WoW:Legion Rogue Discussion

[Feali]

Why is the Shadow Clone dealing Fire damage when it explodes?

[Wow]

HOWEVER those traits, hot DAMN those traits. gets 20 sec added onto shadow blades...i forget what was special on outlaw, but all i could think each time was DAMN DAMN DAMN.

Honestly that seems really bad since the base ability is trash until you can fully fill this out. The other two specs have vendetta and ar talents but the base abilities aren't terrible like this.

Kind of like how we have to talent out getting shadow step's cd back to normal..

[Deleted]

Why is the Shadow Clone dealing Fire damage when it explodes?

Have you ever seen a explosion that didnt involve fire omg wheres ur realism.

Agreed, its stupid, throwing a fire mechanic into a spec that's primarily shadow.

[kindath]

I still find it super ironic that Artifact perks are basically the same thing as the spec specific talent trees that they decided they wanted to take out of the game three expansions ago.

[Mafic]

I still find it super ironic that Artifact perks are basically the same thing as the spec specific talent trees that they decided they wanted to take out of the game three expansions ago.

True.

I think the MoP talent revamp is seen as something more of GC brain child. There is a new direction and even the new Legion talents have a lot more passives along with the artifact talent trees. I suppose what Blizz realized is that gradual progresson of power is better through talent than through crazy scaling of gear.

Still, the problem is that min/max the passives will still happen.

[Kuroii]

Assassination
Initial Trait
Grasp of Gul'dan (Rank 1) - When you Mutilate a target, the shadowy essence of Gul'dan has a chance to lash out of your daggers and latch onto your target, dealing 0 damage and healing you for that amount every 5 for 10 sec.
Major Traits
From the Shadows (Rank 1) - When you declare your Vendetta target, an image of Garona Halforcen will manifest itself and barrage the target with poisoned daggers.
Bag of Tricks (Rank 1) - When you Envenom a target, you have a chance to smash a giant vial of poison at the target's location, creating a pool of acidic death that deals 0% damage to all enemies within it.
Blood of the Assassinated (Rank 1) - Rupture has a chance to infect your target with the blood of enemies slain by your daggers for until cancelled. While the target has infected blood, 0% of all damage you deal to it will be stored up and unleashed when the blood corruption ends.
Minor Traits
Toxic Blades (Rank 3) - Envenom damage increased by 13%.
Serrated Edge (Rank 3) - Mutilate damage increased by 13%.
Master Alchemist (Rank 3) - Crimson Vial restores an additional 20% of your maximum health over 1 sec.
Embrace the Shadows (Rank 3) - Damage taken reduced by 13%.
Balanced Blades (Rank 3) - Mutilate Energy cost reduced by 13.
Gushing Wound (Rank 3) - Rupture damage increased by 13%.
Shadow Walker (Rank 3) - Reduce the cooldown of Shadowstep by 8 sec.
Master Assassin (Rank 3) - Reduce the cooldown of Vendetta by 40 sec.
Poison Knives (Rank 3) - Fan of Knives causes any targets hit with your Deadly Poison to take 40% of the remaining Deadly Poison damage instantly.
Urge to Kill (Rank 1) - Activating Vendetta refills all of your Energy.
Shadow Swiftness (Rank 1) - When you use Shadowstep, the cooldown of Sprint is reset.
Surge of Toxins (Rank 1) - Offensive finishing moves increase Poison damage you deal to the target by 0%for 5 sec.

Outlaw
Initial Trait
Curse of the Dreadblades (Rank 1) - Invoke the Curse of the Dreadblades, causing each Saber Slash to fill your combo points, however the Dreadblades will consume 0% of your remaining health when using a finishing move for the next 12 sec.
Major Traits
Blunderbuss (Rank 1) - When you perform a second strike with Saber Slash, your next Pistol Shot will shoot a ball of shrapnel at the target, dealing greatly increased damage.
Greed (Rank 1) - When you use Run Through on a target, the greed of the Dreadblades will sometimes cause you to perform an additional attack to all enemies within 0 yards around you causing [ 2.000 * 0% of weapon damage ] damage that heals for 0% of your maximum health per target hit.
Blurred Time (Rank 1) - While Adrenaline Rush is active, all of your abilities recharge 0% faster.
Minor Traits
Deception (Rank 1) - Sprint automatically activates Feint.
Hidden Blade (Rank 1) - When you successfully Ambush a target, your next Saber Slash will be guaranteed to strike a second time.
Blademaster (Rank 1) - While Riposte is active, all parried attacks generate a combo point.
Cursed Edges (Rank 3) - Saber Slash damage increased by 13%.
Blade Dancer (Rank 3) - Reduces the energy regeneration penalty of Blade Flurry by 13%.
Fate's Thirst (Rank 3) - Increases the damage of Run Through by 13%.
Cursed Leather (Rank 3) - Damage taken reduced by 13%.
Gunslinger (Rank 3) - Pistol Shot has a 13% increased critical strike chance.

