So they're giving hunters a melee spec

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anyone else find it kinda messed up that instead of maybe revamping demo into a demon hunter type spec they completely destroy it to make a completely new demon hunter class and then they go and do a ranged to melee revamp for hunters? They're even giving them a petless spec for jeez sake.

That to me was just a knife in the back.Wasn't one of the reasons they nerfed our grim of sac was because they said warlocks are a pet class and they wanted to make sure people played them as one.Then they go ahead and give hunter this exact thing but as a whole spec. It already sucks that everyone one of their specs has a better, stronger and more durable pet than ours but then do give them this option as well?


I mean all this sucks, but what sucks even more is the fact that hunters are the ones who need a revamp the least. If you want to talk spec identity then why not do something for rogues? Or howabout fixing the issues with shamans? Heck Mages could use some looking into too, but no instead they do this.


it sucks that we lost demo's theme to demon hunters, but what sucks more is the fact that they purposely let demo get to this crappy state it's in to justify removing it's theme and giving to demon hunters. Bravo blizzard...bravo

[Imnick]

They have much more freedom to do interesting things adding a new class than they do by trying to squash the whole concept of "demon hunters" into one spec of an existing class that is entirely based on spellcasting and doesn't wear leather.

Survival and Marksmanship Hunter specs were virtually identical. So are Rogue specs, and guess what, they're revamping those too. Warlocks have some of the most diverse spec identity of any class.

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Warlocks have some of the most diverse spec identity of any class.

you seemed to jump on this as you're ending statement. My gripe isn't that warlocks need a revamp, as for warlocks I'm just kinda pissed that they do things like say warlocks are a pet class then give hunter a petless spec(the poster child of pet based classes). That and pretty much how they handled going about letting demo get to the bad state it's in purposely to make people care less about losing it's theme.

My bigger issue is that they're doing something like changing a spec from ranged to melee while other classes could use more looking at than them. That and now that they changed demo they have to put more time and effort salvaging and fixing what's left of the spec when they already did a huge revamp to the class. That could have been more time spent on other classes.

[Imnick]

Other classes did not need more looking at than them. Hunters, Rogues, and Shamans were the three classes that needed most looking at and we've already got confirmation that the first two are getting attention.
Survival and Marksmanship were virtually identical, and impossible to tell apart from each other at a glance. The same is true of Rogues.

We only need the third (Shamans) as well and that'll be that, but Shaman's changes are more to do with outdated mechanics rather than a lack of identity. They need balance tuning and a totem rethink, but those aren't as exciting as hype talking points than "we're bringing back identity".

[Deleted]

you seemed to jump on this as you're ending statement. My gripe isn't that warlocks need a revamp, as for warlocks I'm just kinda pissed that they do things like say warlocks are a pet class then give hunter a petless spec(the poster child of pet based classes). That and pretty much how they handled going about letting demo get to the bad state it's in purposely to make people care less about losing it's theme.

My bigger issue is that they're doing something like changing a spec from ranged to melee while other classes could use more looking at than them. That and now that they changed demo they have to put more time and effort salvaging and fixing what's left of the spec when they already did a huge revamp to the class. That could have been more time spent on other classes.

I'm 100% honest when saying this.

I dont think your points have any merit :/

Edit:

That could come across pretty harsh. But honestly Demonology has so much more potential then the demonform. It should be about tons of small imps running around doing your bidding, or a large demonlike monster.

It fits so much more that demon hutners have the demonform.

Not all change is bad.


I also really dont see the problem with hutners getting a melee spec. Survival was actually used as a melee spec during a short while in wrath

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I'm 100% honest when saying this.

I dont think your points have any merit :/

it's a good thing that regardless of honesty that you're post is purely based off of opinion,not to say that mine isn't either, but at least I'm not saying someone's opinion or viewpoint doesn't have any merit behind it that would be rude. You know if your post seemed somewhat condescending in tone so I think you missed the spot if you were trying to be polite.

[Deleted]

it's a good thing that regardless of honesty that you're post is purely based off of opinion,not to say that mine isn't either, but at least I'm not saying someone's opinion or viewpoint doesn't have any merit behind it that would be rude. You know if your post seemed somewhat condescending in tone so I think you missed the spot if you were trying to be polite.

