Do you own any guns?

[Orange Joe]

That's great, I am glad you are a responsible gun owner.

I'm not sure why you would think he isn't. 90% of gun owners are safe responsible owners. If they weren't you would be hearing about it a LOT more in the news.

[Dystemper]

I'm not sure why you would think he isn't. 90% of gun owners are safe responsible owners. If they weren't you would be hearing about it a LOT more in the news.

Many hoplophobes have it in ther heads that if you own guns, your a dangerous person with mental problems. That is of course until they are threatened or their life is in danger, then they wish they had one. ( not saying Daelak is a Hoplophobe, but there are more then a few on here)

[Orange Joe]

Many hoplophobes have it in ther heads that if you own guns, your a dangerous person with mental problems. That is of course until they are threatened or their life is in danger, then they wish they had one. ( not saying Daelak is a Hoplophobe, but there are more then a few on here)

I know, I love how they try to make it out as the majority of gun owners when it's actually less than 1%.

[Hooked]

Many hoplophobes have it in ther heads that if you own guns, your a dangerous person with mental problems. That is of course until they are threatened or their life is in danger, then they wish they had one. ( not saying Daelak is a Hoplophobe, but there are more then a few on here)

The same type of people protest police and are the first ones to scream for police to help them when they find themselves a victim of random crime.

[Dystemper]

http://www.calgunlaws.com/myths-of-european-gun-laws/

EUROPEAN GUN LAWS

Now it is true that European gun laws are often different from ours. This is largely because they aim to stem political violence, not apolitical gun crime. But they are not generally more restrictive. Only sheer ignorance of Europe explains anti-gun claims that European gun laws are much more restrictive than ours and that those laws cause Europe to have much less violent crime.

The falsity of such claims appears in the record of the Supreme Court case that struck down Washington D.C.’s ban on handguns or and on keeping any gun loaded for self defense (Heller). An amicus brief filed there by dozens of European professors said their various lands’ laws were far less restrictive of gun ownership than D.C. [Brief of Amicus Curiae International Scholars in Support of the Respondent; District of Columbia v. Heller (2008) (No. 07-290), 2008 WL 466090].

Moreover European gun laws generally allow far more extensive gun use against crime than American law does. Let me begin with two examples of that point.

SHOOTING THIEVES

A Columbia Law School professor uses a German case to illustrate how European law greatly differs from American. In the 1920s a German farmer was tried for shooing starving children who were stealing from his orchard. Now under our law, which is based on what is deemed reasonable, the farmer was clearly guilty. But he was exonerated by the German court because European law follows the thought of Immanuel Kant: There is the Right and there is the Wrong – and never need the Right yield to the Wrong! The farmer is in the Right and the starving children are in the Wrong. So if the only way to stop their thefts is to shoot them, then shoot them he may.

A later German statute overturned this – but in a way that reinforces it. The statute only overrules the case if children are shot. But the farmer may shoot if an adult steals his fruit.

SHOOTING A RETREATING RAPIST

The following is not an actual case but a hypothetical I constructed to illustrate the difference of Anglo-American law from more gun-friendly European law. HYPOTHETICAL: A rapist attacks a woman but retreats when she draws a gun from her purse. The woman, frightened and outraged, shoots him anyway. Under our law this is called “imperfect self-defense.” It is manslaughter (not murder) if the rapist dies; assault with a deadly weapon if he does not.

But under Austrian, Dutch, French, German and Italian law the result is entirely different. If she shot him from “outrage” (i.e., vigilantism) at his attack the court can just acquit her.

BUYING/OWNING GUNS – LAW JUST AS PERMISSIVE AS OURS

As to buying and owning guns, European laws are generally as permissive as American. It is true that you need a special permit to buy a 9 mm. handgun in many European nations. What ignorant American gun prohibitionists don’t understand is that this is a special control on “military-caliber weapons.” Similar controls ban military caliber rifles without special permission. But there is no restriction on other rifles or on handguns in, for instance, .380, .38 Super, 9mm Ultra and many more powerful handguns e.g., any of the magnums or .40 S&W, .45 auto, .45 Long Colt, .454 Casull, .460 S&W Magnum, 475 Linebaugh, .480, .500 and other powerful handguns.

ITALY – GUN LAWS

Unlike residents of New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts or California, law abiding responsible Italians can buy any revolver or semi-auto they want. No permit is required nor is there any waiting period. Though the handgun must be registered, buying it involves less fuss and red tape than Americans face even in Texas.

