WoW:Legion Rogue Discussion

[Fiska]

That's the reason behind having PV as a "generator" (basically not a finisher) and to make it proc DP.

Currently, in our iteration, Poison Vial is neither a generator or a finisher, which is my biggest gripe with it. The Rogue's resources are there to be used, but we're not using them. This is an indication that there's a mechanical issue somewhere (Envenom perk). We could try fixing Envenom, but could it rather work if Poison Vial was changed to a generator costing ~30 Energy and granting 1 CP? There would still be burst potential if you pool ~120 Energy, it wouldn't require Envenom to be up, and it would build CPs towards Envenom/Rupture.

Another gripe is that throwing a vial in melee range doesn't make sense realistically. It could be ground-targeted, but I really despise ground-targeted AoE. It doesn't cohere well with a melee class who's typically running around a lot (using the mouse) to move the cursor over to locations. Especially when our iteration of Poison Vial is looking to be used in rapid succession.

[Coldkil]

but could it rather work if Poison Vial was changed to a generator costing ~30 Energy and granting 1 CP?

Yeah, that was my first idea - PV would replace FoK as generator in terms of ability type. We could still use Enevenom to keep up the buff and deal more poison damage.

Another gripe is that throwing a vial in melee range doesn't make sense realistically. It could be ground-targeted, but I really despise ground-targeted AoE. It doesn't cohere well with a melee class who's typically running around a lot (using the mouse) to move the cursor over to locations. Especially when our iteration of Poison Vial is looking to be used in rapid succession.

I agree with your point, but Assassination definitely needs something on the line - also the entire idea of throwing a poison vial implies something like gas/liquid pouring out on the grond and leaving some sort of trace.
It can be changed from ground targeted AoE to "throw a poison bottle at the enemy that breaks on contact leaving on the ground a 10yd radius puddle of venom". Mechanics is still the same but does require a target and is not manually aimed.

How does this sound?

[Genericrogue]

Sorry, quoting a couple pages back, here. RE: AOE

Assassination: the main problem of Assa is the slow gameplay and the fact that energy regen is tied to Rupture - the current aoe rotation involves multirupturing mobs to get increased energy regen and procs. We have both a builed (FoK) and a finisher (CT) but both are very lackluster and don't count much towards the total damage, which is done by DP and VW procs on multiple mobs.

I'd simply remove both FoK and CT and give Assassination a new spell: Poison Vial (lol). PV is targeted ground aoe skill which grants you 1CP and has 8 sec CD.
It leaves a puddle of poison of 10yd radius which lasts 10 seconds; all enemies that pass through it are affected by DP and take X% weapn damage as nature every 2 seconds (DP refreshes its duration every tick). If your target is affected by both Rupture and PV, Envenoming him will spread Rupture on all targets inside the poison pool. If you have a target, PV is automatically cast at your target position, otherwise it works like Distract. Poison puddles don't stack (like Rain of Fire or Blizzard work).

this was very similar to my thoughts as well. Some type of poison explosion. Either as a CP builder with a DoT (as you mentioned), or alternatively, as a very powerful ground target Finisher with DoT.

Subtlety: actually, Subtlety rotation for AoE is already pretty well defined around Rupture cleaving for 2 targets and CT usage for 3+ targets. FoK is a really good CP generator due to how it works for Sub (1cp for every enemy it hits) and as soon you have 2+ targets, it becomes THE cp generator due to much more finisher usage.

I think maybe an interesting option would be to give Sub some kind of cd like old-school BF. 15 seconds, deals damage dealt to x number of close targets (2? 3?)

[Coldkil]

I think maybe an interesting option would be to give Sub some kind of cd like old-school BF. 15 seconds, deals damage dealt to x number of close targets (2? 3?)

Main issue with Sub is a) it has already a number of relatively short CDs and b) all of them revolve on a single maintenace debuff which is core of the spec (Find Weakness).

Tbh, i don't see a practical way to make sub have a decent cleave/aoe rotation - even currently cleave damage isn't so bad, but as soon Shadow Dance is up yu basically forget everything and nuke your priority target with it.