I actually didnt do it to be rude. Whatever way you want to read it is up to you.

I used merit because there is no where in your first post i see anything backing up your statements. Just you saying stuff you dont like and calling them facts:

1st. random fact:
"they completely destroy it to make a completely new demon hunter class"

2nd.:
"It already sucks that everyone one of their specs has a better, stronger and more durable pet than ours but then do give them this option as well?"

3rd:
"I mean all this sucks, but what sucks even more is the fact that hunters are the ones who need a revamp the least."

4th:
"but what sucks more is the fact that they purposely let demo get to this crappy state it's in to justify removing it's theme and giving to demon hunters"


Here are 4 baseless facts that you dont even care trying to argument for. You jsut fire them off as facts and geet offended when someone calls you out for it

[Ornerybear]

That could come across pretty harsh. But honestly Demonology has so much more potential then the demonform. It should be about tons of small imps running around doing your bidding, or a large demonlike monster.

It fits so much more that demon hutners have the demonform.

Not all change is bad.


I also really dont see the problem with hutners getting a melee spec. Survival was actually used as a melee spec during a short while in wrath

I agree with this as a warlock and as a hunter.

I recently started really enjoying demo spec, but tbh the transformation is irritating and i don't enjoy it, its just this extra clicking to have access to more abilities which i could be slotting? i enjoy my imps poping up and just crushing everything around me with spells and my pet.

warlocks whole thing is demons really, so they have to have a pet (or atleast i think thats the logic)

this expansion hunters were able to pick up a talent too gain power if they dont have a pet out. people loved it and used it. (lone wolf) and also a lot of people missed having melee as a hunter. i think the idea of really adding this level of diversity to the three specs is good.

[Stormfury]

At least hunters and warlocks get reworks while shaman and rogues cry in a corner after multiple expansions of unfulfilled promises from Blizzard.

[Duckz0rs]

At least hunters and warlocks get reworks while shaman and rogues cry in a corner after multiple expansions of unfulfilled promises from Blizzard.

Rogues are getting a rework too. No clue why Shamans are being passed up again though... Maybe (hopefully) still to be announced? They definitely deserve one to be sure.

[Imnick]

Shamans don't need a "spec identity" rework, they just need some retuning and totem patches.
All they've talked about right now is specs that are too similar to other specs and are going to be made more different, that's not a problem shamans have.

[Kashii]

I'm not sure if I've stumbled into the Hunter, rogue or shaman forum. The only thing that makes me believe that I'm still in the warlock forum is the bitching about Demon Hunters.

There are enough toxic threads in this forum already on the subject. Why create a new one just to give a "different spin" on why you're butt hurt over the new class. Go post in one of those.

Either that or save the thread and focus on suggestions like Demo becoming a melee spec.

Then again, there are already suggestion threads too.

[Joodoc]

anyone else find it kinda messed up that instead of maybe revamping demo into a demon hunter type spec they completely destroy it to make a completely new demon hunter class and then they go and do a ranged to melee revamp for hunters? They're even giving them a petless spec for jeez sake.

That to me was just a knife in the back.Wasn't one of the reasons they nerfed our grim of sac was because they said warlocks are a pet class and they wanted to make sure people played them as one.Then they go ahead and give hunter this exact thing but as a whole spec. It already sucks that everyone one of their specs has a better, stronger and more durable pet than ours but then do give them this option as well?


I mean all this sucks, but what sucks even more is the fact that hunters are the ones who need a revamp the least. If you want to talk spec identity then why not do something for rogues? Or howabout fixing the issues with shamans? Heck Mages could use some looking into too, but no instead they do this.


it sucks that we lost demo's theme to demon hunters, but what sucks more is the fact that they purposely let demo get to this crappy state it's in to justify removing it's theme and giving to demon hunters. Bravo blizzard...bravo

You act like we know all about how they will treat all of the classes, when we don't. We know the revamp to hunter, they are doing that because they want all the specs of a class to be unique. They will do something like that, probably, for all the classes. They have mentioned they are making diff rogue specs different ways. They also might bring back sack for one of the lock specs. We don't know.

[pvw1075]

I actually didnt do it to be rude. Whatever way you want to read it is up to you.

