Frostmourne can be and SHOULD be the Unholy artifact, heres why

[KevinLee487]

So by this point, its no secret that Blizzard currently has no plans to provide Frostmourne as an artifact for Death Knights.

This isn't a campaign to keep 2H Frost or for a comeback of Blood DPS as those are two completely different horses to beat, this is a logical suggestion as to why Frostmourne should be the Unholy artifact.

Blood is getting Maw of the Damned, a Two-Handed Axe

Frost is getting a pair of One-Handed swords, Icebringer & Soulreaper. These two swords are forged from the fragments of Frostmourne that lay at the base of ICC. So I guess we just left them there for last few years but took the hilt? Right...because that sounds like a good idea. Two-handed weapons are clearly out of the picture for Frost and Blood already has their artifact, which leaves Unholy. I and many others agree that Frostmourne visually and thematically fits better with Frost, but that is a moot point since factually, it works for Unholy just fine and 2H Frost will no longer be a thing in Legion due to balancing issues, so arguing Frostmourne for Frost's artifact is an absolute waist of time.

Unholy is speculated to get the Two-Hand(?) Sword named Soulrend. Though it could be a Warlock weapon as well since the scale of Soulrend looks kind of off and the image itself seems pretty low-res for a 2H weapon.

Regardless, NOW is the time to speak up as a community before its too late. We managed to keep 2H Frost for Cataclysm and we managed to keep Army of the Dead a baseline ability. If you want Frostmourne, let your voice be heard. Tell Blizzard why you want Frostmourne. I have tweeted Warcraft Devs on twitter with the tag #WewantFrostmourne. I suggest you do the same if you would like to see Frostmourne as the artifact for Unholy.

Now, why would Frostmourne not work as the Unholy artifact?

• The sword was shattered into a million pieces. You can't use a shattered sword.

Except its not shattered into a million pieces. The blade was broken in half, the hilt is still perfectly intact with the majority of the blade as well. Take a look at this image



As you can see, most of the sword is still there. Only half of the blade or so is shattered.

In addition to this Frost is going to use those very shards of broken sword to craft new ones. We also crafted Shadowmourne which is another soul-absorbing runeblade and is a sister blade to Frostmourne. We clearly have the capability to reforge Frostmourne. Metzen himself even mentioned reforging Frostmourne with the fragments at Blizzcon 2010 IIRC. If there are enough shards laying around to where we can craft two identical One-Hand swords, saying there isn't enough shards left to reforge Frostmourne into its original shape and size holds no water. It doesn't seem like reforging it back into its original form would be an issue no matter what way you look at it.

It's also worth noting that the runeblade Felo'melorn was broken (by Frostmourne no less) and Kael'thas had it reforged. In fact, Fire Mages are even getting it as their artifact.

There is also the Runeblade, Quel'Dalar which was reforged and returned to its former glory using Saronite and then purifying in the Sunwell. "Now that the Ashen Verdict, alongside the Horde and the Alliance, are ready to march upon Icecrown Citadel, interest in the sword has been renewed. When Lana'thel defiles the sword at Quel'Delar's Rest, the Silver Covenant and the Sunreavers immediately vow to return the blade to its former glory, so players are asked to reforge and cleanse the sword. The whole process takes players to distant places like the Halls of Reflection, the Sunwell and Dalaran."

The quest "Reforging the Sword" has the player combining the sword with Saronite. Caladis Brightspear at Quel'Delar's Rest wants you to obtain 5 Infused Saronite Bars and use the Forgemaster's Hammer to combine them with the [Remnants of Quel'Delar] to create the [Reforged Quel'Delar].


The quest "Tempering the Blade" has the player temper the sword inside the Forge of Souls

"At last, the pieces of Quel'Delar are rejoined and the blade is whole, but it cannot see battle until you have tempered it. That jagged saronite edge is brittle and will shatter the moment it strikes anything.

Deep in Icecrown Citadel's Forge of Souls is a place where the blade can safely be tempered. Take Quel'Delar with you to the abode of the Overseer of Souls and look for the crucible. Plunge the blade into the crucible to temper it and bring it back to me."

So that BS excuse of Frostmourne not being able to reforged is exactly that, bullshit.

• Frostmourne is too iconic!

