New Info on Hunters for Legion

[SteveRocks]

I hope BM is not a gun; if so I would have to transmog over it because a night elf using a gun is NO BUENO

[Aeriel]

Even though lots of stuff may change, I can say that I'm not a fan of a "melee spec" for hunters. I don't think it's needed, and it also could be a balancing nightmare. Marks being a baseline petless spec is pretty cool (and needed), I can't wait to see the other changes though.

Survival was the PvP/melee spec in Vanilla, so there is that...

[Deleted]

The real question is what about the raider who hates melee(or doesn't have room on raid team for another melee) when SV becomes dominant for a patch or raid tier?

uhh... what about it?
if SV = Melee, then you'll get treated like a melee if you play it, that's just it.
what will rogues do?

[jinxd]

uhh... what about it?
if SV = Melee, then you'll get treated like a melee if you play it, that's just it.
what will rogues do?

And if the hunter's raid team has no room for another melee? Or if the hunter simply hates melee?

[bewbew]

Survival lost it's identity so long ago it's not even funny.

It had cool melee utility in Vanilla and some of BC.

It had some cool trap utility and Wyvern Sting in Wrath.

But as time went by, everything it had of unique became universal. Now it's just a generic hunter but with some DoTs and Magical damage shots (Like MM and BM didn't ALSO have some magical damage shots).

Survival hunter being the loner, the woodsman, the lumberjack with a spear is badass.

[Deleted]

And if the hunter's raid team has no room for another melee? Or if the hunter simply hates melee?

and if he hates BM and BM is fotm?
"no room for another melee" is something I can't even imagine in a team enviroment

Non hardcore raiders wouldn't give a damn, and "high-end" hardcore players play whatever class is the best and if a class is significantly better, they'll stack it.

You play what you like... SV in WoD won't be SV in Legion, just like SV in BC wasn't the same SV in WotlK.. the specc changes no matter what, you either like the changes or not.
The "I played SV since 1.0 because it's the only specc I like-argument" (thats where this conversation is going to anyway) is ridiculous, because it got changed so much over the years and just like it did in the past, it'll have another change in the next xpac.

Btw, they said that changing specs won't be as easy as it is right now. You have and will level your weapon throughout the *whole* xpac and they are currently thinking about what sort of catch-up mechanics (for the other relic weapons of your *class*, not alt) they add.
Which means they want you to feel some sort of "hit" if you decide to switch out on your class-spec..probably not a big one, but if you are lazy (as in "I don't want to level another class") like me, you might consider it twice.

[Deleted]

If an encounter really doesn't want melee, I'll go to those specs as long as BM and MM are not miles behind the new melee SV, it's not a problem, and I doubt Blizzard would let one of the ranged specs not be viable (which doesn't mean the top spec)

[JasonFawfull]

The real question is what about the raider who hates melee(or doesn't have room on raid team for another melee) when SV becomes dominant for a patch or raid tier?

Shamans also have a choice between melee and ranged and I have never seen a guild force an enchantment shaman to go elemental or vice versa.

I understand the concern, but it's already been in practice for a decade now.

[jinxd]

Shamans also have a choice between melee and ranged and I have never seen a guild force an enchantment shaman to go elemental or vice versa.

I understand the concern, but it's already been in practice for a decade now.

I completely agree with you. I'm just outwardly curious to see if the status quo will be the same for hunters as it is for shaman. Being that shaman have basically always been separated in such a manner, I'm anxious to see if it's socially acceptable for the hunter in Legion to be strictly melee as well or if the masses will expect them to switch optimally.

[Pengalor]

Nobody ever asked to be a melee hunter. This is a stupid change. Big fuckoff to everyone who prefers the survival spec. No wonder they nerfed it into thd ground they want us to quit playing it so we aren't as fond of it before they rebuild it.

You really need to learn to speak for yourself, you've said something along these lines in every thread about this. Believe it or not, some people think melee hunter is a fun idea and worth trying.

- - - Updated - - -

And if the hunter's raid team has no room for another melee? Or if the hunter simply hates melee?

Then they play another spec?

[jinxd]

Then they play another spec?

I completely agree with you. I'm just outwardly curious to see if the status quo will be the same for hunters as it is for shaman. Being that shaman have basically always been separated in such a manner, I'm anxious to see if it's socially acceptable for the hunter in Legion to be strictly melee as well or if the masses will expect them to switch optimally.

Just wondering how it's going to play out, mate.

[Orly]

But the guy you are talking about plays another class, that has a competely different playstyle and ressource system, maybe not even a pet and no traps, SV and MM don't really have that.

And tbh. Survival doesn't even remotely feel like "survival".

