[DK] Timewalking and gear!

[cashballer]

Really? I tried it this week and it seemed to be pretty volatile, going from 2% to 7%. My problem is, though, that there aren't other sets with much better bonus than T15-dps and has enough sockets. T12 (ICC) tank set might come close, but it has dodge and parry on it.

Which one did 2-7%, T12 or T15? I didn't mention, but my numbers were as Blood (tanking), so the T12 bonus is a huge portion of my single-target damage (probably bigger than it would be for Frost/UH). As for the T15 set bonus, it never went above 2% of my damage, so I stopped trying it.

Anyone find any good spells to Dark Simulacrum in BC dungeons? I couldn't find anything good in MT, BM, or SH. Maybe something in Arc.

[Saiyendra]

Pyroblast in Black Morass hits for ~12k. You can also steal some really weird debuffs, but I haven't found anything else yet.

[igmo]

As for the T15 set bonus, it never went above 2% of my damage, so I stopped trying it.

What are you using over it? None of the other options are particularly exciting, either.

[Deleted]

I am encouraging u to read previous pages, not only last posts ^^

FROST
SOO 4set + garrosh legs

BLOOD
FL 2set +SOO 2set (dps one for stats and socket bonuses, not for the 2set bonus itself) + garrosh/ICC BA legs"

Looks best (??)

For Blood FL 2set is GLORIOUS = NR1 MUST HAVE

http://www.wowdb.com/items/50706-tin...ation-in-a-jar looks like 8-13 % total dmg from 3 dungs (can do a lot of burst dmg, still need more data) but i am using Chilblains and just rushing for big pulls, then DnD and pop all stuff so it doesnt show full power this way.

(Tests made on 91 twink, cause 100 level didnt drop Jar, and dont have bis gear... 91 only missing TOGC 2slots ring, which dropped on 100 dk today, but i have better WoD 5 man HC http://www.wowhead.com/item=109777/u...&bonus=523:524 63 mastery 63 armor and gem slot - 75 multi = in TW 8 mastery 8 BA 20 multi, makes me think if it was multi+BA+socket = BIS ring 2gether with 715 one with proc)

For next TW event i m gonna get FULL BIS on 100 lev DK, will do a LOT MORE DMG than 91 DK (i can even see it now having worse gear on 100 level)

2morrow will try to post some screenshots, but i think it is 1 of best trinkets if u have no access to Vial or HFC ones (also dont have HFC trinkets, even that i think they are BIS - cleave+dot ones)

Also after some tests i am dissapointed about http://www.wowdb.com/items/50362-deathbringers-will looks like http://www.wowdb.com/items/102305-thoks-tail-tip is better ^^
14 mastery 4 haste and 156 Strength for 20 secs!!! (15% chance, 115 sec cooldown)
DBW is 20 CRIT, same GCD with 30 secs RANDOM PROC (keyword RANDOM) 90 str, crit OR haste (not best stats, especially for blood)

I used a half-complete CM set (has multistrike on every slot) with the 715 DPS legendary ring

I mean... 715 ilev ring is not LEGENDARY, it is still EPIC, sorry for being picky (plz dont hate me!) sometimes single detail can change everything :P

[isaac2314]

Which one did 2-7%, T12 or T15? I didn't mention, but my numbers were as Blood (tanking), so the T12 bonus is a huge portion of my single-target damage (probably bigger than it would be for Frost/UH). As for the T15 set bonus, it never went above 2% of my damage, so I stopped trying it.

Anyone find any good spells to Dark Simulacrum in BC dungeons? I couldn't find anything good in MT, BM, or SH. Maybe something in Arc.

Sorry misremembered tier numbers - most of the time the T15 (ToT) set isn't great (usually doing only around 2-3%), but there are some fights when it does up to 8% damage. On trash packs it can get summoned at the end and just die without hitting much, but I think it's a solid boost on boss fights. This is as Blood tanking.

Whichever set it was, the one with burning blood, I used as well, and it was good. I was talking about T10 (ICC) set though, as a possible replacement for T15(ToT).


As was said, pyroblast in Black Morass. And maybe some curses, debuffs, and the like. But most of the trash packs don't live long enough for me to really use them. Maybe some bosses have useful spells, but it's hard to tell for sure since many of them are instant-casts.