Hardly an argument when Ashbringer, Doomhammer and Felo'melorn are going to be in the game. Theres nothing really unique to Frostmourne that another weapon hasn't had. Frostmourne, Doomhammer, Felo'melorn and the Warglaives of Azzinoth were all used by playable characters in Warcraft 3, both Frostmourne and the Warglaives are wielded by the main antagonist of an expansion, and Doomhammer has more screen time than the loading screens do. The only thing more iconic about Frostmourne is that it was the only weapon among these that has been featured on expansion box art. Even that is no longer true since Illidan is front and center on Legion's box art with the Warglaives.

• Frost is already using those shards for their weapons so you can't reforge Frostmourne.

Due to having to repeatedly explain this, I am bolding this section to make it easier to read.

Except lore wise, that is a non-issue. There is only ONE Death Knight who is going to wield an artifact weapon. If that Death Knight happens to not craft Icebringer & Soulreaper, then those very shards go untouched as far as the lore is concerned.

The concept is that the player is the class leader and is the only one of their class wielding an artifact weapon. In a world where a Blood Death Knight is the class leader, Icebringer & Soulreaper do not exist since that Death Knight has Maw of the Damned and did not go Icecrown and forge Icebringer & Soulreaper. In a world where a Fire Mage is wielding Felo'melorn, Icebringer does not exist. In a world where a Paladin is wielding Ashbringer, the Holy and Prot artifacts do not exist. Your class will look to you as its leader because you solidify your leadership with your artifact. Having multiple artifacts is purely a gameplay mechanic so everyone can still play multiple specs. As far as the story is concerned, you have ONE artifact and that artifact happens to be whatever one your spec is using. YOUR story does not affect another Death Knight's story. YOU are the Hero. YOU are the class leader. YOU are the only Death Knight wielding an artifact. Seeing other Death Knights with an artifact is simply an effect of gameplay. It does not impact the story in any way, shape or form. This goes for all classes.

To quote Ion, the lead game designer of WoW

''(...) our world is in flames and we are struggling for survival in the face of the Legion threat that will overwhelm and destroy us if we don't stop it and the alliance and the horde will just not come together or work together in the ways that need to happen to overcome this threat. But instead its the classes for actually bend together to actually do that, whether it is ancient orders like the Silver Hand at Light's Hope Chapel or the Mages of Dalaran they are coming together, working together as a class to save the world and to do whats need to be done and of course they look at YOU as their Leader because YOU are the one who has just retrieved a fabled artifact of incomparable power, you are the wielder of Ashbringer, you are the wielder of Doomhammer, who else would lead them if not you?''

So this cements in the fact that the wielder of an artifact for your class is you and only you. Obviously you have no use for another specs's artifact as it is intended for that other spec. A Ret Paladin isn't going to go get a sword and a shield. What we he use them for? He already has the best possible Retribution weapon available. Similarly, why would a Blood Death Knight go and craft Icebringer & Soulreaper? He can't use them. Lorewise, your character has ONE artifact and nobody else has an artifact as Ion explicitly stated that you are leading your class because YOU have the artifact.

• Wielding Frostmourne would consume your soul and you would become the new Lich King.

Arthas surrendered his soul when he picked up Frostmourne to become a Death Knight. At the time, it was also linked to Ner'zhul.

Ner'zhul is gone, Arthas is gone, the Helm of Domination is currently occupying Bolvar's head and we are already Death Knights.

The souls that empowered Frostmourne are no longer present nor is the entity that controlled it. We used Shadowmourne without any issues, why would a depowered and reforged Frostmourne still try to consume our soul? Its an empty broken runeblade. At this point, its no more harmful to the wielder than any other runeblade in the lore. If we were to reforge it, it would simply be returned to a similar state to that of when Arthas originally found it, except there is nobody there to corrupt the wielder. Just Frostmourne itself.

There is no logical reason to assume that Frostmourne would be anything more than an extremely powerful runeblade in the hands of a Death Knight. Especially since its been broken and most likely lost any connection to the Helm. If it was still truly that potent, it should logically affect the Death Knight wielding Icebringer & Soulreaper.

Lastly, I have to mention Shadowmourne again. This weapon was specifically crafted to do exactly what Frostmourne is capable of and to be able to go toe to toe with it. If Shadowmourne wasn't in the same ballpark as Frostmourne, why even bother crafting it in the first place?