Also, cleave/aoe damage of Sub is based again on dots (rupture, CT, eventually hemo) which have no damage increase from FW. It's a sort of conflicting mechanic like Restless Blades VS Bandit's Guile for combat. Even making some skill applying FW on multiple targets, it won't be a damage increase.

[Fiska]

It can be changed from ground targeted AoE to "throw a poison bottle at the enemy that breaks on contact leaving on the ground a 10yd radius puddle of venom". Mechanics is still the same but does require a target and is not manually aimed.

It could work, though I'm not a fan of AoE effects that mobs can be dragged out of. The current iteration could work already, and also be realistic at the same time, if only the ability was something else entirely than a thrown vial. Not sure what kind of attack would cause the same effect. "Poison Palm Explosion"! :P

Main issue with Sub is a) it has already a number of relatively short CDs and b) all of them revolve on a single maintenace debuff which is core of the spec (Find Weakness).

It would be great if FoK could apply Find Weakness during Shadow Dance. Maybe even make Find Weakness a buff on the Rogue instead of a debuff on the enemy. It's fine that Subtlety is hard to play, but that shouldn't cause the spec to almost break down in various scenarios (mainly multi-target scenarios, but also solo). That's my main gripe with the spec. It's just good for damaging one target from behind, and it requires systems like Glyphs and Talents to fuel that damage. For example, Subtlety needs Glyph of Vanish, Glyph of Energy and to most extents Glyph of Hemorrhaging Veins. The entire Glyph system is used for damage. When it comes to Talents there is Subterfuge, which means no hope for Nightstalker's 20% movement boost when Stealthed. Even Vanish needs to be spent on damage, which is conveniently a survival utility for Assassination and Combat. Heck, add in Preparation too. So the most Stealth oriented spec Rogues have is the slowest at moving in Stealth and also the least likely to escape with Vanish when needed. It's just too much. Is it impossible to make Subtlety a challenging spec without requiring all of this?

[Coldkil]

It would be great if FoK could apply Find Weakness during Shadow Dance.

It doesn't change a thing as most of the aoe damage is done by Rupture and CT dots (which already ignore armor). It would help for sure but not a great degree; however i can see it viable as it's a small convenience boots to the aoe damage.

As for the rest, im fine with current sub situation; the fact is that all the "challenge" is about keeping all your eyes on Rupture timer because Multistrike loves RNG so you have to be always prepared to refresh it otherwise you're losing 25 (or 30? dont remeber right now) percent of your damage.

[Fiska]

As for the rest, im fine with current sub situation;

It's definitely not ok for Subtlety to "not have Glyphs" and be so un-fluid mechanical wise. There are other specs capable of doing competitive damage without all that nonsense.

[Todesbote]

As for the rest, im fine with current sub situation; the fact is that all the "challenge" is about keeping all your eyes on Rupture timer because Multistrike loves RNG so you have to be always prepared to refresh it otherwise you're losing 25 (or 30? dont remeber right now) percent of your damage.

I'm curious are you still raiding with your sub rogue? Because keeping an eye on Rupture is far from being "the challenge". Sure, it's more of a challenge than Assa where you're casting Rupture once every 24 seconds and spamming Envenom for the rest of the time. But the real challenging thing about Sub is the cooldown management. With the 4-set bonus Vanish timing is so important due to it's interaction with our procs and other cooldowns:

a) Soul Capacitor
b) Shadow Dance
c) Vanish
d) Legendary Ring

How long do you keep Vanish instead of using it so it is ready for your next SD? How long can you delay your Vanish before it is a damage loss? What about if your next SD is also when your group uses Bloodlust? What about if the Ring is up for your next SD? When is it beneficial to cancel Soul Cap due to it's interaction with the Legendary Ring? Everything changes depending on your current situation in the fight. Target switching has to be considered... you don't want to end up without any of your powerful cooldowns when Sargerei Dominator spawns on Socrethar for example.

