical adventage"
- Us being more or less stranded on draenor making supply lines much harder.

Let's face it, iron horde dealt any damage in blasted lands only because of suprise element. If we just went on defensive on azeroth, they would be nothing more than annoyance we would send level 20 players to deal with.

You just described pretty much every single "threat" to the game ever with the exception of Deathwing who at least wrecked Azeroth before we totally defeated him.

Each and every time with only minor exceptions here and there do we totally beat the bad guys at every single turn. By your logic, even Arthas was hardly a threat.

[Arrashi]

You just described pretty much every single "threat" to the game ever with the exception of Deathwing who at least wrecked Azeroth before we totally defeated him.

Each and every time with only minor exceptions here and there do we totally beat the bad guys at every single turn. By your logic, even Arthas was hardly a threat.

The diffrence is that arthas was faced much earlier, had much better gimmick and as seen in for instance broken front and few other places, can inflict pain.

Warlords on the other hands...i dunno, they are stronk and have axes. And after old gods, legions of undead and dragon made out of lava, few random orcs sure as hell are intimidating.

[therealstegblob]

The diffrence is that arthas was faced much earlier, had much better gimmick and as seen in for instance broken front and few other places, can inflict pain.

Warlords on the other hands...i dunno, they are stronk and have axes. And after old gods, legions of undead and dragon made out of lava, few random orcs sure as hell are intimidating.

The orcs completely obliterated most of Shattrath city, killing thousands of Draenei in Talador. That alone is more than the Scourge and Arthas ever did during WotLK.

In the scope of things, an Orc army might seem tame compared to Old Gods and Spooky Monsters and stuff, and to be fair that's because it sort of is. We should have seen the Iron Horde do a little something more to help express that, although maybe they're not the Scourge or Deathwing or an Old God, but they pose a serious risk to the entire universe in the same vain as the Legion.

You have to remember their whole plan (both the original main universe Horde and this one) is to not just conquer Draenor and Azeroth, but pretty much any planet they can ever manage to reach. It's a bit akin to fighting off a guy who has a shotgun and then encountering one that just has a handgun and saying "HAHA WHAT? THIS ISN'T EVEN A THREAT..." and then he shoots you in the head.

[therealstegblob]

Stop making bad posts.

They were utilised only as far as they were needed. Considering the expansion was just a thumbnail gallery of Orcs they did a sufficient job at that aspect, the problem is the expansion itself being forced, unlikeable and difficult if not impossible to care about the outcome. There was no feeling of a threat to the world that Wrath and Cata offered, nor even a half-assed story like MoP, it was just a 'hey what if' and it sucked.

That all sounds like your own opinion. I found the Iron Horde to be pretty fun and they seemed like a legitimate enough threat. Sure, it WAS all enclosed in a sort of silly "what if" time travel bullshitery thing, but hey, whatever. I'm sure the next expansion will be about Elves and you won't have such a reason to whine on the forums.

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Stop making bad posts. no it wasn't.

Yes it was? Name one instance in WotLK where the Scourge even did something as massive as the sacking of Shattarath. Zul'Drak is pretty comparable, they all but wiped out the weakened Troll Empire which was a pretty grizzly feat, so I guess to be fair the Scourge did at least as much as the Iron Horde.

How about you stop making bad posts?

[Karrosene]

Well with Kargoth if you read the mini story you would be able to take a pretty good guess into why he was there. And just because he was the first boss dosent make him pathetic lore wise. The survivors will most likely be returning, You do not progress an entire character in 1 chapter. You do it over several chapters or perhaps books/seasons/expansions.

[Dreknar20]

Am I the only one feeling this way?

well the expansion only has 2 tiers.......

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There was no feeling of a threat to the world that Wrath and Cata offered, nor even a half-assed story like MoP, it was just a 'hey what if' and it sucked.

People always keep saying that these days, yet we stomp those out just as easily as any other enemy.
Like before Hellfire people were saying "Well Gul'dan/Legion/Fel are totally a greater threat"..........yet we defeat them just as 'easily' as we did the Iron Horde.

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In the scope of things, an Orc army might seem tame compared to Old Gods and Spooky Monsters and stuff

pretty much the jist of why I think people keep saying that.
WoW is a fantasy game and the Iron Horde lack more of the magic/fantasy/mystical elements that other enemies had, so are less 'interesting'

[Dreknar20]

Gameplay =/= storywise.

right........and story-wise where does it say the campaign was a piece of cake?

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It just doesn't show when you are raiding

and I cant say the same why?

[PuppetShowJustice]

I never expected all the individual Warlords to have good moments but I'm especially disappointed that the plotline leading into the next expansion is yet another example of "A lone orc manages to escape to cause more trouble after his forces are defeated."

[therealstegblob]

Gameplay =/= storywise. The campaign against the Lich King was the costliest, most devastating threat Azeroth dealt with since the Third War. massive casualties were suffered from it. It just doesn't show when you are raiding, how could it unless every wiped raid turned into more scourge abominations?

It was only said as much after the expansion, and even then only in a novel. We have no idea what the lorical cost of this war was. So far, all we know was that it was a massive suicide affront where hundreds of people sacrificed themselves.

[sam86]

What are you talking about lol.

The Iron Horde of Draenor had Garrosh meddling with the natural time events in order to send the original and fully united Orcish Horde to our Azeroth. We don't even know if there are "countless" realities or anything like that, and I have no fucking clue what you keep talking about regarding "the shard".

The first invasion of the Orcs nearly wiped out all other civilization on Azeroth, it was only stopped when more than half of the Horde (who wasn't even in its full numbers to begin with) split to stop Gul'dan's betrayal. The whole Orcish Horde very will could have/possibly would have more or less either toppled the civilizations of Azeorth or at the very least killed hundreds of thousands of people before they were stopped. Just because the expansion didn't do the best job of conveying them as a serious threat doesn't mean they weren't.

Heh
The 'shard' that Garrosh used to kill the bronze dragon who helped him time travel, that shard that connected the 2 worlds
And that bronze dragon stated that there are infinite amount of timelines, where he was planning to recruit infinite amount of armies to battle the BL, how exactly you don't know that?