Death Knight MKII: Will we see a repeat of wotlk?

[Deleted]

With the new class being a hero class (like death knights),
with melee dps and tank specs (like death knight)
being dual wielder (like death knight)
and a sinister magical feel (like...death knight?)

...it got me thinking about the stuff that happened back then when death knights came along (and to a degree, monks also).
I remember how it felt like blizz took all of shaman feedback and pumped it into dk, along with our utility spells.
Am I the only one who suspects this to happen again? Aside from blizzard's usual treatment towards us, a new class with the same role as enh (melee dps), I cant help but feel that they'll put all magical-melee ideas into demon hunters now, leaving nothing for enh.
They also mentioned that demon hunters will have shitloads of mobility, one of enhance's big struggles, which is part of what got me into those doubts.

As said, am I the only one? Will demon hunters be the next "What enh could've been"-class?
Oh, and survival becoming melee, probably also taking away new melee ideas from our reach.

[Goldielocks]

Why would other classes get what enh is supposed to be getting? How does that even make sense? A shaman is nothing like a DK or DH.

[Spiffums]

IT won't be as bad as everyone thinks. Sure maybe at launch because everyone will either level 1 right off the bat or right after they level their main.

[Toppy]

Can't half that apply to Monk (and the sinister part is pointless, and the hero part just meaning they start at a high level, thus, also pointless)?

Monk was a duel wielder
Monk had a tank and a dps spec
Sinister has zero effect on how it will be balanced
Starting at a high level will have no effect on end level balance

[Muadiib]

I believe the Artifact system will counteract that nicely, I for one am really excited to unlock the new forms for my Feral druid, I can't be the only one.

[Deleted]

Why would other classes get what enh is supposed to be getting? How does that even make sense? A shaman is nothing like a DK or DH.

Death Knights upon their entrance felt like superior enhancement shamans. They got a lot of stuff which was unique to us, but better. They also got a lot of stuff we had been asking for during tbc. A neat gap closer, being able to go 2h and dw and being good in both, better water walk, they covered most of the raid buffs we brought as well, a recource system, a legendary, and more. And both enh and dk are battle mages, so they are similar.

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IT won't be as bad as everyone thinks. Sure maybe at launch because everyone will either level 1 right off the bat or right after they level their main.

I am not concerned wether or not many will play DH, I am concerned wether or not stuff that should go to us will not happen and instead go towards DH.

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Can't half that apply to Monk (and the sinister part is pointless, and the hero part just meaning they start at a high level, thus, also pointless)?

Monk was a duel wielder
Monk had a tank and a dps spec
Sinister has zero effect on how it will be balanced
Starting at a high level will have no effect on end level balance

Well, yes. Hence

(and to a degree, monks also)

The different points served more as a high lighter to just how similar this situation is to wotlk. There were also things about monks that made me feel that way, namely a functional stun, awesome mobility, statues being better totems, a spiritual tiger guardian = feral spirit, non-rng offheal, another dual recource class, etc etc.
They are also battle-mageish, so yeah, so far all new classes so far are enh competition when it comes to getting melee attention from the devs.
I guess monks are/were not that much on the radar for me as I skipped mop entirely, and only watched from the mmo-c sidelines.

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I believe the Artifact system will counteract that nicely, I for one am really excited to unlock the new forms for my Feral druid, I can't be the only one.

How so? Not saying I doubt you, I just dont know what you mean? How are artifact weapons gonna give enh what it needs in development, or prevent from DH/new SV hogging it for themselves?

[Toppy]

I dont know, but it is fact that dks got a lot of stuff that shamans, esp enh, had been asking for. A neat gap closer, being able to go 2h and dw and being good in both, better water walk, they covered most of the raid buffs we brought as well, a recource system, a legendary, and more. And both enh and dk are battle mages, so they are similar.

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I am not concerned wether or not many will play DH, I am concerned wether or not stuff that should go to us will not happen and instead go towards DH.

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Well, yes. Hence
The different points served more as a high lighter to just how similar this situation is to wotlk. There were also things about monks that made me feel that way, namely a functional stun, awesome mobility, statues being better totems, a spiritual tiger guardian = feral spirit, non-rng offheal, another dual recource class, etc etc.
They are also battle-mageish, so yeah, so far all new classes so far are enh competition when it comes to getting melee attention from the devs.
I guess monks are/were not that much on the radar for me as I skipped mop entirely, and only watched from the mmo-c sidelines.

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How so? Not saying I doubt you, I just dont know what you mean? How are artifact weapons gonna give enh what it needs in development, or prevent from DH/new SV hogging it for themselves?

Well the Demon Hunter is more in common with Monk honestly, from a gameplay standpoint

Lightly armored
Heavy focus on mobility


It has nothing in common with DK that Monk doesnt also have from a gameplay standpoint. As far as we know.

[Deleted]

Armor and mobility point towards monk, yes, while hero class, dark fighter theme point connect with dk.
The point here isn't though wether or not monk has more in common with DH than dk, but wether or not DH, just like (yes, monk also) both previous two new classes likely cost us quite a lot of development (that is to say, enh was treated like shit in cata/wod as well, so it might not matter wether or not there's a new class).

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I believe the Artifact system will counteract that nicely, I for one am really excited to unlock the new forms for my Feral druid, I can't be the only one.

The team hasn't decided if there will be another talent row or not, as the Artifact weapon will have a decent number of choices for you to make.

I believe this is what you mean. Is there any word on how exactly those artifacts are gonna work? It may be that theres one effect per new weapon skin and that's it. Unlikely to solve our issues, and if it did, we'd be back to square one next x-pack :/.