"These death knights insist that the Ashbringer and the skills of the Argent Crusaders, though potent, aren't enough to best Frostmourne alone. They swear that Darion Mograine has long been quietly aware of another legendary blade - one that could be the key to defeating the Lich King and cleansing Northrend... But it doesn't exist yet.

For the moment, the weapon is a formless idea, with no more killing power than an angry thought. When it is spoken of, it is spoken of quietly, and the Highlord has a habit of silencing those who discuss it in public.

But the hope of an artifact to rival Frostmourne is strong within the minds of the Ebon Blade. Just its name inspires the furnaces to burn late into the night, the bellows to pump air, and the darker half of the Verdict's smiths to swing their hammers until their fingers fail. While other craftsmen crafters lean over whetstones and gather pitted blades by the hundreds, these few dream of a single weapon to end the war for Northrend.

Shadowmourne... A great two-handed axe fit for a giant, born of sacred and corrupt powers, host of a thousand dead souls and able to be wielded only by the most stalwart armsmasters of Azeroth. Its creation seems nearly impossible; and yet, the rumors do not cease.

Some smiths claim that Shadowmourne must be nothing more than an ordinary axe, honed to unparalleled perfection, while others would shape it from a weapon of immense import in the world. Mograine, when he can be convinced to speak of it at all, is said to believe that only the hammer of Arthas himself will provide a worthy model - but such absurd ambition is just the beginning of Shadowmourne's creation.

To contain the energies that dance across its cold edges, Shadowmourne must be hewn from piles of impure Saronite: the hardened blood of the Old God, Yogg-Saron, treated only by master metal-shapers.

To fuel its power to kill, it is vital that Shadowmourne be drenched in the souls of the most potent servants of the Scourge as they are slain, one by one, with the unfinished blade.

To help break through the Lich King's armor, Shadowmourne is to be adorned with fragments of the Frozen Throne, originally crafted by Kil'jaeden out of ice from the Twisting Nether.

Only with these mighty components, it's said, can Shadowmourne be finished. And, yet, even if the axe could be completed, questions and fears remain. Is forging the souls of the deceased into a weapon treated with blood and the essence of the Twisting Nether truly any different from the crafting of the Scourge's runeblades?

Who is to say that the Lich King wouldn't simply annihilate - or control - the maker for their impudence in mimicking his most treasured possession? If Arthas, one of the most dedicated knights of his age, lost his humanity to the whispers of Frostmourne, might Shadowmourne bring the same doom and misery to the living as its sister blade?

Without knowing the answers to these questions, who would be bold enough to try and wield it?"

So here we have a weapon that is at the very least, in the same league as Frostmourne when Arthas initially claimed it, yet it didn't corrupt anyone. It was simply an extremely powerful runeblade that could absorb souls just like Frostmourne. Nothing more.

• Frostmourne is a Frost weapon

Not true exactly. Ironic because of its namesake, Frostmourne is an Unholy weapon if we go off of Warcraft III. The Lich King himself was mostly Unholy if you look at his skills from his boss fight. Excluding berserk and including Ice Orb, out of 17 abilities, 10 of them are Shadow damage which is what Unholy spells do. He also has Apocalypse and Death Coil, both obviously not Frost abilities. As just a Death Knight, his abilities were purely Unholy.

If Frostmourne granted him Frost abilities, surely he would have used them at some point during Warcraft III?

Now, as I previously stated, I do agree with most in the case of Frostmourne's visuals and overall feel leaning pretty exclusively to Frost, it is worth noting that despite its name, it provided Arthas with far more Unholy abilities than Frost abilities.

Next, does it truly matter? Each artifact has multiple variations and each variation has a handful of alternate colors to go along with the basic version you start with. A good example of this is Doomhammer. Take Thrall out of the equation and it really has nothing to do with Shamanism. Hell, what about Non Orc Shamans? Especially those of the Alliance. Doomhammer has the Frostwolf insignia branded onto it front and center and is an Orc family heirloom changing hands from one Horde Warrior Warchief to the next Horde Warchief who later embraced his Shamanism. That doesn't exactly scream "Dwarf/Draenei/Tauren/Troll Shaman".

