Leave Jaina Proudmoore ALONE!

[Jessicka]

Making her a villain is lazy story telling IMO. They can think of something better. I would be disappointed if they made her into another Arthas

We saw with Garrosh that they actually can't think of anything better.

[Dvaldin]

Late on making this thread but its been revealed that Jaina will be stepping down oddly as leader of the kirin tor. Alex when he said this gave a bright sinister smirk and we can see where this going! DON'T. YOU. DARE, make Jaina Proudmoore a villain. Jaina Proudmoore may have had her moments in MoP BUT you have to realize, she was pushed to havoc and pure hatred of the Horde due to the mass genocide of her people and the Alliance within Kalimdor. Jaina sympathically deliberately watched her people get turned to violet dust and ashes in pain as the focusing iris destroyed her city. Not only that but she was betrayed from within by her own people! She watched her surrogate nephew's whole skeleton get crushed. I don't blame her, I would've snapped too and want to get vengeance on the Horde. She is almost literally the only Alliance character with a spine. She will do whatever it takes to ensure safety for the Alliance.

The Horde are known to be assholes and dishonorable. There is no reason for Jaina to say "shes crazy and now will go slaughtering her own people within the Alliance". Don't make her a villain. She doesn't need a redemption story because she isn't "bad". Leave her where she is. This is the EXACT same thing you did with Garrosh during Cataclysm. He was perfect in Wrath until assholes complained because reasons. A leader having a spine against the ENEMY doesn't make them an asshole or a villain.

Its time to make villains from scratch. If you keep "corrupting" heroes then we will have none left. It is also cheap and bland writing. Making new villains adds creativity to the story and artistic diversity. Some villains don't need to be corrupted from being a hero. Some people just want to see the world burn. Some villains don't want a "I win button so gtfo heroes" artifact/superweapon. Some villains don't need superpowers to be "epic". Be creative with your villains and stop this cliche corruption of heroes technique in your writing.

Kerrigan, Sylvanus, Cordana

There can be no lasting woman heroine at Blizzard. Cliche.

[jishdefish]

I don't want her to go evil either. Even since Garrosh she's been rational in Warcraft terms (aside from almost destroying Orgrimmar, which we ended up sacking at the end of the expansion anyway). Notice, she didn't go full out 'take no prisoners' in Dalaran. Jail was an option if they came peaceably. Guilt by association, while not the American way, is very common in the pseudo-medieval time period that is Warcraft. In a way, the loss of Theramore made her more decisive. She should stay that way, even if she loses control of Dalaran. She could always go see if her brother has anything for her to do in Kul Tiras, or, you know, helping to stop the Burning Legion.

I have a sneaking feeling she's going to be a boss in Violet Hold though. I suppose she could pull a Lillian Voss still, even if that's the case. Nearly kill her, she regains her sanity. It would be terrible writing that way too, but at least she'll be alive.

[Traveler Voltin]

The more people that try to protect her, the more i want her dead

[Aeula]

I don't want her to go evil either. Even since Garrosh she's been rational in Warcraft terms (aside from almost destroying Orgrimmar, which we ended up sacking at the end of the expansion anyway). Notice, she didn't go full out 'take no prisoners' in Dalaran. Jail was an option if they came peaceably. Guilt by association, while not the American way, is very common in the pseudo-medieval time period that is Warcraft. In a way, the loss of Theramore made her more decisive. She should stay that way, even if she loses control of Dalaran. She could always go see if her brother has anything for her to do in Kul Tiras, or, you know, helping to stop the Burning Legion.

I have a sneaking feeling she's going to be a boss in Violet Hold though. I suppose she could pull a Lillian Voss still, even if that's the case. Nearly kill her, she regains her sanity. It would be terrible writing that way too, but at least she'll be alive.