I used merit because there is no where in your first post i see anything backing up your statements. Just you saying stuff you dont like and calling them facts:

1st. random fact:
"they completely destroy it to make a completely new demon hunter class"

2nd.:
"It already sucks that everyone one of their specs has a better, stronger and more durable pet than ours but then do give them this option as well?"

3rd:
"I mean all this sucks, but what sucks even more is the fact that hunters are the ones who need a revamp the least."

4th:
"but what sucks more is the fact that they purposely let demo get to this crappy state it's in to justify removing it's theme and giving to demon hunters"


Here are 4 baseless facts that you dont even care trying to argument for. You jsut fire them off as facts and geet offended when someone calls you out for it

This guy gets it.

I'm sorry but the mass amount of whine coming from the warlock forums makes me ashamed of my class.

[Prada]

Warlocks were once Mages who decided to pursue demonic magics instead of following the arcane path.
Since when are casters proficient in melee combat?

Rexxar, the most popular beast master character in warcraft, is a melee, dual weilding half-orc, with a pet........
The BM spec should have been melee a long time ago, this is overdue and finally going to make sense.

Taking the iconic demon hunter class and making it a single spec for one specific class is a dishonor to what is really is.
Demon hunters seek to eliminate all demonic beings and are examples of becoming what you hate.
Demonology Warlocks seek to harness the power of demons to do their bidding.
Illidan in particular acquired some warlock abilities and demonic powers because of the path he took, he believed that in order to defeat his enemy he had to use their power against them. What better way to understand your enemy?

Demon Hunters are in no way affiliated with Warlocks and in fact i think that if not for our common goals, Warlocks would become prey to Demon Hunters.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

anyone else find it kinda messed up that instead of maybe revamping demo into a demon hunter type spec they completely destroy it to make a completely new demon hunter class and then they go and do a ranged to melee revamp for hunters? They're even giving them a petless spec for jeez sake.

That to me was just a knife in the back.Wasn't one of the reasons they nerfed our grim of sac was because they said warlocks are a pet class and they wanted to make sure people played them as one.Then they go ahead and give hunter this exact thing but as a whole spec. It already sucks that everyone one of their specs has a better, stronger and more durable pet than ours but then do give them this option as well?


I mean all this sucks, but what sucks even more is the fact that hunters are the ones who need a revamp the least. If you want to talk spec identity then why not do something for rogues? Or howabout fixing the issues with shamans? Heck Mages could use some looking into too, but no instead they do this.


it sucks that we lost demo's theme to demon hunters, but what sucks more is the fact that they purposely let demo get to this crappy state it's in to justify removing it's theme and giving to demon hunters. Bravo blizzard...bravo

That's a whole lot of bitching without really knowing anything. I mean for all we REALLY know is that specs are finally being given real meaning and focus beyond a slight alternative in playstyle (which is a good thing) and yet we're already getting a ton of complaining when people don't know exactly how it will all fall just yet.

Demonology is getting a heavier focus on demons for the obvious. You never know. Destruction may be a demonless focused spec. WAIT FOR MORE INFORMATION. Even if it isn't, big deal, get over it. If you don't like pets play a class that doesn't specialize in them. That sure as hell wasn't ever really Warlock throughout much of my career as one. I'd at least give it until Blizzcon before going crazy that someone is getting this or that over your pick of class. It's too early for it!

Not too mention maybe a little self-centered. My main concern for the class is an Affliction spec that actually feels like you're really tearing someone apart from the inside out through curses and damage over time spells. A Demonology spec that properly incorporates as much instead of the bizarre mashup that it was throughout WoD. I think many feel similarly. They want the specs more diverse and properly represented.

Being able to melee was the last thing on my mind at any given time when I rolled the class. From both a practical and lore perspective, it just doesn't fit. It's completely out of place. Where as the Hunter does make quite a bit of sense and I'm actually really excited to see what they do with Survival as a result. May even main Survival come Legion since my L100 from WoD (only one I could get that far) is a Hunter.

[Deleted]

Warlocks were once Mages who decided to pursue demonic magics instead of following the arcane path.
Since when are casters proficient in melee combat?

Rexxar, the most popular beast master character in warcraft, is a melee, dual weilding half-orc, with a pet........
The BM spec should have been melee a long time ago, this is overdue and finally going to make sense.