Lastly, Unholy itself really has no visual color scheme. The abilities themselves are black, purple, theres also some red thrown in there with DnD. Death Coil is actually the only ability Unholy uses that is Green and Blood uses it as well. Unholy's color scheme is all over the place. The Unholy icons are what is mostly green.

This brings us to why Death Knights should get Frostmourne. Simple. There is no better weapon for Death Knights period. Spec is irrelevant in the case of Frostmourne. It is the weapon that granted us all of our abilities, all 3 specs trace their origins back to Frostmourne. We are runeblade wielding knights. Frostmourne is the runeblade to end all other runeblades. Retribution Paladins get the Retribution Paladin weapon. Enhance Shamans get the Enhance Shaman weapon. From a flavor standpoint, Icebringer & Soulreaper are highly disappointing compared to Ashbringer and Doomhammer, especially since there is no real reason for Death Knights not to have Frostmourne. Not every class has such an iconic weapon, but all of the classes that do should definitely get to use them. Not a watered down version of them.

Since I keep seeing this brought up, existing weapons will not be artifacts. Blizzard has stated this. That means Shadowmourne and definitely Corrupted Ashbringer are out. Also, despite having the name Shadowmourne, it still has the same exact visual theme as Frostmourne. Stop getting so hung up on the names and colors of the weapons.

I would gladly post this on the official forums if my account was active.

Update : I'm not going to entertain the idiots/trolls anymore. If I see a legitimate counter, I'll give it a proper response. Other than that, you won't see a reply from me because chances are, I've already covered it, you've proven that you either lack the required intelligence for a proper response, you're ignoring the facts/supporting evidence, or your point is factually incorrect/unsupported.

[Imnick]

My Death Knight isn't my main so I'm probably less invested than most who will read this topic, but I really can't bring myself to agree.
I mean, to me it's simple. Frostmourne is a runeblade covered in rime, which glows with blue mist, is festooned with icicles, and chills all it touches. Also it's literally called Frostmourne.
I just can't see that as an Unholy weapon, and I much prefer the flavour of reforging an evil weapon into a more usable form than just rebuilding it (especially because dual wielding is cool).

To be honest it's also pretty thin for a 2H sword (I mean, not for a real life one, but for a Warcraft one!), we could get something a lot beefier. And preferably, greener.

If any spec was going to get Frostmourne it would be, well, Frost. They sort of are getting it, in Dual Wield form.
One artifact being shared by two specs is boring. I want something cool and new for Unholy.

[GodEmperor]

Agree with pretty much everything in the OP.

Wielding Frostmourne would consume your soul and you would become the new Lich King.

This is the main argument I see people using. I'm sure with all the 'lore' that Blizzard has broken, surely they can break this one without much of a problem.

I main a DK, I don't care which spec. But one of the DK specs definitely deserves the Frostmourne or something exactly similar looking as the artifact just because it's the most iconic Death Knight Sword made and almost every other class gets their iconic already known weapons as artifact. Personally hope it's Unholy. Fuck that Soulrend crap.

And yes Lich King was very much Unholy. All his spells were Shadow themed and raising dead except for Remorseless Winter.

[Deleted]

I don't like Frostmourne for unholy. I want something sicker.

[Shibito]

U wont get it lol, its funny how people can become upset over anything these days.

[KevinLee487]

My Death Knight isn't my main so I'm probably less invested than most who will read this topic, but I really can't bring myself to agree.
I mean, to me it's simple. Frostmourne is a runeblade covered in rime, which glows with blue mist, is festooned with icicles, and chills all it touches. Also it's literally called Frostmourne.
I just can't see that as an Unholy weapon, and I much prefer the flavour of reforging an evil weapon into a more usable form than just rebuilding it (especially because dual wielding is cool).

To be honest it's also pretty thin for a 2H sword (I mean, not for a real life one, but for a Warcraft one!), we could get something a lot beefier. And preferably, greener.

If any spec was going to get Frostmourne it would be, well, Frost. They sort of are getting it, in Dual Wield form.
One artifact being shared by two specs is boring. I want something cool and new for Unholy.