She's too far gone to regain her sanity, death is the only option. I wouldn't be surprised if she's ran off to join the legion, she hates the horde more than them these days. And 'rational'? Since Garrosh she's done nothing other than attending a trial, died and told the non-Kirin Tor alliance and horde to get the fuck off khadgar's lawn.
And she did go full on take no prisoners, she let Vereesa and her private thugs go crazy on whoever she wanted while walking around Dalaran randomly killing or teleporting whoever she came across that didn't fit her warped idea of the Kirin Tor, if the silver covenant are in charge of their imprisonment then they'll be tortured for sure.

She's a terrible leader, a hypocrite (Invading the barrens back in cata while preaching peace) and flat out insane. She. Must. Die.

[Zulkhan]

They hold meaning for your accusation, of taking "sadistic pleasure in killing".

Again, no, they don't, no matter how try to grasp on this. The lack of these revealed "reasons" gives you a position to argue in the first place, or at least that's what you think, since in fact, is irrelevant.

Torture is applied out of sadism and cruelty. The end. These are elements implying there's pleasure in inflict suffering. Unless, as I say for another time hoping it would reach your mind, isn't done with a second guess, and the only second guess imaginable is an interrogation.

If you cannot understand this, I guess the problem here is semantic and I fear the full meaning of certain words escape you a bit.

but it's not supported by the events we saw there.

It's supported by the very event you witness. Your sole rebuttal is "but we don't know the deep reasons for which he does that" which is little more than your wishful thinking. The event itself is self-explanatory.

[Gamevizier]

Lol @ people who think sunreavers are "civilians". Well news flash : the sunreavers were sent by Lorthemar as a faction representing the horde interests in Dalaran. They were never there from the begining, they were "allowed" into Dalaran by Rhonin, who was the leader of Kirin Tor then. Aethas Sunreaver REFUSED Jaina's order to leave Dalaran and therefore, as head of Sunreavers, damned his followers to be forcebly removed and imprisoned. Jaina, as leader of Dalaran, has the final say of who is allowed to stay inside and who is not, Period. Its not a fuckin democracy, you do not have rights, you are there because the head of the kirin tor allows it.

Sunreavers =/= Dalaran citizens. And if there was any problems with it the kirin tor council would've objected. They did not, so suck it up.

Stop trying to paint every anti-horde character as villain.

[Zulkhan]

He said "jaina wanted to kill all of the horde, including thrall."

Certainly she wanted to kill Thrall at some point (Tides of War) and if he would have opposed the Alliance in the attempted "dismantling", she would have surely killed him as the enemy he just became because of circumstances.

It could have required a lot of fighting, it could have required none.

Are you serious? How you think you were going to dismantle the faction without a lot of fighting? The Alliance had to conquer all Horde lands one by one. Hell if that required a lot of fighting.

It's not only Wrathion, Varian too mentions that bringing down Azshara, the Echo Isles and Thunder Bluff would have been costly, achievable but costly. Believe the Horde could have been dismantled with "no fighting" is absolutely ridiculous.

[Packing an i5]

I don't care but don't kill sylvanas blizzard!

[Every Pwny]

Again, no, they don't, no matter how try to grasp on this. The lack of these revealed "reasons" gives you a position to argue in the first place, or at least that's what you think, since in fact, is irrelevant.

Torture is applied out of sadism and cruelty. The end. These are elements implying there's pleasure in inflict suffering. Unless, as I say for another time hoping it would reach your mind, isn't done with a second guess, and the only second guess imaginable is an interrogation.

If you cannot understand this, I guess the problem here is semantic and I fear the full meaning of certain words escape you a bit.

He would take "sadistic pleasure" in torturing, not killing. You don't know if he would have enjoyed killing at all, and he didn't indicate he enjoyed when he dropped the sunreaver agent after the horde player hits him to stop the channeling. You don't know if he was deriving pleasure from what he was doing, because nothing indicates that. What he was doing was cruel, it doesn't mean he was deriving pleasure from it, you don't know if it was "a lot", you mistakenly use the plural, and you don't know that he got "sadistic pleasure" from killing as opposed to the act of holding the sunreaver agent over the shark, because nothing indicates that.

Certainly she wanted to kill Thrall at some point (Tides of War) and if he would have opposed the Alliance in the attempted "dismantling", she would have surely killed him as the enemy he just became because of circumstances..