Also a big problem with sub is how hard the game can fuck you with RNG on a spec that relies so heavily on short burst phases. If you have to run out to deal with a mechanic (there are more than enough of those in HFC) right as you use your SD/Vanish you lose a HUGE chunk of your damage. On the other hand if you always try to play it perfectly safe and wait for the most opportune moments to use your CDs you might end up losing a couple of Vanishes or even a SD during the whole fight which severely hurts your damage. It's a gamble.

I'm not saying sub needs to be easier to play. I'm not even saying sub should be changed because the strong CDs are what makes this spec viable and fun. I'm just saying Rupture/SnD/Evi rotation is the least challenging aspect of Sub.

[Coldkil]

No i don't raid from BRF release basically things may have changed that i don't know. Sorry if i'm putting misinformation around.

However the issue imho is on a different direction.
I agree with both of you that Sub is "complicated for nothing" - the problem here anyways doen't reside on the spec itself but in the fights not rewarding you enough for the increase in difficulty of the spec.

The fact is not that Sub cannot do damage in a proper way; th fact is the other two specs can do the same in a much simpler way and there's no Sub tuning that can make this batter unti a) it's a directd amage boost or b) Sub gets dumbed down at the other specs level.

[Fiska]

Subtlety does get rewarded (with higher dps) if you nail the rotation. Fail at the rotation, and you'll end up alongside Assassination. Seems fine, right? Yes, it is, but it's not just about nailing the rotation. Well for Assassination it's about nailing the rotation (for the most part), but for Subtlety there's more to it. I'm talking about all the systems Subtlety has to give up in order to deal higher dps in addition to nailing the rotation. Higher dps should come in the form of nailing the more difficult rotation. It should not come in the form of nailing the difficult rotation + choosing the dps glyphs + choosing the dps talent + using your utility for dps. Bake the effect of the glyphs into Subtlety's abilities, or just remove them. Otherwise there's no point in having the glyph system. It's just a trap waiting for bad players to step into.

Then there's Subtlety's mechanics which makes the spec very clunky to play. I refuse to believe that it's impossible to make Subtlety's rotation difficult, but at the same time fluid. Take Backstab being unusable when soloing. The fix is simple. Similarly Find Weakness could be a buff on the Rogue instead of a debuff on the enemy. It wouldn't make the spec any easier necessarily. It would just ensure that Shadow Dance would actually be usable during multi-target scenarios. And so on.

[Todesbote]

What "system" are Subtlety rogues giving up on? Glyphs? We have no real choices there, true. But neither do Assa and Combat rogues. You will always want Glyph of Energy, Vendetta and Vanish as Assa. If you need more Feint uptime you sac your Vanish Glyph. You will always want Glyph of Energy as Combat, the other 2 Gylph slots just don't matter at all. How is that better than with Subtlety?
What other system are we giving up? Having to choose Subterfuge instead of Shadow Focus? So what it's not like we're losing out on something. Combat and Assa will always pick Shadow Focus over Nightstalker in a raid environment. You're not talking about raids? You are talking about open world PvE? Fine you can also pick Nightstalker and be Subtlety for that. Doesn't make a difference.

You're right otherwise. There are very simple fixes to make Subtlety less of a clusterfuck for example by removing positional requirements on Backstab. The problem is almost every rogue agrees that this needs to be changed and Blizzard know this. Yet they won't change it.

[Fiska]

Assassination and Combat can get away with using only Glyph of Energy. Sometimes Glyph of Vendetta for Assassination. Similarly, Shadow Focus is not a requirement for Combat and Assassination as Subterfuge is for Subtlety.

Sanguinary Vein, Rupture and Find Weakness is mainly what makes Subtlety a "clusterfuck". Find Weakness I've already talked about moving over to a self-buff, and the other two could use similar treatment. There would still be just as much to maintain if that became the case, but you wouldn't have to maintain it on every single target. Currently, having to do so is too much to ask for, as Subtlety's multi-target dps is very unrewarding for the difficulty and work put into it compared to Combat and Assassination.

[Deleted]

. You will always want Glyph of Energy as Combat, the other 2 Gylph slots just don't matter at all.

