View Poll Results: Would you like Discipline to have more shadow thematics?

Voters
62. This poll is closed
  • Yes, it will make it feel unique

    28 45.16%
  • No, its holy Mk II and thats how it should always be

    28 45.16%
  • I dont really care, but i wanna vote anyway!

    6 9.68%
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  1. #1

    Disc having more shadow

    So we know that Disc going forward will be a damage healer hybrid, filling the role of healer by using dps abilities, thematically i would love to see discipline gain some more shadow moves/influence to distance itself from holy (both priests and paladins).

    Thematically, i think it makes sense, as discipline is for the most part a holy priest who has the 'discipline' to harness shadow energy and not fully succumb to its influence. Its the spec who can wield both disciplines, focusing on the duality of light AND the shadow it casts, working on the synergy between light and shadow

    Gameplay wise it fits even more now that we know that its also a damage dealer, manifesting the duality into gameplay.

    I think that this will do wonders in making shadow really feel like it belongs to priests, rather than feeling like an awkward addition that fits more with warlocks.

    As for spec identity currently, discipline shares far too much thematic space with holy priests, and even holy paladins, currently all 3 are strictly holy users, which alienates shadow as it feels like a class within a class, sharing absolutely no thematics or abilities with either of its sibling specs.

    Holy > pure light magic, abolishes shadow, pure healer, antithesis of shadow
    Discipline > Hybrid Light and its Shadow, embraces both sides, hybrid damage and heals, combination of both holy/shadow
    Shadow > Pure shadow magic, forsaken light, pure DPS, antithesis of holy

    I think that discipline in this incarnation would thematically fit with many other horde races that never really had a holy focus such as forsaken, who have trouble with holy magic and would feel more comfortable healing this way or trolls, who tend to screw around with weird voodoo shit, being as likely to heal you as curse your enemies.

    So what do you think? does this sound appealing?
    Last edited by bloodmoth13; 2015-08-18 at 01:55 AM.

  2. #2
    I'd love to see it be a viable spec, but I honestly don't believe they can make it work. Disc will be a sub par healer and a sub par dps. There is a niche for such a spec in game, but I can't see how the contribution of such a spec would go noticed and therefore often be under appreciated and rewarded. I'd imagine the heals will work much like atonement currently does, but probably a bit stronger. This mechanic will most likely have a heavy RNG factor attached to it and make sub par heals even more so.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Luxeley View Post
    I'd love to see it be a viable spec, but I honestly don't believe they can make it work. Disc will be a sub par healer and a sub par dps. There is a niche for such a spec in game, but I can't see how the contribution of such a spec would go noticed and therefore often be under appreciated and rewarded. I'd imagine the heals will work much like atonement currently does, but probably a bit stronger. This mechanic will most likely have a heavy RNG factor attached to it and make sub par heals even more so.
    They announced that attonement will be core to discipline in legion, what you do is heal, then dps and you auto heal your last target, or something of the like.
    The spec will be balanced as a healer, so it will heal as well as other specs for the most part, being completely viable in dungeons and having some niche in raids, but perhaps having lower utility than other healers.

    The playstyle has already been decided, im not asking them to change it from what it is, they have already decided on dps/heal hybrid, further developing the attonement playstyle as a core part of it. this is what they have decided already, I am simply asking about what thematic spells will be used, seeing a spot for some shadow spells added into the offensive part and perhaps even shadow themed heals/mitigation.

    This is really a matter of identity, thematics and their representation in gameplay, not so much the actual gameplay, I am however projecting my ideas for the former onto the latter.

    I would like to see more dps options for other healer specs, accessible through talents, like a talent for restocatting or shockadin playstyles that switch between full healer and pseudo dps at about 75%, doing perhaps 30% healing then switching back to 100% healing at any time for big bursts of damage.
    You would balance this against sweet healing cooldowns, so that pure healers would do most of the healing (maybe 4 or so dedicated healers and 2-3 hybrid healers)

    This would allow raid composition to dynamically change dps vs heals mid fight rather than dedicating x slots to dps and x slots to heals, rather than having redundant healers while damage is low/shortage while damage is high.

    I think that there is a very strategic niche for them personally and would love to see it implemented.