AUSTRIA – GUN LAWS

Austrians require permits for semi-automatic pistols but not to buy a revolver. Moreover law abiding responsible adults have a specific legal right to a permit for a semi-automatic pistol for home defense.

AUSTRIAN CARRY PERMITS

Permits to carry are much more available to law abiding Austrians than to Americans in New York, Massachusetts or California. For a population of over 37 million, California has about 40,000 carry permits. For its population of around seven million, Austria has over 200,000 carry permits.

FRANCE, GERMANY – GUN LAWS

In France and Germany permits (easily available to responsible adult householders) are required to possess a handgun of modern design. But if you are satisfied with a cowboy-style gun, France requires no permit at all to buy a newly manufactured revolver of pre-1895 design.

Consistent with its focus on political crime, European law precludes stockpiling guns. You might be able to own multiple guns in different calibers, but not 10 or 20 in the same caliber.

There are no magazine size restrictions on semi-autos.

CRIME RATES

Nine European nations have fewer than 5,000 guns per 100,000 population. Seven have more than three times as many guns per 100,000 population. The nine nations’ violent crime situation is disappointing, even shockingly contrary to the myth that restricting guns diminishes murder. Their murder rates are three times higher than those of the seven high gun ownership nations!

We collected many examples: Norway has far and away Western Europe’s highest household gun ownership (32% of households), but also its lowest murder rate. Holland has the lowest gun ownership in Western Europe (1.9%), and Sweden lies midway between (15.1). Yet the Dutch murder rate is half again higher than the Norwegian, and the Swedish rate is even higher yet, though only slightly. Greece has over twice the per capita gun ownership of the Czech Republic, yet gun murder is much lower in Greece and the Greek murder rate with all weapons is also lower. Though Spain has over 12 times more gun ownership than Poland, the latter has almost a third more gun murder, and its overall murder rate is almost
twice Spain’s. Poor Finland: it has 14 times more of these evil guns than its neighbor Estonia. Yet Estonia’s gun murder and overall murder rates are about seven times higher than Finland’s.

The nations of Western Europe and Scandinavia – whose gun laws are often less restrictive than American — have very low murder rates. But not the nations that ban guns. For instance:

RUSSIA

Russia banned handguns in 1929 and also strictly controls long guns. Its murder rates and those of gun banning former Soviet possessions and satellites in Europe are much higher than American. (U.S. – fewer than 5 murders per 100,000 population; Russia – more than 20 murders per 100,000 population.)

But yes, if your only concern is eliminating GUN murder, Russia has virtually done that – despite having an overall murder rate far exceeding the U.S. and most of the rest of Europe. So what the Russian experience proves is that outlawing handguns does nothing to prevent murder.

Russia’s handgun ban succeeded largely because Russians are too poor to afford them. But Russia also has a unique policy. It chose for military and police guns and ammunition that is unique, so even if a Russian soldier smuggled a foreign gun home he could not find ammo there.

ENGLAND

What about ultra-restrictive England where all legally owner handguns were confiscated in 1997? Its murder rate is the highest in Western Europe and English violent crime overall is much higher than in the U.S. England annually has over 45,000 violent crimes per 100,000 population while the US has 33,600. For robberies the English rate is 2000 per 100,000 population compared to 600 for the US. The English rate for rape is 6100 per 100,000 people — nearly three times higher than the US rate.

In the late 1990s hundreds of thousands of English handguns and many long guns were confiscated from owners law abiding enough to turn them in. Yet today English news media headline violent crime in the kind of doleful, melodramatic reports that for so long characterized American news reporting. The 2002 report of England’s National Crime Intelligence Service lamented, that though “Britain has some of the strictest gun laws in the world [i]t appears that anyone who wishes to obtain a firearm [illegally] will have little difficulty in doing so.”

Also in 2002 Harvard University Press published Professor Joyce Lee Malcolm’s GUNS AND VIOLENCE: THE ENGLISH EXPERIENCE which summarizes the failure of English gun banning. In 1900 England had no gun control and a violence rate among the lowest in the world. After a century of ever more gun restriction “areas in England, America and Switzerland with the highest rates of gun ownership were in fact those with the lowest rates of violence.”

Concomitant is a federally sponsored study of all available information on gun controls was published. Though its authors were originally anti-gun, in researching the matter they found: “There is no evidence anywhere to show that reducing the availability of firearms in general likewise reduces their availability to persons with criminal intent or that persons with criminal intent would not be able to arm themselves under any set of general restrictions on firearms.” [James. D. Wright, Peter Rossi & Kathleen Daly, UNDER THE GUN: WEAPONS, CRIME AND VIOLENCE IN THE UNITED STATES 138].