Actually combat also wants that Disappearance Glyph, but I guess that improves actually your point

[Todesbote]

Assassination and Combat can get away with using only Glyph of Energy. Sometimes Glyph of Vendetta for Assassination. Similarly, Shadow Focus is not a requirement for Combat and Assassination as Subterfuge is for Subtlety.

Actually no. Every player who takes their role in raids (dealing damage) seriously will want to optimize their damage. Glyph of Vendetta is a damage increase in 95% of all cases. Rarely you gain more by not using the glyph depending on the fight's mechanics. If you want to define the fact that Glyph of Vendetta is only a damage gain in 95% of the fights and can be changed in the other 5% as "freedom of choice" be my guest. Also Nightstalker offers no real value in a PvE raid setting. Every player who wants to optimize his output will pick Shadow Focus over Nightstalker. Not much freedom there.

I agree with you however that Subterfuge feels a lot more "mandatory" for Sub rogues than Shadow Focus for Combat/Assa because of it's interaction with Glyph of Vanish. They tried to change this at the beginning of BRF but failed miserably by bugging out the whole spec (stance macros not working anymore, action bars not switching on SD / Vanish, horribly bugged Master of Subtlety with 100% uptime). Then they just gave up and reverted all changes. Other than that there is still no real freedom of choice in this talent tier. Sub goes Subterfuge, Combat/Assa go Shadow Focus 100% of the time (in a raid setting). And honestly that's okay. Nightstalker still has it's uses in open world PvE / PvP and leveling.

Sanguinary Vein, Rupture and Find Weakness is mainly what makes Subtlety a "clusterfuck". Find Weakness I've already talked about moving over to a self-buff, and the other two could use similar treatment. There would still be just as much to maintain if that became the case, but you wouldn't have to maintain it on every single target.

Even if you make it easier to apply and maintain those buffs/debuffs that won't improve Subtlety in any scenario besides single target burst damage where Sub is already king. Even if Rupture would become an AoE finisher and Find Weakness would become a self-buff it would not change that situation. All that would accomplish is to make it less punishing to switch to priority targets. It would be a welcome QoL change in some situations but it won't help with making Sub viable for anything besides single target burst. Target switching usually means that the target has priority and must be killed ASAP which means you save a Vanish or SD for it anyways - negating the "Find Weakness" problem you speak of.

The issue with making Sub viable in AoE and/or 2-3 target cleave is that a huge portion of our damage (30-40% is from Ambush/Evis during Shadow Dance and Vanish) happens in burst intervals. The only way I could see Sub becoming acceptable to use for cleave without fundamentally changing how the spec works is something like the old Blade Flurry from TBC (multiple target cleave, on use effect with cooldown) or give us a finisher that makes our attacks cleave for 2 seconds per combo point or something like Sweeping Strikes. Depending on how they design and balance it this could help Sub being viable in 2-3 target cleave situations or even burst AoE (if they give Sub a Blade Flurry like Combat has now).

Currently, having to do so is too much to ask for, as Subtlety's multi-target dps is very unrewarding for the difficulty and work put into it compared to Combat and Assassination.

Unrewarding for the difficulty? No, the problem is that currently it is not even worth doing multi-target dps. It's not a question of challenging play style or difficulty. Subtlety is just useless by design on multi-target dps. Crimson Tempest is too slow and does too little damage for the burst-style add waves that are happening in most encounters now. FoK is only used to boost single target damage by generating a shit ton of CPs to dump into Evis in order to progress our Vanish cooldown. It sadly does nothing in terms of AoE damage compared to real burst AoE like Warriors, Combat Rogues or Warlocks have (see Kormrok, see Iskar, see Xhul and see Mannoroth). If FoK / Crimson Tempest was buffed a little Subtlety could maybe keep up with other classes on sustained AoE on 5+ targets over long periods of time but those situations just don't happen in raids anymore. It's always about bursting add waves as fast as possible or passively cleaving 1-2 low priority targets. The only fight in this whole expansion where FoK / Crimson Tempest spam actually did something was Tectus. Let's not kid ourselves even on Tectus Combat could achieve way more due to Blade Flurry.

compared to Combat and Assassination.