Taking the iconic demon hunter class and making it a single spec for one specific class is a dishonor to what is really is.
Demon hunters seek to eliminate all demonic beings and are examples of becoming what you hate.
Demonology Warlocks seek to harness the power of demons to do their bidding.
Illidan in particular acquired some warlock abilities and demonic powers because of the path he took, he believed that in order to defeat his enemy he had to use their power against them. What better way to understand your enemy?

Demon Hunters are in no way affiliated with Warlocks and in fact i think that if not for our common goals, Warlocks would become prey to Demon Hunters.

This guy gets it. Warlocks are selfish and give no fucks to killing demons. All they care about is power. Demon hunters are more like selfless avengers. Fighting fire with fire no matter the cost to kill the legion for the greater good.

[Duckz0rs]

This guy gets it. Warlocks are selfish and give no fucks to killing demons. All they care about is power. Demon hunters are more like selfless avengers. Fighting fire with fire no matter the cost to kill the legion for the greater good.

Selfless avengers? That's (Retribution) Paladins, like Tirion Fordring. Demon Hunters are more selfish avengers, their hatred of demons becoming all-consuming rage and their only driving point. Paladins exact vengeance as justice, serving the Light. Demon Hunters serve, like Warlocks, only themselves and enact only revenge in their own name.
Look at how, at the end of the Frozen Throne, Illidan willingly served Kil'jaeden, and thus the Legion. Sure, his goal was to eliminate a possibly great threat, but he aligned himself willingly with a far greater threat that he supposedly hates so much.

Absolutely correct though that Warlocks and Demon Hunters, despite VERY loosely sharing a common goal (power), are very little alike.

[scrappybristol]

Demonology was too meta focused imo.

Build up demonic fury, meta, demon bolt, rinse and repeat. Your minion barely mattered.

I hope they revamp demo into a sort of general with a small army at his beck and call and one beefy, hard hitting bodyguard.

Demonic version of Undead Army, an ability similar to the dire beast from the hunter talent tree, empowering your minions to apply shadowflame, etc.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

anyone else find it kinda messed up that instead of maybe revamping demo into a demon hunter type spec they completely destroy it to make a completely new demon hunter class and then they go and do a ranged to melee revamp for hunters? They're even giving them a petless spec for jeez sake.

No. There's no evidence of 'destroying' the spec, even the removal of metamorphosis hasn't been confirmed. The demon hunter should always have been its own class, it's just so different to how locks work, to what they conceptually are. Who cares if they were to make hunters petless. That's not what demo is. Demo is the opposite of that, we're all about our summons, heck that's why they removed sac.

That to me was just a knife in the back.Wasn't one of the reasons they nerfed our grim of sac was because they said warlocks are a pet class and they wanted to make sure people played them as one.Then they go ahead and give hunter this exact thing but as a whole spec. It already sucks that everyone one of their specs has a better, stronger and more durable pet than ours but then do give them this option as well?

They removed sac for DEMO as it is the pet spec, it sees high usage on Destro and Aff. Their pets are stronger? That's why locks are getting their pet spec revamped and hunters are losing pets from one of their specs.

I mean all this sucks, but what sucks even more is the fact that hunters are the ones who need a revamp the least. If you want to talk spec identity then why not do something for rogues? Or howabout fixing the issues with shamans? Heck Mages could use some looking into too, but no instead they do this.

Hunters ARE in need of a revamp because they're all just "shoot stuff". I agree regarding rogues, and so do Blizzard. They have since confirmed that they are getting a rework. As for Shaman and Mages, I don't think they need a variety revamp but we don't know everything about Legion yet. We barely know anything. There's every chance that these classes will get some form of change to improve identity, since they HAVE confirmed that this is what they want Legion to be about.

it sucks that we lost demo's theme to demon hunters, but what sucks more is the fact that they purposely let demo get to this crappy state it's in to justify removing it's theme and giving to demon hunters. Bravo blizzard...bravo

I agree that smacking demo into the ground was spectacularly dumb (not that I care, still rolling it through HFC HC), but I don't agree that we're losing our theme. We're all about our summons to me, heck the reason I rolled a demo lock was the idea of armies of imps, I love that we're having our army be worth something. I get why you're annoyed about the loss of meta (which I again stress is NOT confirmed), but if that's the most important aspect of your character, you can always roll a demon hunter.