    As for where that leaves disc? i see them as having the DPS option built in, perhaps a talent that pushes it further that competes with better cooldowns, but if disc really isnt needed then they can always switch to holy.

  4. #4
    I'm waiting to make a judgment until we have more info. For all we know it could be a great spec, but we just don't know yet.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by djriff View Post
    I'm waiting to make a judgment until we have more info. For all we know it could be a great spec, but we just don't know yet.
    All the information we have at the moment is that it will have a heavy attonement tie in. Im not asking for any of the fundamentals to change, or making assumptions that it will be unsatisfactory, but rather asking that discipline have more shadow abilities that tie into it, differentiating it further from holy paladins and priests, carving out its own unique unexplored niche, playing as a sort of yin yang archetype.

    The gameplay that i asked for is already what they have chosen, im not asking them to do something they arent already doing, all im asking is for discipline to use shadow and light magic, thematically using shadow for offense and holy for defense with a little variance on it (a shadow ability used to heal/mitigate, a holy for offense) and more lore support to explain how raw void style shadow energy ties into light energy, with heavy influence from the naaru etc.
    This will draw stark differences between shadow priests and warlocks, who currently have some unfortunate overlap, and would also make shadow priests feel not only welcome in the priest class halls, but instrumental. they are already major outcasts, and from an objective perspective, simply do not belong as a spec on the holy dominated class.

    This is all in an effort to really clarify what the priest class is as a whole, and why priests use shadow magic and understanding its necessity for even holy priests.

  6. #6
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    As a priest, I really like this idea, thematically? A balance between the two, understanding that, like GoT's Melisandre says, "Shadows are the servants of light, the children of fire. The brightest flame casts the darkest shadows." My understanding of the Light (not what all priests work with, I know) has been that as long as you believe in yourself and your motives, it'll respond to you...even if maybe the things you're doing are not so good things. Additionally, it seems to be a very self-sufficient sort of 'religion'. One of the main aspects involves helping others, but also knowing when to step back and let them do for themselves (because doing too much for people can cripple their own potential, as well as make them perhaps feel embarrassed, or resentful).

    Disc has always come across as the most personally aware, practical, open-minded of the three specs to me—I could see most gnome/goblin priests being Disc; a sort of 'the right tool for the right situation' vibe more than only using holy (holy) or unholy (shadow).

    Of course that's just my two cents. I like the idea though! And on another note, I'm certainly not planning to change specs come Legion. Disc might end up sub-par (for a while, they can always retune) or might stay really fun, who knows! Heck, it might even end up like a healing Balance druid (I don't think so, but y'know, random theories!) with a sort of pendulum feel; a time to focus healing and a time to focus DPS. We've got so little info yet, it makes me really keen for Blizzcon.

  7. #7
    I don't think they are going to be half of a normal dps, and half of a normal healer. I think they are still going to be 100% healer, they will just do half their healing through atonement damage and half through healing. Otherwise they would be broken in PvP. So to your poll option, no I like the Holy aspects.

  8. #8
    Glad you like the idea. I dont think that its even entirely original, to me it really feels like a way to move the spec forward and give it its own personal thematic niche, i almost feel as though it has already been hinted at with alot of recent shadow/light lore focusing on the duality of light and its shadow and the necessity of one to the other. Its a logical step forward and would go a long way in making priests feel like a holistic class as a whole.

    The focus on spec identity, not just class but the specializations specifically really gives me hope that they will focus on something like this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    I don't think they are going to be half of a normal dps, and half of a normal healer. I think they are still going to be 100% healer, they will just do half their healing through atonement damage and half through healing. Otherwise they would be broken in PvP.
    I agree with this, they will play the role of a healer, but also deal damage on the side, still being balanced against healers though. i do think that they should probably make some trade offs so that they have strong dps, not competetive but not insignificant.

    Although i would like to see them have the option to trade healing for more damage so that they can sort of swap roles mid fight when healers arent so needed, depending on how the fight progresses, with this same function added to other classes and having a few raid spots allocated to hybrid heal/dps.

    At any rate im intensly interested in how they deal with this

  9. #9
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Always thought it was a shame when Holy/Disc lost Mind Blast...maybe could get it back?

  10. #10
    What is it with MMO-C and making retardedly biased and opinionated poll responses?

    Do you like apples?
    Yes because I'm a civilized human being.
    No I don't like apples because I'm an idiot with no taste.