[igmo]

I am encouraging u to read previous pages, not only last posts ^^

I have been keeping up with the thread since the beginning and was asking cashballer, not you. Perhaps I didn't make that clear, but no sweat. I saw your suggestion and do not agree with it. The T16 dps set bonus does nothing for blood, and swapping crit to mastery won't get you the damage the zombies can do, however small that is.

Fel Burn has dropped off a bit for me since the last event. Tiny Abomination proc is pretty soundly outperforming it. Fel Cleave, Flurry of Xuen, and multistrikes can add motes of anger and they do not have a temporary cap like Shadowmourne. On the other hand, at ilvl 95 the jar has 10 crit and the horn has 25 strength, and my horn has a socket. So Jar is a big loser on stats. It's hard to say which is better.

DC, EDH, and Jar are all weak in Black Morass. It might be better to use a proc or on-use trinket there, as the proc is recovering when you're out of combat. Just a thought.

[Deleted]

I have been keeping up with the thread since the beginning and was asking cashballer, not you. Perhaps I didn't make that clear, but no sweat. I saw your suggestion and do not agree with it. The T16 dps set bonus does nothing for blood, and swapping crit to mastery won't get you the damage the zombies can do, however small that is.

So u probably saw Ariakan's post "T16 4pc as frost- 8% of total damage came from Frozen Power as DW, and that SOO 4set has a lot of sockets)

"crit to mastery" i dont understand, im dropping crit for haste, for less downtime, and haste helps with procs (Jar/Cloak) correct me if im wrong.

T16 2set for Blood (said that before) is not about bonus, but about sockets, u can just farm crit mastery instead of haste mastery SOO gear, many options there.

Seems like the only tank alternative:

"20% DnD dmg" http://www.wowhead.com/itemset=898/scourgelords-plate but not gonna use it, cause stats are just terrible

"Removes the Rune cost of your Rune Tap ability" http://www.wowhead.com/itemset=-702/...-consuming-maw much better

I know people mentioned both before, just putting it 2gether.

[igmo]

So u probably saw Ariakan's post "T16 4pc as frost- 8% of total damage came from Frozen Power as DW, and that SOO 4set has a lot of sockets)

Talking about Blood, as cashballer said. There are plenty of other options for DPS specs.

"crit to mastery" i dont understand, im dropping crit for haste, for less downtime, and haste helps with procs (Jar/Cloak) correct me if im wrong.

Sure, you'll get more procs, but those procs can crit. It wasn't better when those items were current and I doubt it's better now. Crit to Mastery is the difference between the stats on T15 and T16 helm and chest. The other differences are the helm bonus and the socket colors. This is what you get wearing T15 dps over T16:

Not sure, but I'm leaning toward "better":
The pieces have crit instead of mastery.
The sockets are different colors.

Worse:
The helm has a crit socket bonus instead of a strength one.

Better:
Zombie trolls will attack your enemies.

My opinion is that T15 dps helm/chest are much better than T16.

T16 2set for Blood (said that before) is not about bonus, but about sockets, u can just farm crit mastery instead of haste mastery SOO gear, many options there.

T15 chest also has 3 sockets. They're not all red, but you've already said you're not using 10str gems.

Seems like the only tank alternative:

"20% DnD dmg" but not gonna use it, cause stats are just terrible

"Removes the Rune cost of your Rune Tap ability" much better

DnD/Defile would need to be a much larger portion of our damage to justify T10. It's not for me.

I had assumed the T15 tank pieces would have stamina socket bonuses, but they have crit! And they have crit/mastery for stats! That might actually be pretty good.

I have logged out in my TW gear and will continue to do so for the next few days. Igmo on US-Hyjal. I'm very happy with it, but there are a few minor upgrades I would make if I had the items. I briefly tested Tiny Abom and the proc did more damage than Fel Burn but at ilvl 95 it has 10 crit where my horn has 25 str and a socket.

[Deleted]

lol http://www.wowdb.com/items/109262-dr...osophers-stone vs http://www.wowdb.com/items/75274-zen-alchemist-stone (Zen lower ilev and 19 mastery in TW vs 13 mastery, funny...)

+19 Mastery
Equip: When you heal or deal damage you have a chance to increase your Strength, Agility, or Intellect by 104 for 15 sec.

not that bad (if u cant get WoD trinkets/other ones didnt drop yet...)