Aside from its name, Frostmourne really doesn't actually have much to do with Frost. I mean, just look at the abilities that Arthas uses as a Death Knight and then later as the Lich King. They're overwhelmingly Unholy in nature. Defile, Infest, Necrotic Plague, Pain & Suffering, Apocalypse, Soul Reaper, Death Coil, Raise Dead, Ragins Spirit, and Fury of the Frostmourne(which ironic to its name, does Shadow damage). The only thing Frosty that we really see Arthas do is the Ice Orb, Freezing Tirion in a block of ice, and Remorseless Winter.

Its also bigger than you think if you see it on a normal character (check it out on Wowhead), it looks so tiny because Arthas's model is beefy as hell. Granted, its one of the smaller 2h models in the game, its a hell of a lot bigger than some of the 2h weapons we saw in WoD.

Icebringer & Soulreaper isn't anywhere close to the same. The only similarity they have is the skull on the hilt which Shadowmourne had as well.

But thank you for sharing your opinion either way.

U wont get it lol, its funny how people can become upset over anything these days.

How constructive to the topic at hand.

[scormac]

My vote still goes to an awesome scythe for unholy but if we get frostmourne you won't hear me complain don't think we will though
your point about there only being 1 DK that is getting an artifact (lorewise or something) you can also switch specs i don't think they will make you do the same artifact quest line (collecting shards of frostmourne) twice.

[Imnick]

Gul'Dan didn't forge Frostmourne.

[Mectrid]

I do think that for someone without an active account you seem to have a lot of issues with Unholy NOT getting Frostmurne as their artifact weapon.

I don't mind one bit, I'm happy Frost gets the shards of Frostmourne and turns it into two blades, that sounds cool to me and it sounds reasonable.

Just fixing it however? Eh, a little boring if I say so myself, SURE it is a great weapon but it does have a lot of deep lore surrounding it as to why we may not just want to mend it, I mean the thing used to suck up peoples souls and there's a lot of evil associated with it so I doubt major lore characters even of the Death Knight creed will want it being fixed and ran around Azeroth again. (Repurposed however, sure that's good as it's still not the actual Frostmourne, wielded by the Lich King, a weapon that would strike fear into any citizen that saw it being run through Stormwind..)

I would like a new cool weapon for unholy, heck for all we know the story and lore of whatever comes their way may be ten times more awesome than just revisiting ICC and forging up some broken sword shards. What if we have to get a bone of Galakrond and infuse it's essence into our own runeblade that we started the DK zone with or something, I'd be like crazy all about that quest chain.

As for the model, it's clearly a WIP compared to the actual released stuff, for starters look at just how many Ashbringer models there are and the amazingness of them all compared to this Soulrend, it is definitely in need of a touch up based on textures alone, so I reckon we should just bide our time and see what happens. I'm all for more lore, and 2 DKs having a similar: 'Go back to Icecrown, find broken sword, make new weapons' would in my opinion be worse than giving us something new, purely because it'd be slack from Blizz to do it that way.

[Charge me Doctor]

Frostmourne is ded, Frostmourne is no mo. It was shattered, why threads like this keep popping up?

But that aside, even the guy who created Frostmourne is long time dead, and even his Draenor version dead too, how are you going to reforge Frostmourne without nerzhul? It still won't be Frostmourne.

And even if you reforge remains of Frostmourne into something - why call it Frostmourne? What's the reason? And why even bother reforging it, is there nothing Unholy DK can't tap into to get their powerful weapon?

- - - Updated - - -

Gul'Dan didn't forge Frostmourne.

All orks look alike to me

[Imnick]

But that aside, even the guy who created Frostmourne is long time dead, and even his Draenor version dead too, how are you going to reforge Frostmourne without nerzhul? It still won't be Frostmourne

Ner'Zhul didn't forge Frostmourne either. It was made by the Nathrezim (Dread Lords), who are demons.
This is, coincidentally, why it's not so weird that the Blood axe is also nicked from demons.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Retcon_2#Frostmourne

Where the sword and armour actually came from has always been a weird bit of lore though.

[Charge me Doctor]

Ner'Zhul didn't forge Frostmourne either. It was made by the Nathrezim (Dread Lords), who are demons.
This is, coincidentally, why it's not so weird that the Blood axe is also nicked from demons.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Retcon_2#Frostmourne

Where the sword and armour actually came from has always been a weird bit of lore though.