    If it's a yes or no question that requires no further clarification outside the OP and question, make it a fucking yes or no poll response.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    What is it with MMO-C and making retardedly biased and opinionated poll responses?

    Do you like apples?
    Yes because I'm a civilized human being.
    No I don't like apples because I'm an idiot with no taste.

    If it's a yes or no question that requires no further clarification outside the OP and question, make it a fucking yes or no poll response.
    What? That would defeat the entire purpose of advancing one's misguided and prejudiced narrative by inserting vitriol and thinly veiled insults to sway poll results.

    Why would anyone in the wrong mind do that?
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

    Prediction for the future

  12. #12
    With these changes, there will hopefully be a shift towards making Holy a more viable spec to play. I love Holy and I love Shadow and I'm tired of being expected to play Discipline purely because they offer something no other healer can, it's unfair. So, yeah I'm looking forward to what 7.0 has in store for us.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    What is it with MMO-C and making retardedly biased and opinionated poll responses?

    Do you like apples?
    Yes because I'm a civilized human being.
    No I don't like apples because I'm an idiot with no taste.

    If it's a yes or no question that requires no further clarification outside the OP and question, make it a fucking yes or no poll response.
    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    What? That would defeat the entire purpose of advancing one's misguided and prejudiced narrative by inserting vitriol and thinly veiled insults to sway poll results.

    Why would anyone in the wrong mind do that?
    Okay okay it was a joke, and i am bias so sue me, but if you think that it should remain purely with holy spells then state your reason, your acting just as bad attacking without stating your opinion, id like to hear your opinion still

    Is there any way to actually change the poll questions? id change if i could to avoid this backlash, again just a small joke, disregard it if you will.

    In saying that, I personally do feel that having 3 holy healing specs in the game is far more than enough, 2 even share a name and they all have the same thematics, being using holy spells. druids and shamans both have restoration specs, but one uses nature, the other elements, so there is thematic distinction wheras holy paladins use holy in armor, priests use holy out of armor, and discipline use holy out of armor with more focus on shields, its hardly distinct at that point!

    if discipline used shadow to mitigate damage, it would atleast draw distinction between the other 2 holy specs. just my opinion anyway, if you disagree, please argue, id like to hear whatever reasoning you have

  14. #14
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodmoth13 View Post
    -snip-
    if discipline used shadow to mitigate damage
    But this starting to feel like a Shadow Priest/Warlock now. Why can't we just use Holy (or hell, spells "without a class" in a sense) to do the same?

    In my mind, Discipline is a spec which strengthens the will of our allies, and our self, to keep on fighting. It's not so much Holy in the sense that we heal the wounds that we already have, rather we keep the morale up to keep fighting even with the wounds or in the face of sure defeat.

    Sure, this is not even close to the vision Blizzard seems to have for Disc, but it sure as fug is a version of disc I would like to see.
    Why can't we have a support spec that boosts the other players in the raid/group with our spells being mostly focused around mitigation, active buffs to players and then a subfocus on damage dealing? Blizzard pls

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Grxl View Post
    But this starting to feel like a Shadow Priest/Warlock now. Why can't we just use Holy (or hell, spells "without a class" in a sense) to do the same?

    In my mind, Discipline is a spec which strengthens the will of our allies, and our self, to keep on fighting. It's not so much Holy in the sense that we heal the wounds that we already have, rather we keep the morale up to keep fighting even with the wounds or in the face of sure defeat.

    Sure, this is not even close to the vision Blizzard seems to have for Disc, but it sure as fug is a version of disc I would like to see.
    Why can't we have a support spec that boosts the other players in the raid/group with our spells being mostly focused around mitigation, active buffs to players and then a subfocus on damage dealing? Blizzard pls
    It reminds me of the priest from warcraft 3 that had heal and a spamable inner fire, while in theory its a unique role, in gameplay buffs feel really REALLY underwhelming, think of vanilla when blessings and such needed reapplication every 10 minutes.

    As for its original intention, i think it was supposed to be a melee monk spec, but they later decided that it was a bad idea and placed it in thematic limbo, repurposing it as a traditional healer.

    At any rate, im not trying to turn it into a blood spec or anything out of what it currently is, which is an offensive healer gameplay wise, they have access to shadow and holy already, they just dont have any interesting interaction.