[Deleted]

I know I asked before but since I got no answer I thought I'd ask again. What consumables are you guys running with in tw's? I started using some old elixirs that gave me like 25 strength and 60?? armor (can't remember the exact values and I'm on the phone atm so can't link them) and since they can be used together they give more AP than a wod 250 str flask. I haven't really tested any old foods/pre-pots, if any of you have then I'd love to hear the results

[Deleted]

I just saw quite interresting trink for DW frost (was doing FL and vendor sells this) http://www.wowhead.com/item=69002/es...-eternal-flame
+19 Mastery (0.17 @ L100)
Use: Increases your Strength by 64 for 15 sec. (1 Min Cooldown) (pretty low str but same CD as pillar ^^)
usually trinkets have +-100 str but 1 min 30 secs or 2 mins cd/gcd

[Ruunicus]

So I tested the Mastery conversion rate in BC TW. It appears that 7.94 Mastery = 1%.

So 10 Strength = 10 Attack Power... and 20 Mastery = 15.56 Attack Power. I believe it safe to say that gemming Mastery is simply better than gemming strength.

It results in i.e. 21 sockets filled with 10 Strength = 210 Attack Power OR 21 sockets filled 20 Mastery = 333.48 Attack Power. That's actually quite significant as well as a major boost to your Blood Shield.

Does this mean the Blood DK stat priority is Multistrike > Mastery > Bonus Armour > Strength ??? Looks that way to me.

Again, thanks Evilfury for setting me straight on Strength vs. Mastery

[Saiyendra]

So I tested the Mastery conversion rate in BC TW. It appears that 7.94 Mastery = 1%.

So 10 Strength = 10 Attack Power... and 20 Mastery = 15.56 Attack Power. I believe it safe to say that gemming Mastery is simply better than gemming strength.

Does this mean the Blood DK stat priority is Multistrike > Mastery > Bonus Armour > Strength ??? Looks that way to me.

You are comparing 10 strength to 20 mastery. Moreover 10 strength is not 10 AP - you're neglecting Rune of the Fallen Crusader and Kings (4-5% depending on whether you have someone in your group with the buff).

The stat priority is Strength > BA > MS > others.

[Deleted]

You are comparing 10 strength to 20 mastery. Moreover 10 strength is not 10 AP - you're neglecting Rune of the Fallen Crusader and Kings (4-5% depending on whether you have someone in your group with the buff).

The stat priority is Strength > BA > MS > others.

Let me summ it up...

"It results in i.e. 21 sockets filled with 10 Strength + kings = 220,5 Attack Power (with fallen crusader 220,5 + 20% = 260,6) OR 21 sockets filled 20 Mastery = 333.48 Attack Power..."

I cant believe in ur post :P

21 x 10 str gems vs 21 x 20 mastery gems
260,6 AP vs 333,48 AP (and huge shield)

Worst thing is thinking like everyone else, blindly following the crowd... Open your mind, like Ruunicus did He just calculated it for u, unless u can explain how 260,6 AP is better than 333,48 AP

Skipping STR in priority, cause we are talking about GEMS/ENCHANTS, another reason why i am using 14 mastery vs 16 str on bracers btw.

It is so obvious 100str>100 mastery or any other stat except armor, but please, get over ur ego and THINK

--> for TW, in terms of DMG+average surv (who cares about turtle style in TW especially if u are using Chilblains)

BA>MS>Mastery>haste/crit (last 2 depends, rly, not gonna argue about this, either works, all depends of 2 many things)

if u want turtle mode go BA/Mastery>MS>crit>haste

but who fckn cares about it in TW, if u wanna go russian tank mode- go prot paladin ^^ tested it last 2 days and survival is sick (even with aoe seal not healing one, can just keep moving most of the time, and only stop for bosses with XX adds on u, chaining cds so healer wont piss his pants or when lovely adds in SH stun u for 5 secs or do other rtrded stuff) but dmg done is still 2 or 3 x lower than Blood DK

My pala is far from bis, but pulled all trash from Ogre boss to last boss in Shattered halls (with all them rogues) heroism and we wrecked it, but my dmg done was still silly low compared to DK.

PS: I feel like only DK forum got such nice TIMEWALK THREAD, sadly

[Ruunicus]

You are comparing 10 strength to 20 mastery. Moreover 10 strength is not 10 AP - you're neglecting Rune of the Fallen Crusader and Kings (4-5% depending on whether you have someone in your group with the buff).

The stat priority is Strength > BA > MS > others.