Assassination multi-target is just as bad as Subtlety's. How can you even compare it to Combat here? FoK is way too slow. The only way Assa deals AoE damage is with Deadly Poison which takes forever to build up and still does shitty damage when it's up. Again the same problem as with Sub: add waves need to die fast -> sustained AoE is shit. In terms of 2-3 target cleave: The only niche Assa has here is to slap Rupture + Poison on a secondary low prio cleave target and generate Energy with Venomous Wounds. Assa also benefits from long living adds because we can abuse Energy regen until the add hits 35% hp and then switch fully to the add and use Dispatch/Envenom spam which is just insane with 4set + class trinket. This way Assa can occasionally almost catch up with Subtlety in overall damage on exotic fights like Velhari for example. But if you actually take a look on how Assassination works it's not like throwing Rupture and Poison on 1-2 targets does any meaningful damage to those targets. It's basically just a way of generating energy and thus boosting your single-target output. Just like FoK is used to boost single-target damage on Sub.

[Fiska]

Actually no. Every player who takes their role in raids (dealing damage) seriously will want to optimize their damage.

Absolutely, but as I say, Combat and Assassination can get away without using it. I'm pulling 95%-100% bracket as Combat, have sometimes been 1st place, and my best results have been without Glyph of Disappearance or Shadow Focus. So overall, Blizzard will hopefully remove direct dps increases like this, but atm Combat and Assassination can get away without using it.

Even if you make it easier to apply and maintain those buffs/debuffs that won't improve Subtlety in any scenario besides single target burst damage where Sub is already king. Even if Rupture would become an AoE finisher and Find Weakness would become a self-buff it would not change that situation.

You're thinking completely inside the box. Remove Rupture from Subtlety. Assassination has it (spec differentiation). Subtlety is about maintaining many things at once, so just give it another finishing move similar to Slice and Dice. A buff on the Rogue, but with a completely different effect. It's just replacing Rupture, which is already a duration to track (on the target). Example of an effect; every time your Backstab/Ambush multistrike you deal X amount of bonus damage. Make multistrikes reduce the buff's duration, similar to how it works with Rupture. Just to make it more interactive than Slice and Dice. This would make target switching no issue since you won't have to apply Rupture every time a new target enters the fight. Or to put it better, you wouldn't need to target switch. And ofc, Sanguinary Veins would have to be removed as well. I'm not saying this is the ultimate solution, but it would be a solution.

Like, the point here is that Subtlety is currently gimped and hampered by target switching. We already know what's wrong, so it's more interesting discussing what can be done. You're basically claiming the same problems as me, but you word yourself differently and then somehow try to argue against me when our point is the same. See below.

Unrewarding for the difficulty? No, the problem is that currently it is not even worth doing multi-target dps.

Let's not play word-games, please. We both agree Subtlety is weak at multi-target dps. No reason to twist it around just for the sake of arguing.

Assassination multi-target is just as bad as Subtlety's. How can you even compare it to Combat here? FoK is way too slow.

I wrote about the skill difficulty involved with Subtlety's multi-target rotation compared to Assassination and Combat. It's a "clusterfuck", and the reward is too low. But in pure numbers, Assassination's multi-target dps is currently doing better than Subtlety's. Is Assassination's multi-target dps enough, however? Probably not.

But seriously, when I'm talking about multi-target dps I'm talking about the damage the spec deals in total. Not how much damage it deals just to the 2nd or 3rd target. And in that regard, Assassination benefits more from having 1-2 extra targets next to it than Subtlety does. Is part of that due to the extra Energy regeneration? Absolutely. But so what?