The difference between arms and fury is so minimal it comes down to just what weapons they use. Same with frost and unholy and all rogue specs. Why not force combat into ranged dps or unholy into ranged spell damage plate wearer a la necromancer while you're at it? What's so unique about arms as opposed to fury, other than the fact that it cannot dual-wield?

How does going in the face of an enemy just to get clobbered feel more like survival than staying at ranged?

Just admit it, they had a hard time thinking of 3 different bows for each spec of this class and a random polearm was easier to come up with just so they can deliver on the whole "an artifact weapon for each spec" bullshit.

[arcaneshot]

I've actually been wanting this for a while, and it gives reason for Hunters to use melee weapons again (Hunter weapon notwithstanding). Beside which... Survival today played very much like Beast Master, which made the spec kind of redundant.

[Pengalor]

The difference between arms and fury is so minimal it comes down to just what weapons they use. Same with frost and unholy and all rogue specs. Why not force combat into ranged dps or unholy into ranged spell damage plate wearer a la necromancer while you're at it? What's so unique about arms as opposed to fury, other than the fact that it cannot dual-wield?

How does going in the face of an enemy just to get clobbered feel more like survival than staying at ranged?

Just admit it, they had a hard time thinking of 3 different bows for each spec of this class and a random polearm was easier to come up with just so they can deliver on the whole "an artifact weapon for each spec" bullshit.

Yeah, they totally are redoing an entire spec just because the art team couldn't come up with a better artifact ...

Fucking hell, people....

[Orly]

I've actually been wanting this for a while, and it gives reason for Hunters to use melee weapons again (Hunter weapon notwithstanding). Beside which... Survival today played very much like Beast Master, which made the spec kind of redundant.

Except it's the furthest from BM out of the two remaining specs. What feels closer to a spec that deals physical damage with his pet, a spec that deals mostly physical damage with its weapon or a spec that deals mostly magical damage with its weapon?

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, they totally are redoing an entire spec just because the art team couldn't come up with a better artifact ...

Fucking hell, people....

Again...why not do the same with the rest of the pure dps classes if homogenization is such an issue? Assasination vs combat is exactly the physical vs magical dmg difference between MM and survival

This entire expansion screams of desperation, I really wouldn't be surprised if that would be the main reason. After all, we get Dalaran as neutral hub ...AGAIN

[jinxd]

Except it's the furthest from BM out of the two remaining specs. What feels closer to a spec that deals physical damage with his pet, a spec that deals mostly physical damage with its weapon or a spec that deals mostly magical damage with its weapon?

- - - Updated - - -



Again...why not do the same with the rest of the pure dps classes if homogenization is such an issue? Assasination vs combat is exactly the physical vs magical dmg difference between MM and survival

The differences between the rogue specs are far greater than the differences within the current hunter specs. Same can be said for the other classes you mentioned. You're really not making much of an argument here.

[Pengalor]

Again...why not do the same with the rest of the pure dps classes if homogenization is such an issue? Assasination vs combat is exactly the physical vs magical dmg difference between MM and survival

Because they haven't gotten to them yet? Or they feel they are varied enough? Keep in mind, this happened a full expansion after they already expressed displeasure at hunter's lack of variation and told us we were getting some kind of rework.

[Orly]

The differences between the rogue specs are far greater than the differences within the current hunter specs. Same can be said for the other classes you mentioned. You're really not making much of an argument here.

Sorry, not seeing it. And don't tell me how much of an argument I make when you just come and say "no, they're different" without any other argument to back it up

- - - Updated - - -

Because they haven't gotten to them yet? Or they feel they are varied enough? Keep in mind, this happened a full expansion after they already expressed displeasure at hunter's lack of variation and told us we were getting some kind of rework.

They? Who are these "they"?

Did they listen to a vocal minority yet again? Great....as if demon hunters wasn't enough

[GodlyBob]

The real question is what about the raider who hates melee(or doesn't have room on raid team for another melee) when SV becomes dominant for a patch or raid tier?

You've got 3 DPS specs, even if SV becomes the optimal spec for a tier, the chances that the other two specs are utter garbage is going to be remote. Most classes can still have a decent representation for their less than optimal specs.

[jinxd]

Sorry, not seeing it. And don't tell me how much of an argument I make when you just come and say "no, we're different" without any other argument to back it up

Lets see, you brought up warriors, rogues, and dk's as examples of classes having similar specs that needed diversity just as much if not more than hunter.

Warrior- has 3 specs, one of which is WILDLY different than the others. Can fulfill two different roles.
DK- has 3 specs, one of which is WILDLY different than the others. Another has a pet as well. Can fulfull two different roles.
Rogue- Specs play differently as well. Sub plays NOTHING like mut or combat and vise versa.

Again, you're making a terrible argument for an idea so off the wall like "they couldn't come up with 3 bows so they chose to make an entirely different spec as it was way less work to do the former than the latter."