[Schuetze]

http://www.calgunlaws.com/myths-of-european-gun-laws/

EUROPEAN GUN LAWS

Now it is true that European gun laws are often different from ours. This is largely because they aim to stem political violence, not apolitical gun crime. But they are not generally more restrictive. Only sheer ignorance of Europe explains anti-gun claims that European gun laws are much more restrictive than ours and that those laws cause Europe to have much less violent crime.

The falsity of such claims appears in the record of the Supreme Court case that struck down Washington D.C.’s ban on handguns or and on keeping any gun loaded for self defense (Heller). An amicus brief filed there by dozens of European professors said their various lands’ laws were far less restrictive of gun ownership than D.C. [Brief of Amicus Curiae International Scholars in Support of the Respondent; District of Columbia v. Heller (2008) (No. 07-290), 2008 WL 466090].

Moreover European gun laws generally allow far more extensive gun use against crime than American law does. Let me begin with two examples of that point.

SHOOTING THIEVES

A Columbia Law School professor uses a German case to illustrate how European law greatly differs from American. In the 1920s a German farmer was tried for shooing starving children who were stealing from his orchard. Now under our law, which is based on what is deemed reasonable, the farmer was clearly guilty. But he was exonerated by the German court because European law follows the thought of Immanuel Kant: There is the Right and there is the Wrong – and never need the Right yield to the Wrong! The farmer is in the Right and the starving children are in the Wrong. So if the only way to stop their thefts is to shoot them, then shoot them he may.

A later German statute overturned this – but in a way that reinforces it. The statute only overrules the case if children are shot. But the farmer may shoot if an adult steals his fruit.

SHOOTING A RETREATING RAPIST

The following is not an actual case but a hypothetical I constructed to illustrate the difference of Anglo-American law from more gun-friendly European law. HYPOTHETICAL: A rapist attacks a woman but retreats when she draws a gun from her purse. The woman, frightened and outraged, shoots him anyway. Under our law this is called “imperfect self-defense.” It is manslaughter (not murder) if the rapist dies; assault with a deadly weapon if he does not.

But under Austrian, Dutch, French, German and Italian law the result is entirely different. If she shot him from “outrage” (i.e., vigilantism) at his attack the court can just acquit her.

BUYING/OWNING GUNS – LAW JUST AS PERMISSIVE AS OURS

As to buying and owning guns, European laws are generally as permissive as American. It is true that you need a special permit to buy a 9 mm. handgun in many European nations. What ignorant American gun prohibitionists don’t understand is that this is a special control on “military-caliber weapons.” Similar controls ban military caliber rifles without special permission. But there is no restriction on other rifles or on handguns in, for instance, .380, .38 Super, 9mm Ultra and many more powerful handguns e.g., any of the magnums or .40 S&W, .45 auto, .45 Long Colt, .454 Casull, .460 S&W Magnum, 475 Linebaugh, .480, .500 and other powerful handguns.

ITALY – GUN LAWS

Unlike residents of New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts or California, law abiding responsible Italians can buy any revolver or semi-auto they want. No permit is required nor is there any waiting period. Though the handgun must be registered, buying it involves less fuss and red tape than Americans face even in Texas.

AUSTRIA – GUN LAWS

Austrians require permits for semi-automatic pistols but not to buy a revolver. Moreover law abiding responsible adults have a specific legal right to a permit for a semi-automatic pistol for home defense.

AUSTRIAN CARRY PERMITS

Permits to carry are much more available to law abiding Austrians than to Americans in New York, Massachusetts or California. For a population of over 37 million, California has about 40,000 carry permits. For its population of around seven million, Austria has over 200,000 carry permits.

FRANCE, GERMANY – GUN LAWS

In France and Germany permits (easily available to responsible adult householders) are required to possess a handgun of modern design. But if you are satisfied with a cowboy-style gun, France requires no permit at all to buy a newly manufactured revolver of pre-1895 design.

Consistent with its focus on political crime, European law precludes stockpiling guns. You might be able to own multiple guns in different calibers, but not 10 or 20 in the same caliber.

There are no magazine size restrictions on semi-autos.

CRIME RATES

Nine European nations have fewer than 5,000 guns per 100,000 population. Seven have more than three times as many guns per 100,000 population. The nine nations’ violent crime situation is disappointing, even shockingly contrary to the myth that restricting guns diminishes murder. Their murder rates are three times higher than those of the seven high gun ownership nations!