    As for strengthening will, it could thematically revolve around expelling the shadows/negative-emotions(think sha)/pain from within allies and projecting them onto enemies, which would work with the psychic theme of some spells (pain suppression, mind blast/sear/spike/flay) casting light on allies and redirecting the shadows onto enemies. Think of it as negative energy transferal. I think understanding and defining what shadow and light represent will allow a non-evil take on shadow magic that could have a place in a healers toolkit. rather than turning your back on shadow and radiating light, the discipline priest understands shadow and unravels it in a more natural way, bringing out the light from within rather than forcing it in (getting philosophical here! this is sort of my understanding of it though)

    In saying that, i would love to see inner fire brought back as the marker for our atonement healing, it has always been an iconic spell since warcraft 3.

  16. #16
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodmoth13 View Post
    It reminds me of the priest from warcraft 3 that had heal and a spamable inner fire, while in theory its a unique role, in gameplay buffs feel really REALLY underwhelming, think of vanilla when blessings and such needed reapplication every 10 minutes.
    Well, I was thinking something closer to the Seals we had back then, which lasted like 15 seconds? But yeah, I guess it wouldn't exactly fit in the current gameplay and would probably feel a bit underwhelming to play to most.


    At any rate, im not trying to turn it into a blood spec or anything out of what it currently is, which is an offensive healer gameplay wise, they have access to shadow and holy already, they just dont have any interesting interaction.
    Tbh, I almost feel like this is just a oversight by blizzard in 'ye olden times' that ability pruning somehow missed. A Discipline priest would probably know how to inflict pain to their opponents minds, but I have to ask: would they actually use shadow magic to do it? Sure from a gameplay perspective it works either way, with SWP or some holy modification of it (Holy Fire?) and I can't actually recall if the priests in the WoW universe were taught both holy and shadow predominately (and yes, I know that basically every race has a different ideology/religion around it), but it feels silly.

    As for strengthening will, it could thematically revolve around expelling the shadows/negative-emotions(think sha)/pain from within allies and projecting them onto enemies, which would work with the psychic theme of some spells (pain suppression, mind blast/sear/spike/flay) casting light on allies and redirecting the shadows onto enemies. Think of it as negative energy transferal. I think understanding and defining what shadow and light represent will allow a non-evil take on shadow magic that could have a place in a healers toolkit. rather than turning your back on shadow and radiating light, the discipline priest understands shadow and unravels it in a more natural way, bringing out the light from within rather than forcing it in (getting philosophical here! this is sort of my understanding of it though)

    In saying that, i would love to see inner fire brought back as the marker for our atonement healing, it has always been an iconic spell since warcraft 3.
    I guess that's another idea. A priest that uses both sides to do both things.

  17. #17
    We can speculate all day long but we need more information before we can conclude what Disc will become. All we have now is "50% healing/50% damage".

    I would like to see Disc become a combo of Shadow and Holy, sort of like a boomkin shifting between Sun and Moon.
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  18. #18
    No. Absolutely not. What I've seen described as the idea for Disc using both light and shadow is the equivalent of Disc cannibalizing the other two specs thematics/identity. Blizzard has said themselves that shadow has to be careful not to delve to deep into the shadow and they are the balance to the light used by others.

  19. #19
    If they do that, they better damn well give Shadow even MORE Shadow, plus some Disc/Holy back. I hate what WoD did to Shadow.

  20. #20
    Yeah I've always liked the idea of disc being a balance between dark and light, with shadow abilities being intergrated into atonement a bit more. I think there's a lot of potential for some really interesting gameplay and flavour styles that they could take. I think an atonement style that fluctuates between shadow and holy similar to how moonkin works and uses both light and dark archangel could be a really interesting and potentially fun style but in reality it would be extremely difficult to make it practical for healing. At any rate I really hope they try to be even a little creative with disc in legion, though I think it would be almost impossible to make less creative than it is now. I also hope the fiddle with smart healing a bit, where it is now its too underwhelming and where it was in mop was too overwhelming for most (I liked it but I know a lot didn't). At the very least I hope to see atonement have some buffs and mechanics to maintain (like fistweaving does).
    Disc Priests: Just 2 mana trinkets away from becoming Withered

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