Fatebringer (Rank 3) - Reduce the Energy cost of your finishing moves by 8.
Fortune Strikes (Rank 3) - Combat Potency generates 4 additional Energy.

Ghostly Shell (Rank 3) - When you use Cloak of Shadows, the Dreadblades will heal you for 8% of your maximum health for each effect immediately cleared as well as any effects resisted during its duration.
Fortune's Boon (Rank 3) - Reduces the cooldown of Adrenaline Rush by 40 sec.

Subtlety
Initial Trait
Withering Bite (Rank 1) - Your attacks apply Withering Bite, dealing 0 Shadow damage with a chance to trigger Shadow Techniques. Bites that trigger Shadow Techniques deal triple damage.
Major Traits
Army of One (Rank 1) - When using an Opener, a Shadow Clone appears and assists you in attacking the target.
Explosive Shadows (Rank 1) - When Shadow Clones expire or die, they explode dealing 0 Fire damage to their last target.
Finality (Rank 1) - After using a Finisher, your next Finisher of that type is empowered by the Fangs.
Minor Traits
The Quiet Knife (Rank 3) - Increases the damage of Backstab by 13%.
Demon's Kiss (Rank 3) - Increases the damage of Nightblade by 20%.
Gutripper (Rank 3) - Increases the critical strike chance of Eviscerate by 20%.
Precision Strike (Rank 3) - Increases the damage dealt by your Shadowstrike by 40%.
Fortune's Bite (Rank 3) - Increases your chance of triggering Shadow Techniques by 133%.
Soul Shadows (Rank 3) - Increases the duration of Shadow Blades by 20 sec.
Energetic Stabbing (Rank 3) - Your openers have a chance to refund 20 Energy.
Catwalk (Rank 3) - Your Fleet Footed causes you to move an additional 20% faster. You are immune to fall damage.
Ghost Armor (Rank 3) - You take -m1% less damage.
Second Shuriken (Rank 1) - When you enter Stealth, you gain a shield equal to 25% of your Attack Power.
Faster Than Light (Rank 1) - After Sprinting for three seconds without taking damage, you Vanish.
Embrace of Darkness (Rank 1) - Protects the target with a magical shield that absorbs 0 shadow damage. Lasts 10 sec.

[Deleted]

Th...Thanks?

[elfporn]

Th...Thanks?

with the captain obvious expression.

[AceofHarts]

Pro tip -

If you are remotely excited about the Rogue changes in Legion. Do not read MMO-Champion forum threads based on said changes.

Honestly I think if I listened to the pessimism in this thread I'd quit gaming entirely. At the start it was all the QQ about the demon hunter, then prophecies about there being no changes at all to rogue - morphed into "omg I don't want to be a pirate" into more pessimism about every change going forward, as if nothing is changing.

It's like watching kids complain they got iPads for Christmas. Horrible.

well considering past trends, the complaints are justified as hell.

[Mafic]

I feel good about the theme they are pushing for all three specs. I like the single target and AoE potential of all three specs for Legion as they are all unique and not similar in anyways. But my concerns are as follows:

1. Sub has lost too much utility/CC. Why is Smoke Bomb a PVP talent on the last tier and column? It would be nice to have it for Sub PVE.

2. The loss of finishers for all three specs. For example, Outlaw only has Run Through and SnD as finishers now base line for PVE. Outlaw can choose Roll the Bones to add another finisher, but that still leaves Outlaw with just one damaging finisher which doesn't seem right to me IMVHO

3. The loss of Prep is going to have to be addressed at some point. They already rebalanced Sprint for the loss (30s CD). Will the same happen with Vanish and Evasion?

[Wow]

2. The loss of finishers for all three specs. For example, Outlaw only has Run Through and SnD as finishers now base line for PVE. Outlaw can choose Roll the Bones to add another finisher, but that still leaves Outlaw with just one damaging finisher which doesn't seem right to me IMVHO

How is 1 dmging finisher any different from now ?