We collected many examples: Norway has far and away Western Europe’s highest household gun ownership (32% of households), but also its lowest murder rate. Holland has the lowest gun ownership in Western Europe (1.9%), and Sweden lies midway between (15.1). Yet the Dutch murder rate is half again higher than the Norwegian, and the Swedish rate is even higher yet, though only slightly. Greece has over twice the per capita gun ownership of the Czech Republic, yet gun murder is much lower in Greece and the Greek murder rate with all weapons is also lower. Though Spain has over 12 times more gun ownership than Poland, the latter has almost a third more gun murder, and its overall murder rate is almost
twice Spain’s. Poor Finland: it has 14 times more of these evil guns than its neighbor Estonia. Yet Estonia’s gun murder and overall murder rates are about seven times higher than Finland’s.

The nations of Western Europe and Scandinavia – whose gun laws are often less restrictive than American — have very low murder rates. But not the nations that ban guns. For instance:

RUSSIA

Russia banned handguns in 1929 and also strictly controls long guns. Its murder rates and those of gun banning former Soviet possessions and satellites in Europe are much higher than American. (U.S. – fewer than 5 murders per 100,000 population; Russia – more than 20 murders per 100,000 population.)

But yes, if your only concern is eliminating GUN murder, Russia has virtually done that – despite having an overall murder rate far exceeding the U.S. and most of the rest of Europe. So what the Russian experience proves is that outlawing handguns does nothing to prevent murder.

Russia’s handgun ban succeeded largely because Russians are too poor to afford them. But Russia also has a unique policy. It chose for military and police guns and ammunition that is unique, so even if a Russian soldier smuggled a foreign gun home he could not find ammo there.

ENGLAND

What about ultra-restrictive England where all legally owner handguns were confiscated in 1997? Its murder rate is the highest in Western Europe and English violent crime overall is much higher than in the U.S. England annually has over 45,000 violent crimes per 100,000 population while the US has 33,600. For robberies the English rate is 2000 per 100,000 population compared to 600 for the US. The English rate for rape is 6100 per 100,000 people — nearly three times higher than the US rate.

In the late 1990s hundreds of thousands of English handguns and many long guns were confiscated from owners law abiding enough to turn them in. Yet today English news media headline violent crime in the kind of doleful, melodramatic reports that for so long characterized American news reporting. The 2002 report of England’s National Crime Intelligence Service lamented, that though “Britain has some of the strictest gun laws in the world [i]t appears that anyone who wishes to obtain a firearm [illegally] will have little difficulty in doing so.”

Also in 2002 Harvard University Press published Professor Joyce Lee Malcolm’s GUNS AND VIOLENCE: THE ENGLISH EXPERIENCE which summarizes the failure of English gun banning. In 1900 England had no gun control and a violence rate among the lowest in the world. After a century of ever more gun restriction “areas in England, America and Switzerland with the highest rates of gun ownership were in fact those with the lowest rates of violence.”

Concomitant is a federally sponsored study of all available information on gun controls was published. Though its authors were originally anti-gun, in researching the matter they found: “There is no evidence anywhere to show that reducing the availability of firearms in general likewise reduces their availability to persons with criminal intent or that persons with criminal intent would not be able to arm themselves under any set of general restrictions on firearms.” [James. D. Wright, Peter Rossi & Kathleen Daly, UNDER THE GUN: WEAPONS, CRIME AND VIOLENCE IN THE UNITED STATES 138].

I disagree with this article.

Gun laws are not as permissive in Europe as they are in the USA. They make it appear as if the permit to get those guns is something which can be easily obtained, which is not the case.

In most European countries you have to pass a ton of tests and bureaucracy just to own a simple double barrel shotgun!

[Roxinius]

Currently own 3 2 22LR rifles one modled after a 416 the 2nd modeled after an mp5 and i have my Sig P229 Elite Dark in 9mm as my carry weapon which is open carried which is permitted by pa state law

[Zandro]

I currently own a Springfield XD Tactical 9mm handgun for everyday carry, a Springfield XDs 9mm for conceal carry, and a Browning Shotgun for hunting and home protection. I love target shooting, taking all sorts of gun courses to help with shooting on the move, tactical shoot, defensive shooting... shooting is just a blast! I also like to hunt - mostly bird - always eating what I shoot, never just killing for fun.