To be clear in what I'm suggesting here,
-Subtlety shouldn't need to revolve around multi-dotting. It shouldn't have dots.
-Subtlety can do fine with being able to only hit one target at a time when there are 1-3 targets in the fight.
-Subtlety needs to be able to switch between those 1-3 targets seamlessly, but without seeing a dps increase when doing so (spec uniqueness).
-Subtlety's AoE (5+ targets) is performed with FoK.
-Subtlety's AoE doesn't need to be great, but it needs to be easy. The hard part (and rewarding part) is the ST rotation.
-Subtlety's AoE should probably work with Shadow Dance.
-Subtlety's FoK shouldn't generate extra Combo Points based on targets hit. No need to complicate the ST rotation when there's extra targets nearby.
-Subtlety, most of all Rogue specs, needs to drop the glyph and talent requirements.

[Deleted]

Hi all, being already in the extended middle see end extension you there I submit my ideas.

The proposed changes:

[GENERAL]
Stealth now has a cooldown of 3sec instead of 6sec.
Shadowstep becomes a basic technique.
Cloak of shadow now has a cooldown of 60sec instead of 90sec.
Recuperate is deleted.

[Talent]
15 : Stealth
- Cloak and Dagger (Sub): Ambush, Garrote, and Cheap Shot now have a range of 20m and allows you to teleport behind your target.
(Works with Shadow Dance)
- Subterfuge (Cbt): does not change.
- Shadow Focus (Assa): does not change.
30: Control
- Deadly Throw (Sub): 35nrj / 30m range / Instant
Finishing move that causes damage and reduces movement speed of the target by 70% for 6sec. If it is used with 5 points combos interrupts the target for 3 sec.
This damage does not change.
- Quickness (Cbt): Kick sees its cooldown increased from 3sec, but it is reduced by 6sec if it interrupts a spell successfully.
- Dirty tricks (Assa): your your Sap, Blind, Gouge not cost more energy and are no longer interrupted by the damage of your effects of poisons and bleeding.
45 : Survival
- Cheat Death : the number of life points is from 7% to 10% and reduces damage taken by 85% to 90%.
- Combat Readiness : does not change.
- Elusiveness : does not change.
60 : Mobility
- Speedstep (Sub): Passive. Increases your movement speed by 10% and reduces the duration of all movement impairing effects by 40%.
- Fleeting shadow (Assa): Reduces the cooldown of Shadowstep to 12s.
Upon activation of Shadowstep cancels all movement impairing effects and it gets a 2s immunity.
- Burst of speed (Cbt): The Sprint cooldown is reduced by 20 sec.
Sprint cancels all movement impairing effects when are activated..
75 : Improved Cheap Shot and Kidney Shot
- Prey on the weak : does not change.
- Internal bleeding : does not change.
- Nerve stike : does not change.
90: combo points Management
- Ruthlessness (Assa): Your finisher have a 20% per combo point chance use to generate 2 combo points .
- Marked for death (Cbt): does not change.
- Anticipation (Sub): does not change.
100: Phase burst ?
- Venom rush (Assa): will not be changed and / or may perform light up.
- Shadow reflection (Cbt): does not change.
- Death from above (Sub): will not be changed and / or performing an acceleration of the animation.

* Leeching poison is deleted.

[GLYPHS]
Glyphs Recuperate, Recovery, Stealth, Kick, Cheap shot are deleted.
After if you have serious ideas glyphs noted. ^^

Here are my suggestions for Assassination spec :

- The energy bar: We'll start with this because on one hand it allows to differentiate the 3 spec as that of Assa is the largest and there was always so far.
But have atm is forced to use the glyph + 20nrj if want comfort and have put pressure us and therefore it wastes a glyph location; so I recommend it to raise the Assassin's resolve liability that is 20 and thus pass the 50 and thus at the same time remove the glyph.
In those regards other spec for this glyph I think it would cause concern only for spec Combat because Sinister Strike costs 50nrj so I think that it should be down to 40nrj for comfort without the glyph.

- Damage passiv : These are passiv of the style Assassin's resolve, perks Envenom; in the past it had a lot of it is passive after soyent I think they need (atm settings because the damage is going through patches), the Assassin's resolveand Envenom perks suffice, perhaps slightly up Assassin's resolve will be fine.