3. The loss of Prep is going to have to be addressed at some point. They already rebalanced Sprint for the loss (30s CD). Will the same happen with Vanish and Evasion?

With all the healing baseline and in artifacts and talents I'm going to say no.

I don't think it's a coincidence that second evasion, vanish, combat readiness went away and at the same time better healing showed up.

[papajohn4]

I am looking through wowhead beta info, both basic abilities, talents and Artifact talents..and cannot find Burst of Speed in any of the specs That was my favorite spell for open world...it really made rogue unique and better than Feral Druid on stealth mechanics..

Maybe I am not seeing it and still exists? Generally I like how class are changing in Legion, but burst of speed is a huge hit for me

[Fuze]

I think it's baseline for assassination?

[papajohn4]

I think it's baseline for assassination?

hm... cant find it http://legion.wowhead.com/talent#Mrw

[Alanar]

hm... cant find it http://legion.wowhead.com/talent#Mrw

good
/10chars

[Aluren]

Pretty sure there are multiple threads about that already

[Mafic]

How is 1 dmging finisher any different from now ?



With all the healing baseline and in artifacts and talents I'm going to say no.

I don't think it's a coincidence that second evasion, vanish, combat readiness went away and at the same time better healing showed up.

Loss of Crimson Tempest makes Outlaw very restricted. Crimson Tempest was often very useful for AoE farming because Blade Flurry requires the mobs be tight packed and it was a good way to gather mobs for Blade Flurry. No AoE CP generator or AoE finisher seems odd to me. I like how Blade Flurry functions, but it still has major limitations.

The healing is probably not a factor, because other classes are seeing similar things. All they have done is made Recuperate an instant heal (Crimson Vial) and without using CPs. This should lead to more DPS, but that means all three specs have lost another finisher. Loss of Crimson Tempest and Recuperate has reduced the Rogue specs to very few finishers.

I disagree with the idea of removing Recuperate because it was a finisher that made for interesting choices in how you used your CPs. They could have front loaded the HoT if they wanted to make a heal for Rogues more friendly user for newer Rogue players.

I think that what they have done is that Outlaw will receive a second evasion through Riposte and Sub will have a 90s vanish. And a lot of the talents reduced the cool down of sprint.

That still doesn't seem right to me though, because the loss of a second vanish isn't made up for by Recuperate being turned into an instant instead of a HoT.

[jonjonz]

Not going to jump on the whine train here.

Rogues are dependent on energy and combo gen, and the new changes appear to increase that generation significantly. Less times waiting for auto attack to refill energy enough to use real skills.

I don't get the outlaw spec and think we just have to wait and see how it plays out, but both Sub and Assassin look good to me.

[elfporn]

Loss of Crimson Tempest makes Outlaw very restricted. Crimson Tempest was often very useful for AoE farming because Blade Flurry requires the mobs be tight packed and it was a good way to gather mobs for Blade Flurry. No AoE CP generator or AoE finisher seems odd to me. I like how Blade Flurry functions, but it still has major limitations.

The healing is probably not a factor, because other classes are seeing similar things. All they have done is made Recuperate an instant heal (Crimson Vial) and without using CPs. This should lead to more DPS, but that means all three specs have lost another finisher. Loss of Crimson Tempest and Recuperate has reduced the Rogue specs to very few finishers.

I disagree with the idea of removing Recuperate because it was a finisher that made for interesting choices in how you used your CPs. They could have front loaded the HoT if they wanted to make a heal for Rogues more friendly user for newer Rogue players.

I think that what they have done is that Outlaw will receive a second evasion through Riposte and Sub will have a 90s vanish. And a lot of the talents reduced the cool down of sprint.

That still doesn't seem right to me though, because the loss of a second vanish isn't made up for by Recuperate being turned into an instant instead of a HoT.

i agree with you about the lack of finishers, though i dislike recuperate. CT had potential but it was squandered by the bleed, no front-loaded damage meant it was useless in anything but solo play.

Fewer finishers will be particularly noticable with the plethora of combo points we're likely to have. i've scrutinized sub the most lately, and the potential CP gen is amazing (unless there's an ICD on shadow tech)

[papajohn4]

good
/10chars

ha well good for you! anyway, I guess that is because of pvp? damn that pvp destroyed all the best abilities..I dont pvp btw, I just like that spell travelling in open world..

Pretty sure there are multiple threads about that already

didnt see any...