Patrons aren't the problem, Frothing/Warsong are.

[Shinzai]

You clearly don't know anything about patron decks.

By pressure you mean exclusively only cards that have three or more attack? Yeah that realistic and balanced?

Board sweeps? What are you talking about? Patron is one round play if you get a chance to clear the board then they messed up.

Good cards that is about as meaningless of a term as you can put out there? Sludge Belcher is a great card against every type of deck well except Patron decks.

They pull all of their good cards, that is what happens because the problem with Patron decks is the card draw they have insane card draw and draw through their decks way faster then any other deck in the game.

I've only been OTK'ed by a Patron Warrior a few times out of the hundreds I've played against. Just look at your end line: "They pull all of their good cards". No. They don't. They often have shit in their hand and if you can force them to start using cards against your opening 5 turns worth of minions/weapons/whatever, you can draw them into a losing game. If they're drawing insanely and have multiple Acolytes out or some other such, hit the acolytes to force them to overdraw. Overdrawing even one card can destroy a Patron deck easily, as you should have noticed, their entire deck revolves around milling cards to get what they need. Loatheb, forced overdraw, early aggression, taunt minions and more can draw them into a prolonged battle or cause them to straight up lose.

I've beaten many, many, of them with Mid-Range Paladin, Control Paladin, Face Paladin, Face Hunter, Mid-Range Demon Warlock and a few other decks. They're not imba, they're not invincible. OTK decks have existed forever and are nothing new.

[Raiju]

Yes WC is a problem but it likely wouldn't see any use outside this combo. Maybe they could change it to "give charge to first/first two/etc minions played".

Even more reason to change it. If a card is only good when it makes unstoppable combos it simply shouldn't exist. Blizzard has the opportunity to fix that due to hearthstones online format.

[glycerethe]

Da blade be thirsty hehehe

[kail]

I also blame Battle Rage. A 2 mana sprint is simply rediculous.

[Deleted]

As stated by the thread title. I see Patron Warrior getting a lot of hate. It's well deserved, no doubt

I disagree. I played against Patron Warriors and won more than I lost against them. I tried it myself and I met so many deck with hate cards: weapon removals, taunts by taunts, many silences in the aggro decks that deny drawings from Acolytes and or Armor gain from the smiths. I faced many board 3 dmg AoEs and complete board clears. The rebirth of freeze mages locks down your attacks and trade options, you cant set up a board. Ice lance, frost bolt, snow chugger shut down your weapon use.
And on top of that I was so many times screwed by having the Combo pieces in the last 8-12 cards.


Maybe in the the top and legend ranks the Patron Warriors are annoying, but rank 5-15 is teching so hard against them. And against facerush decks so the taunt walls teched against aggro mean "collateral damage" against Patron Warriors as well.
Besides that I lost against many many more Aggro and Facerushdecks of Rogue, Paladin (Firebat climbed form 25 to 5 with a f2p Paladindeck with his Eboladin-Variant) , Hunter and Mage.
edit: I only met 3 mill decks in the days I tried Patron Warrior, but it was obvious that this matchup is an auto loss for Patron Warri.

TLDR: Lots of taunts, freezes, silences and weapon removals plus the RNG of needing all your combo pieces rips Patron Warriors assunder in the middle ladder ranks.

[Deleted]

Why does no one moan about the Force of Nature + Savage roar combo? Its pretty silly.

[Raiju]

Why does no one moan about the Force of Nature + Savage roar combo? Its pretty silly.

Probably because as easy as it is to pull off it's 14 damage that doesn't get stronger if you have certain things on the board

[Rennadrel]

This has always been my point. I don't know why this is allowed. They got rid of the charge because of the OTK Molten Giant deck back in the day. Warsong needs to only give charge to minions that have less than 3 attack on the board, never above.

Well, they technically do have less than 3 attack when they are summoned. It isn't really an issue of their attack at the time of summoning, but the combo that follows it.

[Wyattbw09]

Why does no one moan about the Force of Nature + Savage roar combo? Its pretty silly.

People do, but it is not nearly as consistent as the Patron combo because of the card draw that Patron has. The Patron is a problem because you can draw your deck and find the combo ultra fast compared to other OTK combos.

Card draw is the problem with Patron decks not other factors.

[Fenixdown]

People do, but it is not nearly as consistent as the Patron combo because of the card draw that Patron has. The Patron is a problem because you can draw your deck and find the combo ultra fast compared to other OTK combos.

Card draw is the problem with Patron decks not other factors.

Exactly this. Their draw engine costs no more than 3 mana at any point in time, and depending on what they can pull off Battle Rage can be a Sprint on steroids.

However, all of that being said, everyone is wrong on the single minion in the deck that is to blame for Patron being as good as it is. It's not Warsong or Frothing or Patron. It's Emperor.