In ToW she didn't want to kill him after she was talked down by Kalecgos. She didn't want to "kill all the horde", she wanted to dismantle it as a political organization. In ToW she still blamed him for putting Garrosh in charge of the horde as well, and how he dismissed her when she came to talk to him about Garrosh's warmongering.

Are you serious? How you think you were going to dismantle the faction without a lot of fighting? The Alliance had to conquer all Horde lands one by one. Hell if that required a lot of fighting.

It's not only Wrathion, Varian too mentions that bringing down Azshara, the Echo Isles and Thunder Bluff would have been costly, achievable but costly. Believe the Horde could have been dismantled with "no fighting" is absolutely ridiculous.

It didn't play out, so you can't say for sure. Wrathion also thought dismantling the horde was the correct decision and was very angry it didn't happen to unite Azeroth. You can't say Jaina wanted to "kill all the horde", because that is never stated, only that she wanted to dismantle. Kosak further clarified her wishes from people like the person I was correcting, as wanting to dismantle the horde. It could be a range from total war to no war, it's not clear what exactly would happen, but it's clear Jaina never expressed a desire there to "kill all the horde".

[Sasha Nekosune]

I take offense to the op saying that the horde are mostly assholes when most of the leaders are actually nice people... Sylvanas Is misunderstood... She just wants whats best for her people, and will probably give her life for her people... Vol'jin is a Troll with honor... He Refused one of his Tribe's loa who wanted him to kill hundreds in his name. I mean that still kinda happened but thats besides the point... Vol'jin has integrity....

I'm not really gonna mention thrall... He's kinda.... eeeeeeh... If it wasn't for Thrall Garrosh might have become a good person... Rather have what happened with him happen... What SHOULD have happened is that Garrosh should have been put under the tutelage of Vol'jin and Vol'jin or Cairne made Warchief... but we got stuck with Garrosh who wasn't ready to be warchief... Power can change people... especially those who aren't ready or prepared for the power... And Garrosh... If he hadn't been Warchief in Cata or MoP then he MIGHT have been ready in WoD... But alas... what we have is what we have... If it wasn't for Thrall...Theramore would still be as it once was... What Garrosh needed was to be GROOMED to be a Leader... To make the right decisions...

[Dispersed]

I take offense to the op saying that the horde are mostly assholes when most of the leaders are actually nice people... Sylvanas Is misunderstood... She just wants whats best for her people, and will probably give her life for her people... Vol'jin is a Troll with honor... He Refused one of his Tribe's loa who wanted him to kill hundreds in his name. I mean that still kinda happened but thats besides the point... Vol'jin has integrity....

I'm not really gonna mention thrall... He's kinda.... eeeeeeh... If it wasn't for Thrall Garrosh might have become a good person... Rather have what happened with him happen... What SHOULD have happened is that Garrosh should have been put under the tutelage of Vol'jin and Vol'jin or Cairne made Warchief... but we got stuck with Garrosh who wasn't ready to be warchief... Power can change people... especially those who aren't ready or prepared for the power... And Garrosh... If he hadn't been Warchief in Cata or MoP then he MIGHT have been ready in WoD... But alas... what we have is what we have... If it wasn't for Thrall...Theramore would still be as it once was... What Garrosh needed was to be GROOMED to be a Leader... To make the right decisions...

You are absolutely right in the leaders are great people. Most of them actually made steps to mend the damage with Jaina caused by Garrosh so none of them really should be made a villian, Jaina included. Thrall really is to blame for Garrosh too. Garrosh showed aggression against the Alliance in Northrend and it only worsened. Based on Garrosh's blind hate he should've never been made Warchief. Leading up to Theramore's destruction, Jaina sought out Thrall to deal with Garrosh's aggression against Theramore and Ashenvale, Thrall declined to help because he decided mending the damage of the Cataclysm after Deathwing's death was more important.

Every time I see the Garrosh vs Thrall cinematic and Garrosh says Thrall made him this way and Thrall says no he didn't I wish more and more that something bad happens to Thrall.