- Crit: As said above this stat allowed constant pressure without real burst this spec (the only cd spec was Cold Blood) who also allowed to differentiate it from the other 2 spec that had burst on cd and especially this stat allows the proper functioning of Seal fate.
So for that I offer the following ideas:
I think we should put a passive style Puncturings wounds that would increase the critical strike chance of Mutilate and Dispatch.
Then there had Lethality that allowed to put a lot of pressure because this liability while increasing critical damage our combo builders 30% , and so I think that a liability like it would be interesting to establish all remmetre by adapting it to the spec.
And lately there had Malice and Cold blood, but with my following proposals I not think it is interesting to put it.

- Poisons: Certainly their number was reduced from WoD and since MoP are differentiate into two categories (lethal and non-lethal), but it is normal that the assassination spec is an advantage in this aspect ; so my first idea on this aspect is to challenge the talent Deadly brew which have the effect of making the deadly poison that also applies to the care of the painful poison debuff on the target.
My second idea is to make the deadly poison stack (10-15 times) and thus to progressively stack that the damage is intensified and call that the "dose" that could be when being stacker at càc .
My last idea on this aspect is to give them a percentage chance to resist dispel effects through, there were a talent that exist for this was Vile poisons .

- Venomous Wounds: I find this very passive according to the spec (open wound festering with poison causing more damage) but why only apply Rupture?
So I propose to do that Venomous wounds also applies to Garrote (as before elsewhere), but also Crimson tempest for up to 3 targets for the latter.

- Envenom: This ability is next to the image "Master Poisoner ', it certainly inflicts instant poison damage but he took off it would pose a DoT, the Envenom personally I see it like this:
Move that instantly inflicts nature damage plus 100% of the initial damage 6sec, the damage over time can not be dissipated and poison are kind and increases your chance to apply poisons by 30%.
The damage and duration depends on the number of combo points and dose consuming Deadly poison .

- Dispatch: This ability is found for this spec, as it says in the title of the spec that the murderer it completed target of vicious blows daggers and have thus a capacity of executor, but nevertheless damage are feeble indeed spammable but sometimes not enough to kill at runtime.
So I think about it only bring a change that will perk replacing another, and thus to allow Dispatch to inflict poison damage (thus changing the mastery) at runtime.
This perk will replace that of Vendetta, because I delete afterwards.

- Vendetta: I find this capability really bad thought for this spec because it first lands on this target impossible to switch over and disappears at the lower of immune fate and secondly it is in the rest of the GCD with other capacity and thirdly it has nothing to do with the Poison side or Executor.
So personally I will be replacing it with a Poisoned blade capacity of the kind that will make our white shot of nature damage plus an effect that directly involve our poisons, will of course be a recharge to capacity.

- Shiv: Personally this ability also is part of the image of the assassination spec because it allows you to apply a more powerful version of our non-lethal poison. Changing this ability will only perk replacing, which will make that every time we the faster it uses the stack allows Deadly dose of poison (ex: We just used a Envenom full dose hop Shiv is used and this dose more X 2 doses => 5 doses with Kriss use).
It will replace the perk Crimson tempest.

Regarding all other passivs , perks, capacity of the spec was not cited these are what for which no modifications are necessary.
According to everyone who is balancing the damage, I leave it to Blizzard to deal.

[Smassy]

Our class hall. It probably won't change one bit except for maybe 1 or 2 extra npc's.

[Wow]

So with multistrike gone sub will have to get a new focus. For me this is great I hate the way sub plays now the rng rupture drops are just annoying and nothing really hitting hard like it use to yea the class trinket helps but it won't be here in legion and its not here now in pvp.

Also I wonder what our buff will change to.

[Skayaq]

I suddenly have hope that rogue might actually get some decent attention with that, "most specs are being changed" comment

Or they mean changes to every other class than rogue, which would still be "most specs".

[XorMalice]

Or they mean changes to every other class than rogue, which would still be "most specs".

Right, they mentioned "most classes" (all except rogue) at the announcement too.

I don't think it's impossible that they would change stuff. But I would definitely not count on it. The survival change was pretty out of nowhere and it was controversial. Maybe it was calculated to see what the response looks like?