Why is rune of power still in the game? It's cumbersome and not fun.

[Deleted]

I would say from a hardcore raiders perspective, both RoP and Crystal can be fun, because you know your tanks and other people in the raid, so there is pretty much nothing to worry about that will fuck those talents up for you. I.E you are in controll.

Mechanics like stay 8yr from one another works in a guild setting where you can say "this spot is mine" and have "fun" in your rune, you know your tank wont move unless he have to move for no apparent reason, so crystal will work with 100% efficency, which equals good DPS.

Then you come LFR or normal/hc PuGs, people run all over the fucking place, putting shit in your rune, moving boss even tho its unnecessary just as you place your crystal. And here comes the problems with those talents. In a not well oganized group its 90% of the time (% pulled out of my arse) not your (the mages fault) that those talents dont work out for you. I.E you are not in controll.

Tanks have the ability to fuck you over by moving the boss out of range from your nr #1 nuke ability
DPS/Heals have the ability to make your rune "uninnhabitable"

Thats my two main reasons why they are shitty talents in a more casual raiding level. And I know for a fact that they can work out great in a more hardcore and well organized raiding enviornment, but then again, should 1% have fun or should the 99%?

They also suck for solo play. No benefit to use them what so ever in the outside world.

RoP yeah, PC not so much. Basically, PC is fun, it kills people. RoP is dull, it only allows you to "not be nerfed".

That's the main thing that annoys me to be honest. Give me something to manage, but don't be dull.

[DeiVias]

I better see this talent removed in Legion beta i swear to god.

[SherriMayim]

I really missed using Evocation. :C

[Deleted]

...people always complain...
This talent is obviously the most powerfull of damage dealers talent.
Its power is balanced by the fact that you need to stay close to the spot.

I feel like it's *fun* because it gives you a choice between mobility and dps.
There are actually some raid encounters with very poor movements needed.
In some others you can manage to constantly move in a small area or between two sweetspots.
In some others, you may need to use the glyph of rapid displacement to move out, then back into your place in a single GCD.

... it forces you to build personal ways of dodging death while gaining a high dps.

If this is not possible, you can switch to incantater's flow with no movement restrictions at all. But you'll do less dps. Even if you manage to time the 20% buff with biggest spells, it's still under the rune of power.

[Exostential]

...people always complain...
This talent is obviously the most powerfull of damage dealers talent.
Its power is balanced by the fact that you need to stay close to the spot.

I feel like it's *fun* because it gives you a choice between mobility and dps.
There are actually some raid encounters with very poor movements needed.
In some others you can manage to constantly move in a small area or between two sweetspots.
In some others, you may need to use the glyph of rapid displacement to move out, then back into your place in a single GCD.

... it forces you to build personal ways of dodging death while gaining a high dps.

If this is not possible, you can switch to incantater's flow with no movement restrictions at all. But you'll do less dps. Even if you manage to time the 20% buff with biggest spells, it's still under the rune of power.

Except many many people dont find this "fun", at all. The vast majority of other specs don't have tiers designed this way, mostly what you see is dmg cooldowns or quality of life talents to help where their class falls short. So we're left to assume this is supposed to be our design philosophy, which didn't used to be the case, and is concerning, especially after an entire expansion with MoP talents and now one where prismatic crystal reigns king. You call it complaining, I call it using discussion boards to voice concern thats hopefully listened to during future design. I would hate if my favorite class is designed around what the minority seems to think is fine.

[Frost1129]

Except many many people dont find this "fun", at all. The vast majority of other specs don't have tiers designed this way, mostly what you see is dmg cooldowns or quality of life talents to help where their class falls short. So we're left to assume this is supposed to be our design philosophy, which didn't used to be the case, and is concerning, especially after an entire expansion with MoP talents and now one where prismatic crystal reigns king. You call it complaining, I call it using discussion boards to voice concern thats hopefully listened to during future design. I would hate if my favorite class is designed around what the minority seems to think is fine.

Fun is subjective. Thank god you have other options, right? To pick the one you do find fun.

It's significantly better than MoP where it was "RoP or pick another spec". I also fail to see the merit of a "nobody else does this, why do we" argument. There is no reason every talent tree has to operate the same way. And in general we have a lot more diversity in talent choice than other classes.

[Deleted]

Except many many people dont find this "fun", at all. The vast majority of other specs don't have tiers designed this way, mostly what you see is dmg cooldowns or quality of life talents to help where their class falls short. So we're left to assume this is supposed to be our design philosophy, which didn't used to be the case, and is concerning, especially after an entire expansion with MoP talents and now one where prismatic crystal reigns king. You call it complaining, I call it using discussion boards to voice concern thats hopefully listened to during future design. I would hate if my favorite class is designed around what the minority seems to think is fine.

I have to check out the marksmanship hunter's forum. I need to see if there is the same kind of thread about there mastery that forces them to stay without moving at all if possible. With no other possible choice !!

It is true that there is very few encounters where you can fully benefit from the rune of power buff.
And, when it's possible, you also need to learn how to avoid harmfull effects without runing or blinking all around. It's a good training for many players that almost cross the map for no reason.

Perfect example about that is the first part of the fight against velhari. You just NEED to stay still all the time. When it casts infernal tempest, you just move 2 yards left, then 2 yards back to the right. Almost no displacement, maximum dps, minimum hps needed to keep you alive.
Just try to play that way on all raid bosses. It's probably one of the most difficult things to learn... which makes it fun. At least to me.

[Deleted]

It is true that there is very few encounters where you can fully benefit from the rune of power buff.

I think it's pretty clear it mainly benefits those only raiding with the exact same team and have the exact same way to do each boss every single time. It's like the whole spec of Arcane. It loves predictability or it's gimped.