I'm comparing 10 Strength to 20 Mastery because that's what we get in gem form. I would see it as a general rule as all our gear would have strength on it already BUT the gem slots would be reconsidered to Mastery. In theory (IMO), Blood DKs would look for socketed gear with Mastery and Bonus Armour on it and then gem Mastery and Strength/Mastery depending on the socket bonus. Multistrike is one of those things you simply get as much of it as you can but are simply extremely limited when gunning for sockets, etc.

Even with RotFC and Kings, Mastery still edges out Strength due to the conversion rate. A 10 Strength gem with RotFC and Kings is 12.5 Strength and thus 12.5 AP. It's still less than a 20 Mastery gem which is 15.56 AP.

Note that this is BC TW though. I do expect strength to win in WotLK.

Note that I'm sticking with Strength currently because I do not know the WotLK conversion BUT I wanted to confirm Evilfury's numbers. He's completely right when it comes to BC TW. Mastery beats Strength.

[Saiyendra]

Well, yes, but when you speak of a stat priority you generally consider each stat on a per point basis. Point-for-point, Strength absolutely does beat mastery. I did not comment on gems at all.

Comparisons between Strength and other stats does arise on trinkets.

[Ruunicus]

Well, yes, but when you speak of a stat priority you generally consider each stat on a per point basis. Point-for-point, Strength absolutely does beat mastery. I did not comment on gems at all.

Comparisons between Strength and other stats does arise on trinkets.

I understand what you're saying. I guess we actually can't compare stats 1 = 1 though due to how they are regulated. Primary versus secondary, etc.

One thing I failed to do was add up the Attack Power properly. Mastery converts to Attack Power by a % so Strength will be better than Mastery for awhile. The more Mastery you have, the higher % your Attack Power is increased by (i.e. 25% increase to 30% increase).

The Mastery conversion rate to Attack Power I used is specific to my gear. The Mastery conversion rate to the 1% is correct though. It looks like your Attack Power is increased by approx. 50% of your TOTAL Mastery %.

It's not a linear 1 for 1 conversion. Mastery and Strength both do not have Diminishing Returns BUT Mastery's Attack Power multiplier increases as you get more Mastery whereas RotFC and Kings keep the same multipliers.

All in all, it's a VERY minimal difference. You really have to just weigh the boost to Blood Shield.

[Deleted]

This is why in WOD Str is better, because 2ndary stats scale down by a lot, BUT U CANT GEM STR IN WOD, we have 75 secondary stat gems, even if u could gem 75 str vs 150 mastery, mastery would wreck it.

Very easy to learn how to understand that by wowhead, next to each item there is this slide showing stat %/stat number for level 1-100 (called combat ratings)

So when u have 10 str gem vs 20 mastery, mastery always wins.

Askmrrobot for WoD Blood DK says str= 0,55 mastery=0,4 and now compare 20 mastery to 10 str
(lets just say we trust it 100%, even if str was 1 and mastery was 0,5 then mastery STILL wins cause of shield)

Same as armor beats bonus armor by fckn LOTS (in terms of DMG, not even saying about armor %) u can easily observe it, just equip WOD crafted trinket, and WoD crafted chest legs OR helmet (most stats from whole gear) and prepare for brainfck..

- - - Updated - - -

Note that this is BC TW though. I do expect strength to win in WotLK.

From my experience i would say, u might be dissapointed xD

20 mastery > 10 str for level 70, and ALSO for 90, and 91 level, 80 is between them tho (afaik 80 lev TW is easier, cause we have more stats, can be wrong, dont remember, since they fcked up 80 and 85 level twinks)

Cant wait for next event (TW tbc dungs sck :/ wotlk ones were so much easier, even that i didnt have such gear as i do now + FL 2set)

Well, at least u actually care to calculate this stuff instead of saying X is better than Y, cause some guide/person said it is better... and this is why i respect You! (u spent ur time to find out, instead of blindly following some pattern, like most of people do)

[Darklurker]

I wonder how exactly mastery compares to strength for DW Frost.

[Deleted]

I wonder how exactly mastery compares to strength for DW Frost.

You would actually have to test it out, I am Blood DK (soulbound) rarely dpsing as DK, and it is my main since wotlk :P

but IMO 20mastery>10str for u too, im 99% sure about this (especially with ur T16 bonus)

DW Frost- Askmrobot says str=1 , mastery=0,7
20 mastery vs 10 str (for level 100, 80,70... whatever)

enough said (??)