DOT vs DD threshhold (and more)

[wayward]

First, I'm not even remotely an advanced raider... we're only 8/13N in my guild... but we've got aspirations and I definitely need to get a better handle on playing this spec. After reflecting on my own performance last night, there are a few things I suspect I'm approaching the wrong way, and I'm hoping you folks can provide a little clarity.

1) DOTs and Direct Damage. I think I'm spending WAY too many global cooldowns casting DOTs on targets that aren't living long enough to make it worthwhile. Moonfire, in particular, since it's applied one at a time. Is there a threshhold — a minimum amount of time — that a target must live in order to make it worth applying moonfire and sunfire rather than simply casting starfire/wrath at it? I seem to have this mentality that "all of my targets must have both DOTs applied with 100% uptime or I'm a failure," but I'm starting to think that's wrong.

2) Starfall vs Starsurge. I can't keep starfall rolling and use starsurge regularly. There just aren't enough charges to do both (and I don't have that trinket that procs free starfalls with starsurges). Now then, the Icy Veins guide says with two or more targets, to use starfall. Do they really mean to use starfall to the exclusion of starsurge? Somehow that just feels counterintuitive... maybe because I'm used to seeing such big hits from empowered starfires. At three targets, I'm not skeptical, but with two — it seems like a couple empowered starfires would be stronger. But am I wrong? If there are two targets who will live for a full starfall duration, is it truly a DPS gain to use a charge on starfall instead of starsurge? Because that guide doesn't implicitly acknowledge that casting starfall means you can't cast a starsurge, I wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding something.

3) Speaking of trinkets... what should I be looking for? At the moment, my options are profoundly limited (I currently have just a chipped soul prism and a stone of the elements — because they are the things I could acquire by myself). In reading through the forums, it looks like I should be aiming for a seed of creation and a desecrated shadowmoon insignia. Is that right?

4) Balance energy cycles and starfire/wrath. Every so often, I'll begin casting, say, a starfire at a point in the cycle where, due to the cast time, the spell will launch ever-so-slightly into the solar half of the balance bar. I recognize this is not ideal. But between dealing with encounter mechanics, occasional latency, and my own fallibility, it happens — so my question is: Is it better to interrupt a starfire (and begin casting a wrath instead) when you know the starfire cast is going to end up finishing slightly inside the solar phase... or do you just go ahead and finish the cast? I will admit this is something I struggle with more often than I should, because it seems to work out semi-frequently that I've just finished casting a second empowered starfire, the lunar peak has already happened and the energy balance is on its way back to solar — and it seems like my choices are to a) begin another starfire cast, knowing it won't finish inside the lunar cycle or b) do nothing for a second and begin casting a wrath, so that it lands as soon as the "waxing" solar cycle starts. Neither of these seem like particularly great options, but I'm not sure what else to do. It's also entirely possible that my understanding of the rotation is just... wrong.

Thanks for any advice/suggestion.

[Deleted]

1) Not sure about this so won't answer

2) Yes, casting starfall (even if that means you can't cast starsurges) on 2+ targets (when in lunar) or 3+ targets (when in solar) will be a dps increase.

3) Yes, seed of creation and desecrated shadowmoon insignia is the go-to trinkets on most fights in HFC. DSI is always best, SoC have some fights where other trinkets might be better.

4) Never ever cancel a cast. Never ever wait a second to cast a spell. A starfire hitting when you just entered solar is no issue at all, it will happen fairly often, since a starfire hitting in solar is a lot better than a wrath hitting in lunar, and much much better than doing nothing for a second. Using this window to renew moonfire and/or casting a starsurge is also fairly good.

[randytaylor]

1) Dot everything that lives longer than 12 seconds. Remember your last moonfire is the one that can proc your shooting stars so if the last thing you dotted dies you have to redot something.

2) In lunar starfall beats out starsurge by a little bit with 2 targets. When you have to worry about when starsurge might be better than starfall, you'll probably have the class trinket by then. There's a spreadsheet on it, but it's going to be pointless once you get the trinket.

3) I'd say DSI and SoC for everything. Free starfalls > stats honestly, we lost the 15% int buff from ring and the starfall dmg is going to grow increasingly with gear upgrades.

4) It's better to cast starfire going into solar and having it hit lower, then starsurge, 3 wraths, wrath some more, right before you leave solar you sunfire, then moonfire as you enter lunar, starsurge, cast your 2 starfires, rinse and repeat. Trying to hit the dots at the end of peaks is going to lose you dps.

The more targets, the more dots, it might throw you off. The eclipse bar can be controlled but you're going to get more dps out of going with the flow. All you need to do is land the empowered's after the starsurge's, then use the spaces where you would filler with unempowered wraths and starfire's for multi-dotting. Obviously take into account the 12 second rule, and try to focus on priority targets.

[wayward]

Thank you both for the tips! These will help ensure I'm taking the right approach. Randy, that's interesting about the last moonfire being the one that can proc shooting stars. I'd been laboring under the delusion that all currently active moonfires could each potentially proc. A bit of a bummer that's not the case, but important to know.

(As an aside, we're 12/13N as of last night, taking down four new bosses. We even one-shot Fel Lord Zakuun. I know HFC normal is absolutely trivial to most of you, but we were super excited. And Mannoroth is my favorite boss of all time. Starfall, starfall, starfall... win.)