Thaurrisan makes this deck run flawlessly, no matter how you're playing it (in other words, running Commanding Shout or not). The standard Patron combo costs 10 mana if you're running shout. 9 mana if you're having to play Whirlwind, and just 8 mana if you're set up with a DB on board to go off. Notice that in none of these scenarios, you can play Frothing Berserker.

Enter Thaurrisan. Making all of those cards cost 1 less takes the deck from "fair" to "legend ranking". A 10 mana combo just cost you 7. A 9 mana combo just cost you 6. An 8 mana combo just cost you 6. All of those scenarios leave room for Frothing to be dropped so that it can deal massive amounts of damage.

Thaurrisan allows the deck to set up for OTK. Not only that, but it can set up for OTK without setting up the board for a turn. Druid's combo still requires you to have done enough damage to get you in kill range. Patron doesn't. A cheapened hand with Patron can deal well over 20 damage in one shot. And that gives them all the range they need to finish you off with what's left.

Without that one 6 drop legendary? It's basically a bad control warrior deck. With it? The only way you can stop it is to hope you have enough damage to kill them before they can pull it off.

[Raiju]

Except without warsong this deck - and every other warrior wombo combo deck - doesn't and didn't work.

Warsong is the problem regardless of thaurissan's power. You can OTK without Thaurissan. You can do over 20 damage for 10 mana easily without it being cheapened.

[Deleted]

give warriors the hunter nerf.
Make warsong commander, their keypiece in the deck, cost 5 mana.
They did it to hunter with buzzard because the deck was becoming ridiculous, just give warriors the same kind of nerf.

[PPN]

i just faced 4 decks of patron in a row...horribly boring. 2nd turn Armorsminth, 3rd Acolyte, 4th Death Bite ..over and over the same. Then gather up some cards, throw out Thaurassian and in the end just zeroskill charge combo with patrons and frothing berserker...

I think when you play the Frothing berserker and it gets boosted to higher attack it should lose the charge effect...

[Deleted]

However, all of that being said, everyone is wrong on the single minion in the deck that is to blame for Patron being as good as it is.

By the time this thread is over every card in the deck will be the one that's the problem.

And still only those who say Warsong Commander will be right.

[Mormolyce]

I was playing Patron again the other night. Fucking hated it, such an unreliable deck.

Even more reason to change it. If a card is only good when it makes unstoppable combos it simply shouldn't exist. Blizzard has the opportunity to fix that due to hearthstones online format.

I'm not 100% on one side or the other there.

Take two examples - Patron and Tempo Mage. Tempo Mage only really works because of Flamewaker/spell combo and Patron only works because of Patron/WC combo. I'm not totally against Patron because it's nice for warriors to have more than just control as deck options and it's its own thing. On the other hand it's kind of absurd for the deck to 100% revolve around those two cards as it does. Almost every other card is just draw to ensure you get the cards and Thaurissan to get them out earlier. Tempo on the other hand is more like a deck that was not very competitive but adding Flamewaker made it so. So I'm more in favour of Flamewaker than Patron (or WC).

Where's the line though? Hard to say. Maybe this is all just acceptible variety with HS.

I also blame Battle Rage. A 2 mana sprint is simply rediculous.

It's rare that you have more than 1-2 draws from it and nobody played it before Patron though. It literally only works because Patron is that desperate for draw to ensure its wombo goes off ASAP.

Probably because as easy as it is to pull off it's 14 damage that doesn't get stronger if you have certain things on the board

If SR goes out and anything's on the Druid's board, you're dead :P

- - - Updated - - -

However, all of that being said, everyone is wrong on the single minion in the deck that is to blame for Patron being as good as it is. It's not Warsong or Frothing or Patron. It's Emperor.

Take away Emperor and the combo would just come out a turn or two later, which MIGHT break Patron but really that's only because the meta is so ridiculously fast. If the meta slows in TGT removing Emp wouldn't do much.

[Wyattbw09]

I disagree. I played against Patron Warriors and won more than I lost against them.

What always seems to run through these threads are the people going oh but Patron is not that good, I played it and beat it or I tried it and lost.

Patron has been the most dominate deck in the game since BRD was released. I believe it is the most dominate deck in the relatively short history of Hearthstone. The Tempostorm snapshot has been the most reliable tool for evaluating which decks are dominating the meta and Patron rules with a iron fist.

Arguing that Patron is not that good is like insisting the sun is purple, just pure nonsense born from ignorance or an effort to troll.

[Deleted]

Why not just make it so that warsong commander only gives charge to played minions not summoned ones like grim patron. This way you nerf grim patron inderectly while still not totally destroying warsong commander. The only deck I can think of that actually abuses it with summoned creatures is grim patron warriors, atleast to my knowledge. So you wouldn't ruin any other warsong commander-type decks. Just my 2 cents

[Solmyr13]

Just change Warsong to give charge unless the minion goes above the 3 attack and change battle rage to not be some stupid pay 2 draw 5 cards via whirlwind mechanic. Right now patron just has so much synergy that everything works with everything.

[Reyzzz]

Rather have patron than face 100% of these aggro fiesta decks.