That's interesting, but i still don't get obsession of some people to get a weapon called Frostmourne as an artifact for their Unholy DKs

[Deleted]

Frostmourne has the power to absorb souls that is slays including your own.

It doesnt really make sense that a PC should have it only to loose that character?

You could say "well obviously we arent reforging the exact same weapon, and we cant imbue it with soul stealing powers". Fine. Then its not frostmourne.

/thread

[Elhaym]

I'd honestly be bored with frostmourne.

I'm sure plenty of retadins are happy to get ashbringer, but I'm happier with entirely new weapons.

[Deleted]

I'd honestly be bored with frostmourne.

I'm sure plenty of retadins are happy to get ashbringer, but I'm happier with entirely new weapons.

You mean new models right?

Cus the weapons all exist in lore

[arcaneshot]

Frostmourne has the power to absorb souls that is slays including your own.

It doesnt really make sense that a PC should have it only to loose that character?

You could say "well obviously we arent reforging the exact same weapon, and we cant imbue it with soul stealing powers". Fine. Then its not frostmourne.

Honestly I don't understand why people just don't get this. You strip out everything malignant about Frostmourne and it's just not Frostmourne anymore.

You'd essentially be like a cosplayer who was pretending they had the "real" Frostmourne.

[Galathir]

• Frostmourne is a Frost weapon

Not true exactly. Frostmourne is an Unholy weapon if we go off of Warcraft III. The Lich King himself was mostly Unholy if you look at his skills from his boss fight. Excluding berserk and including Ice Orb, out of 17 abilities, 10 of them are Shadow damage. He also has Apocalypse and Death Coil, both obviously not Frost abilities. As just a Death Knight, his abilities were purely Unholy.

If Frostmourne granted him Frost abilities, surely he would have used them at some point during Warcraft III?

You are forgetting the color scheme. Unfortunately it's as simple as that. Blood gets a red axe. Frost gets two blueish grey swords. Unholy will get a green one.
Screw what the players want, Blizzard is playing color by numbers.

- - - Updated - - -

Frostmourne has the power to absorb souls that is slays including your own.

It doesnt really make sense that a PC should have it only to loose that character?

You could say "well obviously we arent reforging the exact same weapon, and we cant imbue it with soul stealing powers". Fine. Then its not frostmourne.

/thread

Blizzard would have a million ways to fix that lorewise because gameplay > lore. They just don't want to.
We ourselves crafted Shadowmourne to be equal in abilities to Frostmourne (including the soul sucking part), it just lacks Ner'zhul's corruption. It would be easy to include a quest to cleanse the broken sword. That's what we probably will have to do with the onehanders anyway.

[KevinLee487]

I do think that for someone without an active account you seem to have a lot of issues with Unholy NOT getting Frostmurne as their artifact weapon.

What does my account being new have to do with anything?

I mean the thing used to suck up peoples souls and there's a lot of evil associated with it so I doubt major lore characters even of the Death Knight creed will want it being fixed and ran around Azeroth again.

Thats exactly what Shadowmourne was and it wasn't a problem.

As for the model, it's clearly a WIP compared to the actual released stuff

I don't think so, every single other weapon we have seen has either been concept art or a completed model. It really looks like a extra zoomed in picture of a 1h sword. Even then, it still looks like crap compared to everything else.

Frostmourne is ded, Frostmourne is no mo. It was shattered, why threads like this keep popping up?

Because thats a poor argument and you know it. Frostmourne being broken sure isn't stopping Death Knights from using its shards to forge weapons. Logically the rest of the blade could be reforged.

Frostmourne has the power to absorb souls that is slays including your own.

It doesnt really make sense that a PC should have it only to loose that character?

You could say "well obviously we arent reforging the exact same weapon, and we cant imbue it with soul stealing powers". Fine. Then its not frostmourne.

/thread

Except Shadowmourne had that same exact power. We used it just fine against Arthas.

[Imnick]

You mean new models right?

Cus the weapons all exist in lore

Most of the artifacts we've been shown, apart from Ashbringer, are entirely new.
They are given lore that places them into the history of WoW, but that lore didn't exist prior to now.

[NuLogic]

Huge ass rune scythe would be cool.