[zenkai]

Don't own one, used plenty of them growing up in the country though. I would own one but I don't find shooting fun and I don't feel I need one for protection, it also doesn't bother me that people own them.

[Daelak]

Many hoplophobes have it in ther heads that if you own guns, your a dangerous person with mental problems. That is of course until they are threatened or their life is in danger, then they wish they had one. ( not saying Daelak is a Hoplophobe, but there are more then a few on here)

Look up how many firearms are stolen from "responsible gun owners".

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I know, I love how they try to make it out as the majority of gun owners when it's actually less than 1%.

Bullshit. Due to the proliferation of firearms in this country, there is no way even the majority all of the hundreds of millions of firearms in circulation are ever secure.

[TwoNineMarine]

Look up how many firearms are stolen from "responsible gun owners".

- - - Updated - - -



Bullshit. Due to the proliferation of firearms in this country, there is no way even the majority all of the hundreds of millions of firearms in circulation are ever secure.

So because a gun owner keeps a pistol out for self defense and it gets stolen he is a bad guy?

Why not focus on the people stealing the weapons?

[Daelak]

So because a gun owner keeps a pistol out for self defense and it gets stolen he is a bad guy?

Why not focus on the people stealing the weapons?

If he keeps it for self defense he must keep it on his person, and if sleeping, should be within arm distance. You are actually the model that the gun lobby should use for responsible gun ownership.

[Lightwysh]

Own multiple, primarily for hobby/enthusiast target shooting. I have a pistol for home defense, it's locked in its own bedside biometric safe. I have multiple other pistols for nostalgic purposes, a 1911, single action revolver, and a target 22lr. As for rifles, 3x22lr target rifles, a 30-06 hunting/long range target rifle and a 1943 Yugoslavian SKS(because fun). I also have a 12g pump that is primarily for target shooting. All my guns are cased and locked in a safe that only I have a key for. I try to keep on hand 500-1000rds of each caliber. This allows me to pick up and go to the range whenever I want without having to track down specific ammo on a moments notice.

My child knows how to use each one proficiently and safely. Just as I was taught how to handle a firearm safely. I felt it was good for her to know the same incase she was ever in a situation where there was an unsecured firearm, she could handle it safely and responsibly.

My wife, while she doesn't enjoy target shooting, too loud/too much recoil, knows how to use them as well. I taught her for the same safety reasons.

None of my guns has ever hurt anyone, I doubt any ever will. They are not toys, they are not seen as cool or trendy, they are tools for recreation and if needed for protection and hunting.

[TwoNineMarine]

If he keeps it for self defense he must keep it on his person, and if sleeping, should be within arm distance. You are actually the model that the gun lobby should use for responsible gun ownership.

And I would agree. But people make gun owners out to be terrible people for leaving weapons on the coffee table next to em.

Just the way I look at it.

[Roxinius]

And I would agree. But people make gun owners out to be terrible people for leaving weapons on the coffee table next to em.

Just the way I look at it.

my sig sits on the nightstand everynight with one in the chamber

[TwoNineMarine]

my sig sits on the nightstand everynight with one in the chamber

Once my boys are out of the house I'll do that too

Did it before I had my midgets.

[Roxinius]

Once my boys are out of the house I'll do that too

Did it before I had my midgets.

i've been quite lucky in my adventures i havent had any kids yet but even when i was younger my father taught me gun safety and how and when to handle one when i was younger

[Dystemper]

I have no kids, so a firearm is readily at hand. I will carry even while at home because out in the rural area I live in, thugs have got the idea that country homes are great for home invasions since police response is measured by a half hour or more. We also have a issue with coyotes , racoons and sometimes bears.

[TwoNineMarine]

i've been quite lucky in my adventures i havent had any kids yet but even when i was younger my father taught me gun safety and how and when to handle one when i was younger

Oh I'll be doing the same with my boys here soon actually. But boys will be boys and I don't want them to grab it and mess with it.

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I have no kids, so a firearm is readily at hand. I will carry even while at home because out in the rural area I live in, thugs have got the idea that country homes are great for home invasions since police response is measured by a half hour or more. We also have a issue with coyotes , racoons and sometimes bears.

Gotta love a shotty for that stuff.

My father in law has taken out two oppossums in as many days. Damn things trying to get our chickens.

[Realsykes]

So because a gun owner keeps a pistol out for self defense and it gets stolen he is a bad guy?

Why not focus on the people stealing the weapons?

He's not exactly helping the situation, and he's a retard, but there's always a few turds in the bunch yknow.