[Toppy]

Armor and mobility point towards monk, yes, while hero class, dark fighter theme point connect with dk.
The point here isn't though wether or not monk has more in common with DH than dk, but wether or not DH, just like (yes, monk also) both previous two new classes likely cost us quite a lot of development (that is to say, enh was treated like shit in cata/wod as well, so it might not matter wether or not there's a new class).

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I believe this is what you mean. Is there any word on how exactly those artifacts are gonna work? It may be that theres one effect per new weapon skin and that's it. Unlikely to solve our issues, and if it did, we'd be back to square one next x-pack :/.

Your weapon has a old school talent tree. Your weapons model doesnt effect that and is chosen on a different interface.

[micgre8162]

With the new class being a hero class (like death knights),
with melee dps and tank specs (like death knight)
being dual wielder (like death knight)
and a sinister magical feel (like...death knight?)

...it got me thinking about the stuff that happened back then when death knights came along (and to a degree, monks also).
I remember how it felt like blizz took all of shaman feedback and pumped it into dk, along with our utility spells.
Am I the only one who suspects this to happen again? Aside from blizzard's usual treatment towards us, a new class with the same role as enh (melee dps), I cant help but feel that they'll put all magical-melee ideas into demon hunters now, leaving nothing for enh.
They also mentioned that demon hunters will have shitloads of mobility, one of enhance's big struggles, which is part of what got me into those doubts.

As said, am I the only one? Will demon hunters be the next "What enh could've been"-class?
Oh, and survival becoming melee, probably also taking away new melee ideas from our reach.

Well, since everything that is good and unique about shaman has already been stolen and redistributed to the other classes, I guess that means they won't rape our uniqueness again. So, yeah, silver lining.

I would like to see some development effort put into Shaman to address our core deficiencies. I doubt it'll happen. The problem with Shaman is that it isn't as popular as other classes such as Hunter and Druid, so it gets corresponding less attention.

[Deleted]

Well, since everything that is good and unique about shaman has already been stolen and redistributed to the other classes, I guess that means they won't rape our uniqueness again. So, yeah, silver lining.

I would like to see some development effort put into Shaman to address our core deficiencies. I doubt it'll happen. The problem with Shaman is that it isn't as popular as other classes such as Hunter and Druid, so it gets corresponding less attention.

Well, I think you might be wrong. There's hardly anything good about shamans atm, but there's still kinda unique stuff in VERY limited amounts.
Capacitor totem afaik is the only 5s duration aoe stun. It is the worst stun due to it's many restrictions though. Now looking at Demon Hunter mentioned abilities:

Demon Hunter

Abilities
Chaos Nova - 30 Fury, Instant, 1 min cooldown. Unleash an eruption of fel energy, stunning all nearby enemies for 5 sec and dealing 5,772 Chaos damage.

So basically one of the last unique to shaman, crappy as you can imagine abilities gets distributed to Demon Hunter, but as an instant, with damage. The 15s higher cd wont matter, imo.

Demon Hunters wear Leather and can use Daggers, Fist Weapons, One-Handed Axes, One-Handed Maces, and One-Handed Swords.

Also, the 3rd agi melee sharing gear with us that, yet again, can weild all we can, plus swords. While I "think" weapon itemisation has become less an issue over the years, demon hunters basically scream for swords, so expect quite a lot of no-shaman-weapons, while not in legion due to artifacts, expect it in the x-packs to come.

And while they cant take all that much more from us, DH serves as a nice little opportunity to give new stuff that we would've liked/needed to the new class again.

I agree that shamans aren't as popular as aother classes, but that's gotta be largely blizzard's fault for keeping the class almost unattended for a decade, compared to others.

[Jimmyx]

Giving us another melee dps class is just a joke imo.
All melee dps specs are already in extremely hard spot when every raiding guild keep trying to reduce melee dps numbers in thei raid and have more and more ranged dps.
I can't see the point in adding DH class in the game.
1. If DH is extremely powerfull, everyone will take them instead of "old" melee specs. Enha shaman, ww monk and maybe ret paladins are in very bad stop even without DH in the game
2. If DH turns out to be just weak, there won't be a point in adding this class to the game since no one wants melee dps classes in the raid so why add one more that is not good enough.

13 melee dps specs in Legion vs 11 ranged dps specs is just stupid in the game where it doesn;t pay off to take malee dps to the raid...

[Deleted]

Giving us another melee dps class is just a joke imo.
All melee dps specs are already in extremely hard spot when every raiding guild keep trying to reduce melee dps numbers in thei raid and have more and more ranged dps.
I can't see the point in adding DH class in the game.
1. If DH is extremely powerfull, everyone will take them instead of "old" melee specs. Enha shaman, ww monk and maybe ret paladins are in very bad stop even without DH in the game
2. If DH turns out to be just weak, there won't be a point in adding this class to the game since no one wants melee dps classes in the raid so why add one more that is not good enough.

13 melee dps specs in Legion vs 11 ranged dps specs is just stupid in the game where it doesn;t pay off to take malee dps to the raid...

Here you are assuming that specs from other classes wont be going from Melee ---> Ranged

Wait 'till Beta

[shammypie]

Here you are assuming that specs from other classes wont be going from Melee ---> Ranged

Wait 'till Beta

I'm pretty sure survival hunter is the only one that is switching as the only other good target was rogues and they already confirmed then not changing at all. The rest are already too varied for it to matter or it just makes it worse (warlocks and mages).

[Deleted]

Yeah I'm really pissed off they're giving Demon Hunters glaives and spectral sight, those were totally for Shamans!

/s