Those two work together well by the way since the spec is largely stationary anyway. Other specs have mobility available and this really restricts it. Arcane is like "I'm already 60% immobile, no reason to care that much", others go from 80% mobility to 20%.

[Perudo]

Cannot say much about RoP in a raiding environment, since I have just leveled my mage to lvl 100 and gotten about 620/630 ilvl.
But RoP while leveling felt really clunky to use since you are moving/kiting very often.

[Deleted]

I think it's pretty clear it mainly benefits those only raiding with the exact same team and have the exact same way to do each boss every single time. It's like the whole spec of Arcane. It loves predictability or it's gimped.


Those two work together well by the way since the spec is largely stationary anyway. Other specs have mobility available and this really restricts it. Arcane is like "I'm already 60% immobile, no reason to care that much", others go from 80% mobility to 20%.

indeed.
Especially the prismatic cristal needs a predictible encounter.
If you could just call it "sticky prismatic cristal" and throw it to the back of your main target... it would be far more reliable.
Yet. This sticky cristal does not really fit the magical background.

- - - Updated - - -

Cannot say much about RoP in a raiding environment, since I have just leveled my mage to lvl 100 and gotten about 620/630 ilvl.
But RoP while leveling felt really clunky to use since you are moving/kiting very often.

Of course, you could use it if you have trouble soloing one NPC to kill it faster, but it's obviously not designed for leveling.

[Frost1129]

Every raid encounter is predictable >.>

[gallamann]

Personally I believe MoP is still in the game because the few mages Blizzard values the opinion of support it.

If those few people instead of sim'ing it and forming an opinion or flat out being self serving, had instead stated "hey its ok for maybe 1% of the raiding mages, but is a zero fun for the other 99% of mages.... We would not have RoP. It's the old echo chamber, 10 people all saying how good it is and never hearing the 1 million saying its horrible.

Bottom line, there is NO reason for them to force a tier that favors someone with a 1-2% gain if they play excellent with RoP, at the end of the day that is truly the difference in our 90 tier.

They have the chance right now to remove 90 tier; bake the 12% into each spec and put MI back to baseline; and replace the 90 tier with something much more interesting.

[Exostential]

Personally I believe MoP is still in the game because the few mages Blizzard values the opinion of support it.

If those few people instead of sim'ing it and forming an opinion or flat out being self serving, had instead stated "hey its ok for maybe 1% of the raiding mages, but is a zero fun for the other 99% of mages.... We would not have RoP. It's the old echo chamber, 10 people all saying how good it is and never hearing the 1 million saying its horrible.

Bottom line, there is NO reason for them to force a tier that favors someone with a 1-2% gain if they play excellent with RoP, at the end of the day that is truly the difference in our 90 tier.

They have the chance right now to remove 90 tier; bake the 12% into each spec and put MI back to baseline; and replace the 90 tier with something much more interesting.

Its why that tier made it through mop beta, just a few influential people (if not the one) arguing for it.

[KurenaiXIII]

Think y'all're crazy if you think the words of just a few people are gonna sway Blizzard to that extent, at least people outside of Blizzard.

Conspiracy-theory thinking doesn't help anyone, just makes you look a little nuts.

And, my god, it's like you actually have other choices to make other than RoP and PC!

All this bitching about 'creativity' but I haven't seen anyone make a suggestion, much less a suggestion that would be at least as thought-provoking as proper RoP and PC usage.

[Exostential]

Think y'all're crazy if you think the words of just a few people are gonna sway Blizzard to that extent, at least people outside of Blizzard.

Conspiracy-theory thinking doesn't help anyone, just makes you look a little nuts.


And, my god, it's like you actually have other choices to make other than RoP and Pc

All this bitching about 'creativity' but I haven't seen anyone make a suggestion, much less a suggestion that would be at least as thought-provoking as proper RoP and PC usage.

Except there really was one very influential mage who defended those talents while the rest of us lamented, and barring a few qol changes they stayed the whole expac. It's not "conspiracy"

Saying "pick something else" is the furthest thing from helpful for this conversation. We all know what sims the highest and what we need to take to be the biggest asset to our raid, this isn't a conversation about them being to difficult to use, the subtle jabs at skill fall flat. You can pick the highest simming talent and do well and rank and all that and still be disappointed with the direction the class has gone and try your hardest to let blizzard know you hope it doesn't continue in that direction.

[AvCloudy]

...people always complain...
This talent is obviously the most powerfull of damage dealers talent.
Its power is balanced by the fact that you need to stay close to the spot.

I feel like it's *fun* because it gives you a choice between mobility and dps.
There are actually some raid encounters with very poor movements needed.
In some others you can manage to constantly move in a small area or between two sweetspots.
In some others, you may need to use the glyph of rapid displacement to move out, then back into your place in a single GCD.

... it forces you to build personal ways of dodging death while gaining a high dps.

If this is not possible, you can switch to incantater's flow with no movement restrictions at all. But you'll do less dps. Even if you manage to time the 20% buff with biggest spells, it's still under the rune of power.

You don't get to choose between mobility or dps. The encounter determines that.

[purebalance]

No, it's not fun. Mobility is fun.

In any case, RoP isn't viable on many encounters due to constant dodging of mechanics and shifting around.

Using "fun" as an argument: Check
Crying about something that potentially gives you more dps than intended if you're good: Check
Invalid argument: Check

RoP is fine and always was. You were never balanced around 100% uptime in it. It was always intended on about 75% or less uptime. If you get more you get more free dps.

[Frost1129]

It was always intended on about 75% or less uptime.

Where does this number come from?

[Uoyredrum]

Where does this number come from?

His ass, I assume.

[Deleted]

Mobility is fun, Blizzard solved that problem with rune of power.